Phils off season

[wow444]

Well, I can't listen to sports radio or watch any of the sports stations today.  So we might as well figure out how the Phils can grab 2 out of 3. 

Should the Phillies go all in and make a play for Halliday now?  Something like Hamels, Werth, D. Brown for Halliday and Wells?  I think Wells will return to form with a fresh start and hitting at the Bank.  It gives Toronto some good players with a big salary cut.  If Wells doesn't work out you have Taylor as a plan B.  Though swapping Hamels for Halliday makes you older it fixes the overly Left handed look of the rotation.  Or do you bank on Hamels bouncing back with a chip on his shoulder and a return to '08 form? 

The bull pen obviously needs some shoring up though I think you are stuck with Lidge due to his contract.  Hopefully he can come back strong and healthy healthy next season.  You get JC Romero back, but I don't trust Madson even a little bit.

They also need to improve the bench.  Probably need to start from scratch.  A few veterans and a few of the kids maybe?

[jemagee]

No - the phillies should not make a play for Halladay, nor should they over pay for him, nor should they give up on Hamels at the nadir of his trade value...he had an unlucky season, some issues, and the verducci effect, all of which is 'fixable', giving up on hamels now for one season of halladay (cause they doubtful will extend him) is short sighted for a team that DOES have a budget.  And no one in baseball wants Vernon Wells there's a reason, you're already over paying Raul Ibanez, you want to over pay Wells as well?  The philllies got Werth to a good value extension already...

Brad Lidge is not as bad a closer as he was this year, nor is he as good as he was in 2008, he's probably somewhere in between, a league average closer, and he'll be fine next year.

Yes the bench is a problem, they need a better 3rd baseman (Gordon, maybe Beltre) they need Charlie Manuel to be a bit more rational and a little less 'player coach' when things go badly, I'd trade Shane Victorino because his trade value ain't never going to be higher and this was probably the best he'll ever play in his career.

My concern right now is SS, Rollins had a real bad season and is on the wrong side of 30 and there's no one in the minors who even projects to be an ML average 3rd baseman, the best possible option was traded to get Blanton (and they never saw if he could play short)

JA Happ had some rather lucky peripherals that won't be repeatable, I don't think he's Kendrick like in his regression, but he's not a front line pitcher, he's a 4/5 in my opinion...Moyer is most likely done, Pedro can't go a full season, unless you want six starting pitchers since he needs at least 10-11 days between starts, so a new starting pitcher will be necessary.

Some moves need to be made, but nothing as drastic as over paying for Roy Halladay

[Reality]

Maunel feeling any heat?  I dont mean nec as in replaced, but i mean the slacker no one covering 3rd base play and subsequent pitching to ARod with a base open.

I've heard the Philly fans are torching him but are any of you witnesses?

[wow444]

Maunel feeling any heat?  I dont mean nec as in replaced, but i mean the slacker no one covering 3rd base play and subsequent pitching to ARod with a base open.

I've heard the Philly fans are torching him but are any of you witnesses?

He had a rough World Series but he has plenty enough juice from last year and getting to the there this year where that will fade quickly.  People just need something to vent with right now.  I am avoiding the Philly sports media till after Sunday to keep from getting to bummed out.

[jemagee]

Manuel probably bought himself 2 more seasons after winning that world series - a repeat MIGHT get him to a 3rd unless they tank the next 2 seasons.

He has flaws, he handled his pitching staff poorly, even with what was available, as far back as game 2 of the LCS, he sometimes has too much loyalty to the players (jimmy rolllins, never really has been a lead off hitter, Victorino shouldn't have gone in game 6, don't believe pedro when he says he's fine, didn't you learn anything from grady little), plus managers are hired to be fired, very few DONT get fired...but Manuel won't be fired anytime soon unless for some reason the phillies are god awful next year and they decide to fire the maanger to 'shake up' the team.

The phils do have decisions to make, need a new 3rd baseman, a back up catcher, at least one starter, tweaking the bullpen as always, figuring out the future of the outfield (i'd trade shane victorino as his value will never be higher but I don't think he is really 'this good') and taylor becoming ascendant sooner than later it seems.

And figuring out what broke cole hamels if anything and how to fix it

[Derek Bodner]

No way do I trade Hamels, mainly for the reasons jem said.  He may not bounce back to 2008 (although I think he has that potential), but I think it's a fairly reasonable assumption he bounces back to 2007 form.  He's got a dead arm right now.

I'm not opposed to Halladay (but I think he's going to cost an awful lot), but not at the cost of Hamels.  If you get to the point where Hamels is your 3rd best starter, you've got a world championship staff.

3rd base, middle infield bench, bring up Taylor to be a 4th OF'er, and try to get another 2/3 starting pitcher (Lackey?)

2/4 should be easily do-able (Taylor and bench player).  Do 3 out of 4 and I think you've substantially improved the team.  Do all 4 and we're as good as any team in the league (yankees included).

[jemagee]

I don't think the phils need another middle of the rotation pitcher if you assume Hamels is going to rebound - they got Lee and Hamels

I think 2007 is doable, 2008, I think that was as good pitching as it was luck, i mean the BABIP in 2008 is probably as unlikely to be repeated as the horrible one in 2009 (then again, i was surprised to see that the DEREK has a career BABIP of 360, that's just obscene)

[Derek Bodner]

I think you need a middle of the rotation starter just as a fallback in case Hamels doesn't flame out.  I don't think he will, but he wouldn't be the first promising young pitcher to have issues and lose his effectiveness.  Whatever small amount of risk there is in Hamels next year, another #2 type pitcher greatly mitigates the risk.

[jemagee]

Keep in mind that as much as we don't want them to be - the phils are on a budget - it's a high budget - but they are on a budget - and they don't have tons of available cash to spend this off season due to already committed money (ahem, bobby abreu 3 year cost 20 million for angels, Raul Ibanez, 30 million, way to jump that market Ruben)

[jemagee]

Trade Victorino at peak value (I don't think he's going to maintain this level) for a SS prospect who is close and projects better than league average.
Sign Chone Figgins and hope that Lopes can make him a better base stealer - put him in the lead off spot
Mover Werth to center promote taylor - a defensive drop off yes but one I think wont be as bad as others think and the offensive improvement in replacing vic/feliz with taylor/figgins while finding the guy who will replace rollins (sooner than later in my opinion) is huge

That's my 'radical' idea post