PEDs in basketball?

[Wolverine]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12572/ped-salesmen-say-nba-players-were-clients

*IF* true, this isn't remotely surprising - at least to me.  You can find PEDs across the sports landscape at this point.

[rickortreat]

Any athlete is always looking for an edge. Only the best of them make any money out of it- strong motivation.  Without any regulation or any heavy enforcement, some are going to take advantage. To think that NBA athletes are any purer or have more integrity than baseball players seems absurd to me.

[westkoast]

::cough Lebron James cough::

I don't think steroids would be popular in the league seeing as the benefit of steroids really would only help big men.  A lot of players CUT muscle mass to speed up their game.  Kobe did this 3 years back in the off-season.  I've seen others slim down as well.  Looks like Melo got a bit slimmer as well.

[jn]

I disagree westkoast.  Shortened recovery time is one of the results of PED's and in an 82 + game schedule that is a huge advantage.

[westkoast]

I disagree westkoast.  Shortened recovery time is one of the results of PED's and in an 82 + game schedule that is a huge advantage.

Good point.

 The amount of running that is done in NBA games makes me think that recovery, from a lung cardio stand point, wouldn't help with these.  Getting back after a shoulder injury, yea I can see it.  That's why Mark Mcgwuire said he was taking them right? 

[ziggy]

I disagree westkoast.  Shortened recovery time is one of the results of PED's and in an 82 + game schedule that is a huge advantage.

Agree JN that is one of the most important reasons why athletes use PED's.  We all have seen what PED's did for Ben Johnson and Justin Gatlin in the 100 meters.  There is no doubt that building that additional speed, as well as the ability to elevate, would be a huge advantage in basketball, for little guys.  For those 3 reasons PED's in basketball would seem like a no-brainer.

A lot of players CUT muscle mass to speed up their game.  Kobe did this 3 years back in the off-season.  I've seen others slim down as well.  Looks like Melo got a bit slimmer as well.

I am not going to make a "cough cough" reference here regarding Kobe.  I have no information to believe he isn't completely on the up and up, so I will assume that he is.  At the same time the idea that he is cutting muscle mass is absurd.  Look at pictures of him today compared to 2001, and tell me he has reduced muscle mass.  Mark McGwire said in 1998 one of the biggest changes he made was in expanding his stretching regimes and isotonic exercises.  Barry Bonds spoke many a time about the significant advantage Maple bats provided over Northern Ash.  Misdirection is one the best tools in the arsenal of the scoundrel.

[westkoast]

I disagree westkoast.  Shortened recovery time is one of the results of PED's and in an 82 + game schedule that is a huge advantage.

Agree JN that is one of the most important reasons why athletes use PED's.  We all have seen what PED's did for Ben Johnson and Justin Gatlin in the 100 meters.  There is no doubt that building that additional speed, as well as the ability to elevate, would be a huge advantage in basketball, for little guys.  For those 3 reasons PED's in basketball would seem like a no-brainer.

A lot of players CUT muscle mass to speed up their game.  Kobe did this 3 years back in the off-season.  I've seen others slim down as well.  Looks like Melo got a bit slimmer as well.

I am not going to make a "cough cough" reference here regarding Kobe.  I have no information to believe he isn't completely on the up and up, so I will assume that he is.  At the same time the idea that he is cutting muscle mass is absurd.  Look at pictures of him today compared to 2001, and tell me he has reduced muscle mass.  Mark McGwire said in 1998 one of the biggest changes he made was in expanding his stretching regimes and isotonic exercises.  Barry Bonds spoke many a time about the significant advantage Maple bats provided over Northern Ash.  Misdirection is one the best tools in the arsenal of the scoundrel.

My 'cough cough' reference was a joke.  Lighten up a bit Zig.  Lebron has had a BIG body since his first year in high school.  Do I need to tag all jokes with a sticky note around here?

And yes, Kobe DID cut weight.  He said it himself.  The fans noticed.  The local commentators noticed.  After Shaq left there was one year where he bulked up.  The following year he came back slimmed down because he said carrying the extra weight kept him from being as quick.  You can even see it in this picture where he's not nearly as defined and did not have the same mass to them as they did previously or even now.  He lost 19 pounds in that off season.   Just because his arms have got bigger since 2001 compared to now, does not mean he never cut weight Zig.  Clearly he did.  Everyone took notice who saw him on a regular basis.

http://www.sportssoundoff.net/zone/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/kobe-bryant-lebron-james.jpg

[ziggy]

I disagree westkoast.  Shortened recovery time is one of the results of PED's and in an 82 + game schedule that is a huge advantage.

Agree JN that is one of the most important reasons why athletes use PED's.  We all have seen what PED's did for Ben Johnson and Justin Gatlin in the 100 meters.  There is no doubt that building that additional speed, as well as the ability to elevate, would be a huge advantage in basketball, for little guys.  For those 3 reasons PED's in basketball would seem like a no-brainer.

