Another NBA player

[Reality]

So you are all for Chris Webber getting 18 mil a year and bringing down the 6ers.
Fine. Why disagee with my stance that he (and A.I.) could easily "live" on less and thereby greaten the 6ers chances of getting other good players to make a title run.

What does this scenario have to do with all the great players joining the elite teams to rekindle the playoff excitement of yore.  And if you ask me, playoffs are plenty exciting today as they ever were.  

 

Glad you asked.

Lets say player Wants To Title is looking to hook up with the 76ers.
He can't because Webber and AI and now Dalembert have 40 zillion dollars tied up in cap.  

Lets say the Earth stops, Webber decides his injury makes him no where near the player he was in the Kings championship year.  AI decides he really never will get to the finals again.  Dalembert realizes its unreal how much he is getting just because he is 7 feet tall in 2005 and has some center skills.  All three of them decide a TEAM title would be really cool.  They want to sign Skandery Skander, an upstart 3rd year point guard who lead the Missouri Valley Conference 4 years in a row in assists with zero turnovers for the entire 4 years.  He also has mad jumps, snaps down 7 boards a game from the pg spot.  He wants to become a 6er, but his paltry 4 million a year salary would put the Sixers over the cap.  

So, in what appears to be an act of God but is not, Skander tells his agent he will take 3 million while the Big 3 overpaids say they will take a cut to get Skandery on the team.  The Sixers lose in the Finals in 7 games to the Spurs, but Philly and all "real" NBA fans are treated to yet another fabulous Finals since Reality took over as commisioner in 2004.

[Laker Fan]

Bandwagon all you want little boy, I've got grey hairs that have been in SoCal longer than you've been alive. BTW, nice use of profanity in your posts, and the challenge to gamble, nice touch as well, look your fly is down, now we see what you're all about.

[Derek Bodner]

No need to get into personal attacks laker fan.  Calm down.

So you are all for Chris Webber getting 18 mil a year and bringing down the 6ers.

First of all, Chris Webber isn't bringing down the Sixers.  Chris Webber could have a minimum contract and the Sixers would still be over the cap.

Allen Iverson AND Chris Webber could have a minimum salary and the Sixers would be over the cap.

Has Tim Duncan decided to cut his salary in half for the improvement of the team?  Manu Gnobili giving back his salary?

That's an unrealistic expectation to have players give up their earnings because you want a title.  I know we all like to think this is more than an employment, but it's not.

Well of people have a right to try to get rich.  Rich people have a right to get wealthy.  That's capitalism.

[Reality]

No need to get into personal attacks laker fan.  Calm down.

So you are all for Chris Webber getting 18 mil a year and bringing down the 6ers.

First of all, Chris Webber isn't bringing down the Sixers.  Chris Webber could have a minimum contract and the Sixers would still be over the cap.

Allen Iverson AND Chris Webber could have a minimum salary and the Sixers would be over the cap.

Has Tim Duncan decided to cut his salary in half for the improvement of the team?  Manu Gnobili giving back his salary?

That's an unrealistic expectation to have players give up their earnings because you want a title.  I know we all like to think this is more than an employment, but it's not.

Well of people have a right to try to get rich.  Rich people have a right to get wealthy.  That's capitalism.

dabods that they have the right to pursue money above title is no doubt.  That most all choose to exercise that right in pursuit money over title is  sad to me.

On the positive side, those few players who have taken less in pursuit of a title, my compliments and it shows it can be done.  To what degree?  Again, 1986 Celts perhaps the best team of all time with not one but two of what I am advocating/promoting.  Billy W and Jerry Sichting.  Payton and Malone certainly helped LA in 03-04.  Alas no one stepped up to likewise help the Spurs that year.

Webber most certainly is a factor in the downing of Philly.  18 mil a year when realistically he is worth 5 in his present injured condition?  If Dlmbrt and AI would get on the title board, resulting in more freed up money, they could land someone good.  Like Skandery Skander from Missouri Valley to run the point.  So that they could get a title, not just Joe Fan and I enjoying watching a great matchup.

Tim Dunker and Manu taking less to land a player?  I certainly hope they will when it comes to that.  But I agree, in todays NBA its going to continue to be the exception rather then the norm.

Joe V "I can agree with Reality on one thing - the 80's teams were deeper, with star level role-players. And it made for great match-ups."    And Joe V made the one and only point i want everyone to get.  Great match ups have been and might continue to be the result.  With their megamillions in salary today, many players could pursue title over more excess bling.  Hey the Euro guard just did it in signing with the Pacers.

Contraction to 18 teams would be oh so sweet, but we all know that will not happen.

Players using their free will to help win a title?  That might happen some more.

 

[Guest]

Reality,

      Just so you know, Skandery Skander is actually better suited at the 2 guard, and nowhere *NEAR* the leader in assists in ANY league.  He is, however, a very proficient scorer.

                                                  Joe
 

[Guest_Joe_Vancil]

Reality,

If they would agree to take less, it would lessen the cap now wouldn't it?

Nope.  Wouldn't lessen the cap a single bit.  The cap is 51% of BRI.

Wouldn't change overall player salaries, either.  They're to be 58% of BRI.  Escrow payments make sure they don't go over that amount.

And before you say, "Well, it means they would only make 57% of BRI," no, it doesn't.  The players are guaranteed 58%.  And even if they accepted 57%, that 1% simply goes into the owner's pockets.

 

[Reality]

I rest my case.

Any reason to think Phx with Stoudamire, Nash, Marion back will not make another Pacific run?  But Joe Johnson wants to bail to the Hawks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...marc&id=2120105

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/stor...marc&id=2120960

Joe Johnson turning down 50 mil to instead sign with the Hawks for 70 mil.

The dollar numbers are staggering.  Think he could feed his family on 50 mil?  It aint about the title.  Not one bit. :nonono:

[Guest_Randy]

Actually, Reality, this doesn't even support you case -- quite the opposite (of course, JJ has been quoted with contradictory statements so don't believe that he is still going to the Hawks).  Read the entire article and you learn that JJ would rather be THE man on a team than play 4th wheel -- he would almost rather go to a horrible team ('cause I don't think he is going to pass up the extra money) and be "the man" than stay on a great team and be the 4th option.  This is quite the opposite of what your philosophy.

Here, IMO, are what NBA stars are looking for:

1)  Money

2)  Playing time (status goes along with that too - like being a major option, etc.)

3)  Winning a championship

Most stars aren't going to give up BOTH money and playing time (again, being a major option) to win a championship.  Perfect examples in Malone and GP -- both came in giving up money but they both had guarantees that they would be major players for the Lakers (both would start, etc.).  You aren't going to see many players like SAR give up both money and playing time -- and if they can't start and play starter minutes -- unless they are at the end of their career, you just won't see that kind of thing happening.  And I don't blame them for it!  I would jump on the bandwagon of some team just to be handed a championship ring -- although there are some who don't mind that sort of thing!

[Joe Vancil]

Someone please slap Joe Johnson.

He wants to go back to the "good ole days" of Phoenix 2003-4, rather than be seen as a key element to a title contending team...AT THE SAME PAY RATE?

Asking Phoenix not to match is STUPID.  BEG AND PLEAD THEM TO MATCH!  1)  It shows they want you, despite the fact that you felt they didn't,  2) Atlanta has more people show up at a game hoping to see Braves and  Falcons players in the audience than they do showing up to watch the Hawks, 3) the fanchise is in tatters despite having all this "promise," while Phoenix may be on the verge of a championship!

If you ask me, he's still suffering from the effects of the hit to the head that damaged his eye socket.  Either that, or that mask was treated with some sort of brain-deadening drug.
 

[rickortreat]

First off, a players motivation is his business, and they often change their minds about what matters.  An NBA championship is a team accomplishment.  You can be a great player but never win a championship because your team couldn't assemble enough complimentary players to render your team competitive.

In the 80's all teams were better, but some teams were able to dominate for years because of their ability to identify and lock up talent.  The product was much better, but the league has expanded faster than the world's ability to produce high-quality players.

Why should Joe Johnson sacrifice money, playing time, endorsements and the opportunity for leadership by staying with the Suns?  Why shouldn't he decide he can have a better career on his own with a new team, rather than playing second fiddle or even third to Amare and Nash?  What Reality and Joe reguard as a virtue here is self-sacrifice for a team of other players.  It seems to me the other players should be willing to share some of their salary to keep Joe Johnson in Phoenix, or for the team to have managed it's cap better to be able to afford to pay so much talent.

I can't blame Webber for signing that fat contract.  I can blame the Sixers for making the trade and signing him.  Chris should do whatever he can to make as much money as possible, irrespective of how well he produces on the court.  Players with a bad attitude don't last long.  Look at that asswipe Glen Robinson, who got beat out by a rookie, and refused to play.  He got a ring, but how many minutes did he play?  He sure wasn't an integral part of the Spurs championship.  One might even say he didn't deserve a ring.

Dalembert clearly deserves what he got, as other teams were willing to pay him at that level.  He should sacrifice his earnings potential for what?  So Chris Webber and Allen Iverson can make more than their fair share?  This is an idiotic argument.  No one is or should be willing to sacrifice for their team more than anyone else.  Malone and Payton went to LA, for less to take a shot at winning a ring.  It didn't work, they weren't good enough, and it sure wasn't Shaq that was the problem, reguardless of what some bozo Laker fans might think.  

[Guest_Randy]

Dalembert clearly deserves what he got, as other teams were willing to pay him at that level. He should sacrifice his earnings potential for what? So Chris Webber and Allen Iverson can make more than their fair share? This is an idiotic argument. No one is or should be willing to sacrifice for their team more than anyone else. Malone and Payton went to LA, for less to take a shot at winning a ring. It didn't work, they weren't good enough, and it sure wasn't Shaq that was the problem, reguardless of what some bozo Laker fans might think.

Just because other teams are willing to pay Dalembert that kind of money DOESN'T mean he clearly deserves what he got!  That's pretty wierd logic, Rick.  We have seen a TON of players paid more than they deserve -- and it can cripple an organization for years.  Is Finley worth $16 million a year?  Hey, someone was willing to pay them that so he's worth it?  Nope, sometimes an organization has to say "hey, he's worth so much to us -- and even if it hurts us now, we aren't going to allow it to kill our future."
I do agree that Sam should sign for what he can get -- this idea that some players should sacrifice while others reap the benefits is whacko!  There might be a few players who do this toward the end of their career but they will be few and far between and only superstars (and a few stars) can make that much difference anyway.

I do disagree that Malone and Payton weren't good enough -- if you think that then you obviously missed the SA/Laker series when Malone did a PHENOMENAL job for the Lakers.  He went down and so did the Lakers chances at a title.  As for Shaq not being good enough -- if Shaq had been in the shape he was in during the Lakers first title run, he would have been able to demand a double-team by the Pistons.  The Pistons ability to guard Shaq one-on-one enabled the Pistons to focus on Kobe.  No, the Pistons didn't stop Shaq -- but they held him to his average rather than the monster numbers he SHOULD have had if they were going to guard him one-on-one.  That IS Shaq's fault -- not Kobe's, not Malones, not GP's, etc.  You pay Shaq that kind of money ($25 million a YEAR) because he demands double teams -- but while Shaq put up his normal numbers, he allowed Ben Wallace to guard him all by himself and allowed Big Ben to beat him to position, hold him out from normal position, beat him down the court, beat him to the ball, etc.  You CAN'T tell me that this is "Shaq doing his job."  If that's your idea of Shaq doing his job, then we CLEARLY have different expectations of what Shaq is supposed to do.  Shaq is SUPPOSED to dominate in the post -- and he didn't do that during the Detroit/Laker series.  
I'm not saying that Shaq is the only Laker to blame -- in fact, I'd say that EVERY Laker in uniform was clearly to blame (other than Malone -- who exceeded my expectations of him).  You have to give Larry Brown and the Pistons for coming up with a game plan and executing it to perfection -- but it's up to Shaq, Kobe, PJ and the Lakers to respond and they FAILED to do that!  That, IMO, IS Shaq's fault -- no matter if he put up normal numbers in the post.  Ben Wallace WAS the better center in that series -- and that DOES reflect on Shaq, doesn't it?  And Shaq HAS to be the better center -- otherwise, he's not worth the money he is being paid.  Shaq DOES have to accept responsibility for the failure of the championship series -- along with all the other Lakers.

[Joe Vancil]

It seems to me the other players should be willing to share some of their salary to keep Joe Johnson in Phoenix, or for the team to have managed it's cap better to be able to afford to pay so much talent.

That's a pointless statement, because no player has to sacrifice ANY salary for Phoenix to match Atlanta's offer.

So why is Johnson pleading for Phoenix not to match?  That's just plain stupid, if you ask me.  Phoenix made Johnson a "for the good of the organization" offer.  They intended to match ANY offer.  And Jackson isn't a 6-year, max salary, max raise kind of player - that should be reserved for the top-level elite.  Phoenix considers him a step below that...and that's pretty darn good, if you ask me.

Johnson asking out of that situation is STUPID.



 

[Guest_Randy]

It seems to me the other players should be willing to share some of their salary to keep Joe Johnson in Phoenix, or for the team to have managed it's cap better to be able to afford to pay so much talent.

That's a pointless statement, because no player has to sacrifice ANY salary for Phoenix to match Atlanta's offer.

So why is Johnson pleading for Phoenix not to match?  That's just plain stupid, if you ask me.  Phoenix made Johnson a "for the good of the organization" offer.  They intended to match ANY offer.  And Jackson isn't a 6-year, max salary, max raise kind of player - that should be reserved for the top-level elite.  Phoenix considers him a step below that...and that's pretty darn good, if you ask me.

Johnson asking out of that situation is STUPID.

Bottom-line is that it seems that JJ has stars in his eye (okay, only one -- himself).  He seems to think that he is the best player on the Suns squad and therefore he should be the star (he doesn't like that Nash and Amare get more attention than he does).  He also seems to have gotten upset at Amare when Amare screamed at him once during a game -- hmm, something about "why don't you play some ******* defense!"  I'm really surprised that he took offense to that remark -- didn't realize that he knew what defense meant!

He also seems intrigued with Atlanta's idea of starting him at PG!  Man, here we go AGAIN -- who do teams think that just because a guy can handle the ball somewhat, that he would make a good PG?  I'm sure EVERY PG in the league is looking forward to JJ guarding them!   :rofl:

I don't think this is a done deal yet -- I think there is enough time for the  :ding: to come on in JJ's head and realize he is being not only incredibly selfish but very stupid!!!  Of course, if the lights don't come on -- he will have years and years to enjoy his situation in Atlant!!!   :crazy: