Author Topic: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline  (Read 14647 times)

Offline Ted

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The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« on: June 29, 2012, 06:20:27 PM »
Just visited the board today for the first time in months. Sad to see it get to this point. I still remember the old MSNBC board, which went down with the Twin Towers. Crazy to think that's more than ten years ago.

Just to clear up any misconceptions: I did not leave the board because of Reality's Laker baiting/hating. I've always gotten a chuckle from Reality's ability to incite such rage and indignation. Reality, you may be the greatest troll of all time. And I believe, deep in your twisted, Laker-hate-filled mind, you really were trying to keep the board alive, to create discourse.

In my case, it's simple. Life happened. I got busy. Got married. Went to grad school. Finished. Got busier. Had 4 kids (well I didn't "have" them). Moved twice. Bought a rental. Grew up a little--not enough. It's crazy to think about all of the things that have happened since I started posting in late 2000. Heck. I was still mainly a Bulls fan living in Utah back then.

I wish I had more time to post about basketball, but even if I did, the last year has pretty much killed my passion for the league. I don't like LeBron. I'm not a Kobe lover. My favorite player killed off my favorite coach and then got traded. My team is a borderline 8 seed every year. PEDs, referees fixing games, DWill, the lockout, the Lakers almost getting Paul after raping Memphis for Gasol, Vetogate, and LeBron wins. I'm just not interested any more.

It'd be nice to know what happened to everyone else. Joe V, Skander, Caleb, WOW/Zapotec/Miguel, ziggy, Lurker, SpursX3, Chief, jn, jw, DABODS, Rolando and all the others. I suspect you'll all say the same thing: life happened. Oh yeah, and Facebook. If you want to stay in touch: facebook.com/rustedhart. If not, fare thee well.

I do appreciate Reality for at least trying. And Dan and Randy, you deserve credit, too. If you didn't break your numerous self-imposed moratoriums, this place really would have died by now. Thank you.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

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Offline Laker Fan

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 10:54:09 PM »
While I plead guilty to abandoning my own moratoriums, methinks you are wrong regarding a certain person who IMO did not try to keep the board alive, he tried to flame with every post and I believe is more responsible for this once great boards death than he is for trying to keep it alive. It gets tiresome rowing through all the garbage just to try to have a basketball discussion and that is all it ever was.

Nice to hear from you though Ted, I wish you well in all your future endeavors.
Dan

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 01:18:22 AM »
4 kids or 4 wives? I guess either way you would be very busy.  Congrats on all that life has thrown your way, kids definately make life more interesting.

I don't post because nobody else does. I also got tired of good basketball discussion constantly being interrupted by non-sense. I hope that someday this board picks up again. The problem STILL is that any time someone posts the same B.S. still pops up in every thread.  A quick check confirms that the same B.S. is still being posted. I doubt it wll ever change, but if it does I will be glad to start posting again.
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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 10:46:08 PM »
Thank you for making my point WOW and I agree I would start posting again as well
Dan

Offline ziggy

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2012, 11:48:32 AM »
I stopped posting here just over two years ago.  I have made a couple of random posts in that intervening period, but I pretty much stopped posting about 2-1/2 years ago.

For me there were a number of reasons.  First I was nearly done with my MBA, I was in the middle of my 3rd to last class, and my wife and I separated.  This was one of the most devastating periods of my life.  I had been divorced before, about 18 years earlier, and that breakup happened when my oldest was less than a year old.  My second marriage had lasted 10-1/2 years, and I have two younger children (8 & 11 now).  My wife and I separated for about 5-6 weeks, and then we briefly reconciled, and then we separated for good in July.

I don?t know if any of you have ever been divorced, but it is a gut wrenching experience, at least it is for some people.  My first divorce was extremely difficult for me, not so much for my wife.  After it was over I was incredibly bitter, and the next 18 years with her were very difficult.  I did as much as I could to mollify the situation, and I regularly sucked it up, simply for my son.  My second wife made it all the more worse, because she would not let it go.