A lot of players CUT muscle mass to speed up their game.  Kobe did this 3 years back in the off-season.  I've seen others slim down as well.  Looks like Melo got a bit slimmer as well.

I am not going to make a "cough cough" reference here regarding Kobe.  I have no information to believe he isn't completely on the up and up, so I will assume that he is.  At the same time the idea that he is cutting muscle mass is absurd.  Look at pictures of him today compared to 2001, and tell me he has reduced muscle mass.  Mark McGwire said in 1998 one of the biggest changes he made was in expanding his stretching regimes and isotonic exercises.  Barry Bonds spoke many a time about the significant advantage Maple bats provided over Northern Ash.  Misdirection is one the best tools in the arsenal of the scoundrel.

My 'cough cough' reference was a joke.  Lighten up a bit Zig.  Lebron has had a BIG body since his first year in high school.  Do I need to tag all jokes with a sticky note around here?

And yes, Kobe DID cut weight.  He said it himself.  The fans noticed.  The local commentators noticed.  After Shaq left there was one year where he bulked up.  The following year he came back slimmed down because he said carrying the extra weight kept him from being as quick.  You can even see it in this picture where he's not nearly as defined and did not have the same mass to them as they did previously or even now.  He lost 19 pounds in that off season.   Just because his arms have got bigger since 2001 compared to now, does not mean he never cut weight Zig.  Clearly he did.  Everyone took notice who saw him on a regular basis.

http://www.sportssoundoff.net/zone/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/kobe-bryant-lebron-james.jpg

I got your <cough cough> reference for what it was.  I just didn't want there to be any confusion about what I was saying.  Now lets be clear.  Your reference was to muscle mass, and I responded to muscle mass.  Now you are saying

And yes, Kobe DID cut weight.

Muscle mass and weight are two different things.  Muscle mass can increase weight, but the additional muscle mass can allow you to reduce weight.  One uses PED to increase muscle mass, not specifically to reduce weight, though that may be an ancillary benefit.

[WayOutWest]

Muscle mass and weight are two different things.  Muscle mass can increase weight, but the additional muscle mass can allow you to reduce weight.  One uses PED to increase muscle mass, not specifically to reduce weight, though that may be an ancillary benefit.

Zigg,

There is no question in my mind that Kobe bulked up BIG TIME the off season after the three-peat.  Kobe was HUGE, it was a bit shocking to see, but I think Kobe knew Shaq was going to be close to useless that year after getting fatter and fatter after every championship.  In the end it was a shoulder injury in the playoffs, I think against the Wolves, that cost Kobe NOT carrying the extra weight.  Kobe went up for a break away dunk and jammed the ball into the front of the rim and did some major damage to his shoulder.  That injury required off-season surgery and he saw a specialist in Colorado and the reast was history.  That year he didn't really "slim" down as much as his shoulder and arms got a lot smaller, muscle mass reduced significantly.  The year he "slimmed" down was the same year the Lakers aquired Malone, Payton, and ...err...a rape case.

[westkoast]

Muscle mass and weight are two different things.  Muscle mass can increase weight, but the additional muscle mass can allow you to reduce weight.  One uses PED to increase muscle mass, not specifically to reduce weight, though that may be an ancillary benefit.

Zigg,

There is no question in my mind that Kobe bulked up BIG TIME the off season after the three-peat.  Kobe was HUGE, it was a bit shocking to see, but I think Kobe knew Shaq was going to be close to useless that year after getting fatter and fatter after every championship.  In the end it was a shoulder injury in the playoffs, I think against the Wolves, that cost Kobe NOT carrying the extra weight.  Kobe went up for a break away dunk and jammed the ball into the front of the rim and did some major damage to his shoulder.  That injury required off-season surgery and he saw a specialist in Colorado and the reast was history.  That year he didn't really "slim" down as much as his shoulder and arms got a lot smaller, muscle mass reduced significantly.  The year he "slimmed" down was the same year the Lakers aquired Malone, Payton, and ...err...a rape case.

WOW,

That was in 2003.  I am talking about 2007 time frame when he went out and purposely lost weight to gain more speed.  The following articles made mention of it.

http://fitnessblackbook.com/fitness-studs/kobe-bryant-loses-20-pounds-for-upcoming-nba-season/

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/breaking-down-the-nba/49855-kobe-bryants-weight-loss-will-improve-his-game--benefit-los-angeles-lakers

It wasn't injury to his shoulder that caused him to slim down.  That was a choice he made to switch up his training that year.

[JoMal]

Zigg,

There is no question in my mind that Kobe bulked up BIG TIME the off season after the three-peat.  Kobe was HUGE, it was a bit shocking to see, but I think Kobe knew Shaq was going to be close to useless that year after getting fatter and fatter after every championship.  In the end it was a shoulder injury in the playoffs, I think against the Wolves, that cost Kobe NOT carrying the extra weight.  Kobe went up for a break away dunk and jammed the ball into the front of the rim and did some major damage to his shoulder.  That injury required off-season surgery and he saw a specialist in Colorado and the reast was history.  That year he didn't really "slim" down as much as his shoulder and arms got a lot smaller, muscle mass reduced significantly.  The year he "slimmed" down was the same year the Lakers aquired Malone, Payton, and ...err...a rape case.

If Kobe apparently was bulking up on PEDS at that time, does that mean Shaq was bulking up on PUDS?

[Joe Vancil]

I'm going to throw this one out here:

I don't believe the NBA has the steroids problems that MLB and the NFL do.  I don't believe there's a drug that will help anyone gain speed, hit more shots, make better passes, rebound more effectively, block more shots, or get more steals.

That's not to say there's not steroid use.  I believe it's there, but the stories are more typical of Don McLean - steroid use in the aid of healing of injuries.  Now that, I believe, is much more common - most notably among the chronically or frequently injured, and espeically around the league's marginal players.  So, yes, because they're available to the court whereas without steroids they wouldn't be, steroids increase numbers, but I'm convinced that that's the ONLY way.

I simply believe basketball players gain so radically less from steroids that their use simply isn't worth the bang-for-the-buck, unless you're an often-injured fringe player.  For the rest of the guys, they don't make much sense.

[WayOutWest]

WOW,

That was in 2003.  I am talking about 2007 time frame when he went out and purposely lost weight to gain more speed.  The following articles made mention of it.

http://fitnessblackbook.com/fitness-studs/kobe-bryant-loses-20-pounds-for-upcoming-nba-season/

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/features/breaking-down-the-nba/49855-kobe-bryants-weight-loss-will-improve-his-game--benefit-los-angeles-lakers

You mentioned "bulked up", Kobe did that before the 03-04 season like I stated and has not been as big since.  You mentioned "cutting muscle mass", and Kobe's biggest "cut" was after the 03-04 season and has not cut muscle to the degree he did that summer.  You have now clarified that you are talking about 07 but the BEST example of what you where trying to explain is durring the years I mentioned.

It wasn't injury to his shoulder that caused him to slim down.  That was a choice he made to switch up his training that year.

Who said otherwise?  Who are you trying to point that out to?  Who even mentioned that an injury might be the reason for him slimming down?

[westkoast]

You mentioned "bulked up", Kobe did that before the 03-04 season like I stated and has not been as big since.  You mentioned "cutting muscle mass", and Kobe's biggest "cut" was after the 03-04 season and has not cut muscle to the degree he did that summer.  You have now clarified that you are talking about 07 but the BEST example of what you where trying to explain is durring the years I mentioned.

No, it was in the 07 season when he lost 20 pounds.  He did not lose as much weight with the shoulder injury as he did that year.

And no I didn't just clarify when I was talking about.  I said POST-SHAQ.  Shaq was traded in 04.  Kobe's rape case and shoulder injury was in 03.  So clearly I was not talking about then.  I think YOU were mistaken.

The best example of what I was explaining was in 2007.  I pasted multiple links to it.  He did not purposely cut weight when he was injured. You need to re-read through this thread again.

Who said otherwise?  Who are you trying to point that out to?  Who even mentioned that an injury might be the reason for him slimming down?

I don't think you understood that or I didn't type it out for you to understand.

An injury was not what caused him to slim down that off-season.  It was Kobe's conscious effort to do it for more speed.  Did you even bother to click any of the links in the post or did you just jump to hitting the quote function ala Reality?

On his weight loss of 19 pounds, he said it was the first time in nine years he had weighed in at 200 pounds. "I started watching what I eat. I had something to eat, I think it was pepperoni pizza and grape soda, and I started feeling a little bloated. And I didn't know what that sensation was, and I tried getting out on the track and running and felt a little heavy, so I had to cut back a little bit." 

[rickortreat]

I'm going to throw this one out here:

I don't believe the NBA has the steroids problems that MLB and the NFL do.  I don't believe there's a drug that will help anyone gain speed, hit more shots, make better passes, rebound more effectively, block more shots, or get more steals.

That's not to say there's not steroid use.  I believe it's there, but the stories are more typical of Don McLean - steroid use in the aid of healing of injuries.  Now that, I believe, is much more common - most notably among the chronically or frequently injured, and espeically around the league's marginal players.  So, yes, because they're available to the court whereas without steroids they wouldn't be, steroids increase numbers, but I'm convinced that that's the ONLY way.

I simply believe basketball players gain so radically less from steroids that their use simply isn't worth the bang-for-the-buck, unless you're an often-injured fringe player.  For the rest of the guys, they don't make much sense.

I really have to disagree with this. Steroids can make a player physically stronger and have more endurance. It doesn't make them better players, but it gives them an extreme advantage. 

One of the things we all know is that not everyone is created equal. Some people are bigger and stronger. Some of them have higher testosterone levels than the general population.Lots of them are professional athletes! This is natural and why LeBron is the monster he is in relative terms. I think for some players the temptation to look for a way to help themselves is too great. The NBA is very competitive and most players don't make it. If steroids help them to stay in the league longer, you know that many of them will embrace the risk.