Buss May Suggest Split From Jackson

[spursfan101]

((spursreport.com)According to a report that will appear in Thursday's Los Angeles Times, writer Tim Brown says Phil Jackson will meet with Lakers owner Jerry Buss on Friday.

"Buss, who is said to be more interested in pleasing and re-signing Kobe Bryant than retaining Jackson, whose philosophies Bryant has occasionally disagreed with," writes Brown.

Mitch Kupchak, was expected to speak Wednesday with the team owner after the team's elimination in the NBA Finals, but Buss was so repulsed, he left the Palace of Auburn Hills after the third quarter of Game 5.

"Those close to the situation say Jackson is perhaps as likely to suggest the split as Buss, thinking his time with the Lakers has simply run its course, through three championships and four Finals appearances in five years," reports Brown.

In a related story, SpursReport has learned that there have been some discussions about the possibility of bringing former Houston Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich to Los Angeles to replace Jackson.

And finally, from Jackson's camp comes a story that will appear in this morning's N.Y. Post. In it, Phil Jackson's biographer, Charley Rosen, claims there's "no chance" Laker coach will return next season after he "failed to  transform Kobe Bryant into a team player."

"I think there's no chance," Rosen tells the N.Y. Post. "I think you could see it in his face on the bench. He knew it was happening. Afterward, he looked relieved, didn't he? Like he was glad this is over and I hope I don't have to do this again. They didn't play as a team all year. The team beat him. Kobe beat him."


 

[westkoast]

Rosen doesn't watch much basketball I take it.  Its hard to be a playmaker when teammates are not hitting the shots.  Funny thing is Kobe's assists are at the same spot they've been at for the past 4 years.

If the Lakers didnt play as a team all year then they wouldnt have won the pacific division or the WC title.  They certainly didnt beat the Spurs by not playing together.

[Joe Vancil]

I agree that Kobe Bryant is too much for Phil Jackson to take.  It may be hard to be a playmaker when teammates aren't hitting the shots, but it's repulsive when you're the kind of player who doesn't want to be a playmaker in the first place.  Being a real playmaker means that you have to throw those passes even when your teammates AREN'T making shots.

But even that doesn't explain why he won't get the ball to Shaq more often.  Shaq WASN'T cold.  He wasn't out-of-shape.  What he was was DEMANDING, and Bryant couldn't deal with that part of it, either.

If Phil stays, Kobe won't stay.  If Phil goes, Kobe can demand to have input on the new coach...one who'll finally take the team away from Shaq and give it to Kobe...or Kobe will leave.  Either way, I don't think that bodes well for the Lakers.

[spursfan101]

I think they should just disolve the whole team, including the team name and colors, and just start over from scratch.  You know...get rid of all that bad charma.

Or just completly disolve the team so LA could start following the team with heart...and no money...THE CLIPPERS!

Or combine the team names together...

THe Los Angeles LIPPERS

[westkoast]

I agree that Kobe Bryant is too much for Phil Jackson to take.  It may be hard to be a playmaker when teammates aren't hitting the shots, but it's repulsive when you're the kind of player who doesn't want to be a playmaker in the first place.  Being a real playmaker means that you have to throw those passes even when your teammates AREN'T making shots.

But even that doesn't explain why he won't get the ball to Shaq more often.  Shaq WASN'T cold.  He wasn't out-of-shape.  What he was was DEMANDING, and Bryant couldn't deal with that part of it, either.

If Phil stays, Kobe won't stay.  If Phil goes, Kobe can demand to have input on the new coach...one who'll finally take the team away from Shaq and give it to Kobe...or Kobe will leave.  Either way, I don't think that bodes well for the Lakers.

He does throw the passes even if they arent hitting but there comes a time when he is suppose to (and also told by the coaching staff) to do his thing.   People base this whole season off one game.  Other Laker fans, you know people who watched more than a handfull of games, will tell you the same thing.  He was a playmaker this year and when the Lakers were clicking he was putting up double digit assist nights.  He looked like a team player to me.  He is just expected to be a play maker one night and if he does and players miss shots then its his fault that he didnt shoot more, just like the Kings game.   What about game 6 during the Wolves series?  Who was swinging the ball the whole night to wide open shooters?

 One game they fully got away from Shaq but it was not just Kobe who got away from him.  The team as a whole, aside from Luke Walton, was doing the same thing.  You are showing how much you dislike Kobe by acting like this was all him.  He was not the only person doing it.  If you really watched the games you would have noticed the other players jacking up quick shots, attacking but not really getting to the rim, and just plain bricking when they could have dumped it off.  His poor shot selection is what made it look alot worse than it was.  How many games did Shaq score 20+?

Kobe was ASKED to attack the defense as hard as he could.  When Kobe gets on Shaq's job is easier and vice versa.  When role players hit shots its easier for Shaq to operate.  Kobe led the team in assists to Shaq this year so I think you are a little off Joe.  Kobe doesn't bode well to you but I think he has done just fine for the Lakers.  3 titles and 4 trips to the Finals in 5 years sounds like he is doing something right.  How many 9-10 assist nights did he have during the season?  Who is the person who initiates the offense?  What are you basing this all off of?  A single article?

When players are not getting calls what are they told to do?  Keep attacking and force the refs to make calls.  He tried to do that in game 4 and couldnt get a single call to save his life.  Although I guess if you have a serious problem with Kobe you see it another way.

[Joe Vancil]

His poor shot selection is what made it look alot worse than it was.

His poor shot seletion is what drew the attention to it, making it look like exactly what it was.

Who is the person who initiates the offense?

Uh - no one.  That was part of the problem.  Bryant was SUPPOSED to be doing that by getting the ball to Shaq, allowing the Lakers to play inside-out.  He wasn't, they didn't, and it cost them.

You are showing how much you dislike Kobe by acting like this was all him.

Actually, I believe I'm placing the blame for the ball not going to the right people on the person who is supposed to be initiating the offense.  I'd say the same thing about John Stockton if he jacked up 25 shots a game shooting in the 30's.

One game they fully got away from Shaq but it was not just Kobe who got away from him. The team as a whole, aside from Luke Walton, was doing the same thing.

You tell me, then;  who is responsible for initiating the offense?  Even if every other player on the team, the ones on the bench, and the off-season acquisitions for the next 10 years don't throw the ball to Shaq, the guy who is supposed to run the offense is supposed to work at getting the ball to him.  If you're not chalking it up to selfishness, then you have to chalk it up to incompetence.  And I lay this at Jackson's feet, too;  there came a point where Jackson needed to bench Bryant, and he didn't.

O'Neal is perhaps the most demanding-in-a-whiny-way player that I've ever seen.  Heck, if I were his teammate, at least once during a practice during the year's time, I'd have beaned him in the back of the head with the basketball to say, "If you want the ball so darn bad, WORK HARDER AND PAY MORE ATTENTION!"  But there's no way I take more shots than the man when he's shooting 16-21.  No way do I finish that game with *2* assists.  Payton had 5.  Rick freakin' Fox had *6*.  There's no way I have *3* turnovers and *2* assists when the focal point of my offense is going 16-21.  Yet in a game like that, Kobe Bryant is the lone Laker with more turnovers than assists.  And shades-of-Nick-Van-Exel, that doesn't count the "turnovers" that are counted as rebounds.

This is absolutely Iverson-like...except that Iverson is the focal point of his team's offense.  And it was Phil Jackson a couple of years ago telling Kobe that part of the reason to feed Shaq is so that Kobe doesn't get beat to high hell the way Iverson does.  Kobe ignored him.  This series, it cost him.

 

[westkoast]

Joe I know you understand how the triangle works.  Kobe doesnt pass to the corner, run real fast, catch his own pass, and then make the next pass inside the triangle.  Believe it or not those other 3 guys are apart of the triangle and dictate how the ball is moved.  If Fisher is in the corner and doesn't go into the post but swings it away from Shaq then the ball will not get to Shaq in time.  Did you watch any of the games?  Or is your extremly dislike for Kobe Bryant keeping you from seeing that?  I find it very funny for someone who watched all the Laker playoff games this year that its Kobe and ONLY Kobe's fault.  Kobe initates and directs traffic when he gets the ball.  Did that happen everytime this series?  No it didnt due to the Pistons ball pressure.  So again, you hate Kobe and you are dying to place the blame on his shoulders.  When the team as a whole, minus Shaq, played real bad.  Sure he could have played better but it happens...they did a good defensive job on him.  They did a great job on the whole team and I find it disrespectful to the Pistons that you can only say its all Kobe's fault and not say its actually the Pistons who caused the Lakers to loose.  I guess Kobe is to blame for all the silly turnovers, the offensive boards the Pistons snagged, ALL the long rebounds that lead to fast breaks, and the lack of transition defense.  George, Payton, Malone, Fisher, Fox, Walton, and Medvenko did not rush shots the whole series....if you were watching from your neck of the woods.

Kobe shot selection doesnt mean he got away from Shaq.  Those are his shots to take.   He averages 25 shots a game.  He choose bad spots and tough ones to make, but again those amount of shots were worked into the offensive scheme.  Yes taking those shots still keeps the defenders somewhat away from Shaq.  No matter how many times he misses the defense HAS to cover Kobe Bryant.  The ball is not meant to go into Shaq everytime.  Like I said they both have to be on for the game to run smoothly.  You are acting like he never passed the ball the whole series.

Lets not talk about game 4 because like I said when you are getting nailed on the way to the basket you are told to attack until the refs make a call.  I mean its not like Prince was getting away with grabbing and bumping.

I do find it funny that you are trying to say Kobe did this and that all year yet you only caught a small amount of the regular season games.  The first 3 rounds of the playoffs he was great and the last series he got shut down.  Anyone else and you would be singing a different tune.

[Joe Vancil]

I find it very funny for someone who watched all the Laker playoff games this year that its Kobe and ONLY Kobe's fault.

I'm not saying it is *ONLY* Kobe's fault.  I'm saying it is *MOSTLY* his fault.

Kobe shot selection doesnt mean he got away from Shaq.

This is laughable.  OF COURSE Kobe's shot selection meant that he got away from Shaq!  For the series, Kobe Bryant took 29.7% of the shots the entire team took.  Shaq took 22.1%.  The other 10 players took the remaining 48.2%.  Four of the 5  games, he took a greater percentage of shots than O'Neal took in his HIGHEST game.

If a guard calls his own number 30% of the time, that leaves 70% of the shots for all the rest of the players.

But everyone says the game plan was to work the ball to O'Neal - right?

O'Neal took 22.1% of the shots from the team.  Let's assume the man was out there the entire series.  If you EVENLY DISTRIBUTE THE SHOTS among all players - including Bryant - on the court, O'Neal will get 20% of the shots.  Kobe's great ball distribution got him a whole 2.1% more.

Of course, Shaq got 15 offensive rebounds in the series.  Let's assume he gets 1 shot in every three of those rebounds (and that's being generous to Kobe).  Shaq's percentage of shots drops down to 20.8. of the total.

The conclusion comes up pretty strongly - for a man looking for O'Neal, Bryant did a p***-poor job of finding him.


 

[WayOutWest]

Joe,

Your analysis is faulty.

It's not Kobe's shot selection nor shot attempts that prevented Shaq from getting his touches.  I've stated CORRECTLY for the past THREE years how to beat the Lakers.  The Pistons were able to pressure the ball and limit the amount of time the Lakers had to run the triangle.  Shaq cannot create his own shot so he gets his touches by the Lakers SETTING UP and RUNNING the offense.  The ball pressure not only limited the time to run the offense but they also made it hard to make the entry pass which caused the Lakers to swing the ball weak side with time already running out.  The Lakers just could not space and run the triangle effectively with all that pressure and limited time.  The Lakers got caught in a chicken and the egg scenario.  The Lakers couldn't get "Shaq-double-team" open looks because there was no floor spacing.  There was no floor spacing because the Laker role players didn't get their "Shaq-double-team" open looks.

Had Malone not got hurt the Lakers defense and rebounding would have been much better.  With the Lakers being able to control the boards the Pistons would have not had the luxury of getting into their set pressure defense almost everytime down the floor.  What the Pistons were able to do with the Pick-n-Role is what I expected from the Wolves.  Casell being backed up by Hudson would have been a "NO RELIEF PG" rotation that could run the Pick-N-Role offense to death on L.A.

I can't count the number of times the Laker role players gave up the ball after doing nothing but wasting time.  No entry pass, no drive to the basket and no shots.  Kobe was given the ball with no time to set up a play for anyone but himself.  Kobe drove and dished, Kobe found the open man and Kobe shut down Billips and Rip when he was on them.  Kobe is the LAST person on the Lakers you can blame for the Lakers failure.

 

[westkoast]

You know what is wonderful about living in the LA area when you talk about the Lakers?  Local radio and newspapers.  They discuss game plans, what happend during games, and how they want to approach things with the players and coaching staff.  Kobe was told to attack.  Was it his fault that the refs swallowed their whistles on a number of plays?  Dont even try to pretend like Kobe was not getting hit on his way to the lane with no calls in game 4 and at the begging of game 5.  There was at least 7-8 calls that did not go Kobe's way in game 4.  One being two obvious fouls in one play by Prince on the sideline once Kobe got around him.  This is not just a Laker fan talking either because if the ABC commentators made a comment about how one side its a foul on the Lakers but the same thing on the other end isnt.  Phil Jackson said he wanted Kobe to continue to go at Prince and Hamilton until the refs decided to make the calls.

Again, Kobe is the type of player like T-mac, AI, etc that HAVE to be guarded no matter what.  They always are able to hit shots even if they go 0-10.  Kobe is also suppose to get a large number of shots.  This keeps guards from roaming around Shaq, it helps with spacing, and it helps the other players from being the focus.  If he is not shooting he doesnt draw attention away from his teammates.  We saw what happend against the Kings when he wasn't taking shots at all.

When the Lakers want to go into Shaq its not only about him scoring points and taking shots.  Its also about spacing and the movement inside the triangle, so to go off just shots is not telling the whole story.  How many assists did Shaq have in the series?  How many wide open looks did he get George, Fish, Walton, and Rush just by touching it and throwing it out?   Like I said if you watched all the games from start to finish you would see that a) it wasnt just Kobe not getting the ball to Shaq and b ) The Pistons did a good job of getting up on the passer and pushing Shaq out of the spots he wanted.  PJ wants the ball to go into Shaq but he gets very very frustrated when the Lakers force it and turn the ball over because of it.  That did happen quite a few times.

Kobe did not play well at all and yes he could have had better shot selection but that does not mean he completly went against the game plans and was mostly to blame.  Poor TEAM transition defense, lack of boxing out, poor TEAM rebounding, poor TEAM execution, and poor pick and roll defense is what killed these guys.  Your bias is shinning thru like the sun in LA Joe.  You are a very intelligent guy when it comes to basketball so I know very well that you could see the other problems.  You just straight dislike Kobe and want to place alot of the blame on him.  He deserves to be bashed for having 2 sub-par games but you are going overboard.

[ziggy]

Was it Kobe's fault that the refs swallowed their whistles on a number of plays?  Dont even try to pretend like Kobe was not getting hit on his way to the lane with no calls in game 4 and at the begging of game 5.  There was at least 7-8 calls that did not go Kobe's way in game 4.  One being two obvious fouls in one play by Prince on the sideline once Kobe got around him.  This is not just a Laker fan talking either because if the ABC commentators made a comment about how one side its a foul on the Lakers but the same thing on the other end isnt.  Phil Jackson said he wanted Kobe to continue to go at Prince and Hamilton until the refs decided to make the calls.

I wonder, since the world (including Ralph Nader representing the Kings) said the same thing about how the Lakers got all the calls in 2000, 2001, and 2002, does that now mean that we should put astericks next to the Lakers titles?  I thought that if you had the stars you got the calls?  This has got to be Dick Cheney's fault somehow.

[WayOutWest]

Was it Kobe's fault that the refs swallowed their whistles on a number of plays?  Dont even try to pretend like Kobe was not getting hit on his way to the lane with no calls in game 4 and at the begging of game 5.  There was at least 7-8 calls that did not go Kobe's way in game 4.  One being two obvious fouls in one play by Prince on the sideline once Kobe got around him.  This is not just a Laker fan talking either because if the ABC commentators made a comment about how one side its a foul on the Lakers but the same thing on the other end isnt.  Phil Jackson said he wanted Kobe to continue to go at Prince and Hamilton until the refs decided to make the calls.

I wonder, since the world (including Ralph Nader representing the Kings) said the same thing about how the Lakers got all the calls in 2000, 2001, and 2002, does that now mean that we should put astericks next to the Lakers titles?  I thought that if you had the stars you got the calls?  This has got to be Dick Cheney's fault somehow.

ziggy,

You must live too close to some of the Blazer players cause your memory is mush from all second hand "yezko" smoke.

Nadar's complaint, and most fans, was about the series vs. the Kings.  One game in particular.  Since when has the GREATEST playoff run in NBA history ever come into question?  Please find where ANY Laker fan on this board even mentioned a Pistons asterisk.  PLEASE!

The hypocraicy from everyone, except a Spurs fan or two, regarding the refs in the finals is amazing.  I honestly thought THIS board was better than that.  :nonono:

[Reality]

Since when has the GREATEST playoff run in NBA history ever come into question?

The Celts runs were never questioned that i know of, other then opposing teams having to put up with their alternating the locker room either being super hot or ice cold.

The Bulls 72-10 and Three Peats have similiarly never been questioned by anyone but Krishnas.



 

[westkoast]

Since when has the GREATEST playoff run in NBA history ever come into question?

The Celts runs were never questioned that i know of, other then opposing teams having to put up with their alternating the locker room either being super hot or ice cold.

The Bulls 72-10 and Three Peats have similiarly never been questioned by anyone but Krishnas.

Did your wife pack retarded sandwiches for you for lunch?

Reality check...No team in the history of the NBA has had a better record in the playoffs than the Lakers when they went 15-1.

Ziggy, unlike Reality and the Kings fans I am not blaming the lack of calls as the reason why the Lakers lost.  They got outplayed in both games, plain and simple.  What I am saying is that Kobe's shooting pct dropped because of it.

[ziggy]

ziggy,

You must live too close to some of the Blazer players cause your memory is mush from all second hand "yezko" smoke.

Nadar's complaint, and most fans, was about the series vs. the Kings.  One game in particular.  Since when has the GREATEST playoff run in NBA history ever come into question?  Please find where ANY Laker fan on this board even mentioned a Pistons asterisk.  PLEASE!

The hypocraicy from everyone, except a Spurs fan or two, regarding the refs in the finals is amazing.  I honestly thought THIS board was better than that.  :nonono:

WOW,
You need to get a grip man.  Can't take a little good natured ribbing.  I bitch about the officiating, Kings fans do, and Laker fans do, in fact just about all NBA fans do.  They suck.  Give me a break on the hypocracy crap.  Show me one post where I said the calls in the finals were good, bad or indifferent.  Know what, you can't.

ALL I KNOW IS I GOT A SERIOUS RAFT OF CRAP FROM LAKER FANS WHEN I BITCHED WHEN THE BLAZERS LOST TO THE LAKERS.  NOW THAT THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT MR. DEFENSIVE COPS AN ATTITUDE.  THATS HYPOCRACY BUDDY.   :puke:

The post was meant as a little good natured tounge in cheek ribbing.  Take it for what is was.