My first wife was 7 years younger than me, and she was very selfish, and very narcissistic.  At the time she really didn?t care, and she went to great lengths to blame and criticize, never really engaging in any self-reflection, never making any real effort, and she chose to avoid counseling at all cost.  She never really faced what she was doing, and not long into her second marriage the realization of the consequences of her choices caused her life to unravel.  She became addicted to prescription pain medication, and her second marriage became a horribly destructive and hateful existence.  I got pretty much full custody of my oldest son when he was 10, and while he still loves his mother, their relationship has never been the same.  After hitting bottom she has finally started to get her life in order, and moving forward.  The upshot of all that is, her struggles had a hugely negative impact on me, my son, and my second marriage.

My second divorce was very similar, only worse by orders of magnitude.  The bitterness I feel towards my second wife is so deep, and I believe at this point that our relationship will be forever, at best, frigid.  It is unbelievably heart wrenching to watch a person I dearly loved, lie, cheat, steal, back-stab like she has.  It has been the most crushing experience I have ever endured and I am far from recovering from it.  After my first divorce I dearly wanted a different and better relationship with my second wife in divorce, and I made so many efforts and extended so many olive branches, swallowed my pride repeatedly, and in the end she treated me more despicably than I could ever imagine.

As that process started, I was going through counseling.  In the process of counseling I did much self-reflection.  I tore myself down, and then tried to rebuild myself, and I did that repeatedly.  I am under no illusion as to who I am and the type of person I am.  I also came to realize some triggers from my marriage that I struggled to deal with.  As I went through that process I became increasingly intolerant and hostile towards those types of behaviors, especially when they are directed towards me.  I have made the choice that I would much prefer to be alone than to live with that any longer.

So how does all of that relate to this community?  There was a time when I really enjoyed this place, just like I dearly loved my wife and would have done just about anything for her.  In time though this place became a place that I really began to dislike; I would prefer to be alone than to live it any longer.

Now I know that Reality can be way over the top, and most of it is directed at the Lakers.  It isn?t directed at me, and I have always chosen to remain detached from all that drama.  In my counseling I learned about and really came to understand the pernicious effects of Karpman?s drama triangle.  I lived it almost daily for 11 years, and in the last 3-5 years that way of living was destroying my life.  Not only was I living it at home, but it was a regular part of this place as well.

I am not going to sit here and place all the blame on Reality.  Sure he was, as Ted says, the king of the trolls.  In my opinion it was by and large not personal in the beginning, but as time went on the personal crap just took over.  The Laker fans were the ones that turned it personal.  Now I am not going to say I don?t have some empathy for our Laker posters here.  I lived with TrueLaker at MSNBC, and his garbage was so intense that I came very close to walking away from MSNBC, and if he had been a poster here I would have never posted here.  I understand how frustrating it can be to deal with a constant barrage of negativity, and yes I think sometimes Reality goes over the line, and I really wish he would just take a break from it all.

At the same time I want to make this very clear, there is only one poster on this board that I used the ignore button on, and he was a Laker fan.  That situation was really the impetus for why I quit posting.  This victim/persecutor/rescuer mind-set destroyed my marriage, and frankly it destroyed this board.  My marriage was destroyed by the constant and undermining reality that is personalized criticism.  My marriage was destroyed by passive/aggressive manipulation.  My marriage was destroyed by long held resentments, and blame.  I got so much of that with one poster that I decided I didn?t want to deal with it any longer.  I chose to jump off the triangle.

There is only poster here that I am done dealing with entirely, and he is a different Laker fan from the one I refer to above.  His arrogance, condescension, self-righteous pomposity, and vindictiveness was flat out too much for me.  His deliberate attempts at provocation, and his frankly personal attacks just wore so thin for me.  Just to be straight I am not referring to either of the two Laker fans who have already posted to this thread.  I have no problem with either of you two.

So my point in all of this?  I went through great self-reflection during my divorce.  I spent many hours reading Nietzsche, Camus, and Kierkegaard, as well as a number of other books to help me put many things in perspective.  I read a book about how easy, and destructive it is to objectify people.  I read a book on the redemptive nature of The Blues.  I went to church for the first time in years.  I challenged myself and my arrogance, and I wallowed in my own self-pity, dug myself out of that pit, and then chose to dive right back in.  I had some momemts of deep Kierkagaardian self-reflection, and had I moments of great angst/anguish/anxiety/despair and I threw myself off the proverbial cliff on more than one occasion.  I have blamed, and criticized, and I have developed deep contempt for my ex, and used pejoratives to describe her that I never thought I would ever use. 

Am I a better person today?  I will let others judge that, but I do know that my life with my children is infinitely better today than it was the last couple years of my marriage, and in all reality that is all that matters to me.  As I told my ex a few months back, when she gave me a pathetic, half-hearted, back-handed apology asking me to give her a full pardon for everything that has happened.

OWN YOUR CHOICES, OWN YOUR BEHAVIORS, OWN YOUR BULLSHIT. 

This place will never get any better until that is what we each do.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2012, 03:01:59 PM »
Wow Zig, I am sorry to hear you have had so much pain in your personal life, I guess the anonymity of a sports discussion board really hides a lot doesn't it, I hope you're doing better. I can't imagine enduring such pain and as it sounds like we are around the same age, it makes me grateful that my wife of 31 years has put up with me for so long, I applaud you for going through so much for the sake of your kids.

Nothing more to say really, the nonsense that I have complained about on this board from a childish immature little kid (of course I'm NEVER childish!) really means nothing when you consider what life can hand to some people, I certainly wish you the best.
Dan

Offline ziggy

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 04:11:04 PM »
Thank you Dan I appreciate your words, I really do.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Randy

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 07:20:23 PM »
I have missed the old days of discussing basketball.  I find most of the boards have mindless rants with very little basketball discussion.  However, I think in the scheme of life -- basketball comes way down on the list.  I am sorry to hear about your life ziggy and I'm sure I'm the one you mentioned in your post and all I can do is say "I'm sorry."  It was never my intention to cause harm or hurt.  I have always been a bit surprised by people who have ignored the personal attacks of Reality at Laker posters -- it would be different if they didn't fill every thread and hijack every thread.  I can also say I went through a tough time as well but I will bore you with the details.  I can say that even when I felt personally attacked, the only person I failed to respect was Reality.  Again, Ziggy, if I added to your turmoil during that tough time - I hope you will come to a place where you will accept my apology. 

There was some fantastic basketball played this year in the playoffs -- I sure missed being able to have some intelligent conversations about them.  Bottom line is that there aren't any good basketball boards out there -- and since my son went away to college, it leaves me to discuss basketball with my wife and daughter (both of whom could care less about the game). 

Again, if I offended this board or people on it -- I am sorry!

Offline ziggy

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 08:07:49 PM »
I have missed the old days of discussing basketball.  I find most of the boards have mindless rants with very little basketball discussion.  However, I think in the scheme of life -- basketball comes way down on the list.  I am sorry to hear about your life ziggy and I'm sure I'm the one you mentioned in your post and all I can do is say "I'm sorry."  It was never my intention to cause harm or hurt.  I have always been a bit surprised by people who have ignored the personal attacks of Reality at Laker posters -- it would be different if they didn't fill every thread and hijack every thread.  I can also say I went through a tough time as well but I will bore you with the details.  I can say that even when I felt personally attacked, the only person I failed to respect was Reality.  Again, Ziggy, if I added to your turmoil during that tough time - I hope you will come to a place where you will accept my apology. 

There was some fantastic basketball played this year in the playoffs -- I sure missed being able to have some intelligent conversations about them.  Bottom line is that there aren't any good basketball boards out there -- and since my son went away to college, it leaves me to discuss basketball with my wife and daughter (both of whom could care less about the game). 

Again, if I offended this board or people on it -- I am sorry!

Randy,
I am truly sorry as well.  As I said I spent a very long arduous time in significant self-reflection, and I am under no illusion as to who I am, and the way I can sometimes be.  It takes two to tango, and I unfortunately chose to dance just like a lot of other people.  I accept your apology, and I hope you can take my apology in the spirit it is offered.

ziggy
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Randy

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 10:32:27 PM »
Accepted -- again, I truly am sorry if I added to your struggles.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 10:38:06 AM »
That was some post zigg, all I can say is suck it up! J/K.  I have gone through something very similar to what you described in your second marriage. It has been going on 7 years since my split, very very painful time in my life and I went through a lot of changes. Some good and some bad. It has gotten better over the years but there are occassional flare ups with my ex.  We are still in daily contact because of the kids but I would say for the most we get along ok.  I really didn't feel like sharing that with the entire board but I did share it with a couple of posters, including Reality of all people. I did not go through all the post break up stuff you did other than see a counselor about half a dozen times but I do feel like I am a better person now. While I may be better I still have a lot of work to do in a lot of areas, including dealing with self inflicted fatso diabetes.

Hope things work out for you ziggs, I know how tough it can be being on the wrong side of that 50% of marriages statistic.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 08:46:15 PM »
You guys make me feel so young and with such an easy life.

I went through a "divorce" of sorts just over 2 years ago as well.  We weren't married, but were together going on 7 years.  But with no kids, the separation has been much easier.  I'm not sure how I would react to a custody battle.  Having seen what it did to my father, it's one of my great fears in life.

From a professional standpoint, I'm blessed.  Sure, my boss(es) might drive me nuts, but I'm in a steady job with stable income, in a field (network administration) in demand.

From a basketball perspective, I certainly still talk about it, probably more-so now than ever.  I scout for DraftExpress.com, write for philly.sbnation.com and libertyballers.com.  I've been credentialed for the NBA draft (3x), NBA lottery (2x), combine, draft workouts, player introductory press conferences, as well as being credentialed with the 76ers for everything from games, to practices, exit interviews, workouts, and the like.  I can pretty much get a credential for any NBA event that I want.  I turned down going to Vegas for the summer league next week just because I'm running out of vacation days.

In time, this very time-consuming "hobby" will likely end, as I have to devote more time to home ownership and family activities, but right now while I'm kid free I'm soaking up the experience.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »
Bods, 

Not enough dough or too much competiton to switch "hobby" to "career"?
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 02:06:57 PM »
Bods, 

Not enough dough or too much competiton to switch "hobby" to "career"?

Well, they're tied pretty directly into each other.  The competition pushes down the dough.

But yeah, the difference in pay between the two is considerable enough that it's not even close to being realistic right now.

Offline Ted

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Re: The Long, Slow, Sad Decline
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 06:18:40 PM »
Zig, I've always respected you. Your posts are thoughtful and well reasoned. You always seemed to be easygoing and it's fun to "discuss" things with you. I appreciate your openness here on the board. That's not easy. Your commitment to put your kids first speaks volumes about you. God bless you brother. You too WoW.

Meeting Mike in Cali all those years ago was a highlight. Meeting Joe V., Skander, and Caleb on a 6-hour swing through Columbia and playing hoops with them was awesome. I have very good memories of this board. It played a significant role in my life for a time.

I realize it's easy for me to cut Reality so much slack because I don't think I have EVER been one of his targets. So maybe I should take it more seriously. First of all, the baiting and reactive personal attacks and name calling have to stop. And I think that includes calling someone "a childish immature little kid," even if he is.

If we all agreed to a abide by code of conduct so to speak, and one us consistently refused contribute positively, then . . . Well, what do you do with cancer? You cut it out.

Reality, cut the shit. Every one else, don't react. Reality, if you keep trying to troll and mess up good, quality discussion, we'll vote you off the island for good. It happened to jemagee. It can happen to you. Derek, if it comes to that, will you support such an action?

I for one will give this group more attention. I'll visit more often. I'll post more. I'll try harder. Maybe we can bring it back.

"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton