You Phils should be thanking Torre

[Reality]

rookie on the mound, walks guys including the pitcher, 2 3 4 wild pitches, Hammels doing great on the other side and yet moron Joe leaves the 21 year old in???  Then does then same when reliever walks the 1st two guys?  Merry Xmass.

Otherwise good game, Phils bats showing they are still a force. 

Still the Dogers could come back.  I thought your reliever was wild but Manny wanted to be the selfish hero when a walk would have been okay, instead hacked at about anything he offered.

[jemagee]

A.  It's Hamels - why is it so hard to spell this name right, repeatedly...
B.  Did they change the rules for rookies that Clayton Kershaw gets to be a rookie two years in a row?

The Dodgers had ample opportunities against shaky pitching and choked at it including the great Manny Ramirez not coming through in a key opportunity (even though he did in another)

The phillies played better and made the most of their opportunities.

The phillies WON and yet it seems to me that no one recognizes that as much as 'the dodgers lost'....

[Reality]

"For the first four innings, Kershaw had walked just two, allowed only one hit and thrown a total of 57 pitches.

The final tally for Kershaw's fifth inning was ugly -- five runs, all earned; an LCS-record three wild pitches; 32 total pitches, half of which were balls; and only 3 of 8 first-pitch strikes (Kershaw's season percentage for first-pitch strikes was 56 percent)."

Need a bigger clue?

[jemagee]

Sorry - a clue towards what - that Clayton Kershaw IS NOT a rookie or that it's spelled Hamels?

I watched the game, I know what happened, and I know that Torre made a mistake leaving Kershaw in too long - but dear god - the phillies still had to CAPITALIZE on the opportunities - the Dodgers failed to capitalize - I'm guessing you didn't watch the game or you would have noticed 3 dodgers in a row fail against Chan Ho Park...or Brad Lidge still be shaky but get it done.

The phillies won the game and it seems that most of America (and TBS) still wants to believe that the Dodgers won...or at least 'gave' the game away.

If your ACE pitcher can't get through 5 innings - then he's not much of an ace then is he?

Hamels made a mistake too - he let something get to him - the dodgers 'got lucky' when the phllies biffed an inning ending double play that led to 3 runs being scored and making the game 5-4.

In baseball, mistakes are made, the dodgers got 14 hits last night (a franchise record for a playoff game by the way) but choked repeatedly in the situations that matters.

The Phillies won the game - both sides made tactical errors, the other side STILL has to capitalize on them - the phillies did the dodgers didn't.  Since all you seem to be able to do is read the slanted media recaps...what's the point?

[Reality]

Sorry - a clue towards what - that Clayton Kershaw IS NOT a rookie or that it's spelled Hamels?

I stand corrected, Homer.

At 21 years and 211 days, Clayton Kershaw was the youngest pitcher ever to start a Game 1 in a league championship series, and it showed.

[jemagee]

Next time you'll spell Hamels correctly too?

"It showed" huh?  through 4 innings he was damn near unhittable...pitches are not 'robots' and unflappable...cole hamels made mistakes last night again too...you read the papers, the papers lament about poor Clayton Kershaw - you lament about poor Clayton Kershaw...it's rather obvious you didn't watch the game...you just read the recaps.  And most recaps I've read are slanted towards pity for the dodgers and no credit for the phillies.

[Reality]

welcome back, but please, save your weaksause for the other side or better yet, leave it out.
Fabricating the "false card" when flailing in a discussion/debate is just uncalled for.
Falsely accusing me of not watching the game is beyond lame.

Kershaws 5th inning, during the meltdown (and not after) was enough to pull almost any pitcher long before it got to 5-1, let alone the youngest to start an NLDS game ever.
As for precedent, Torre pulled Randy Wolf in the 4th inning of less of a meltdown last years playoffs.

Sure from a Phillies perspective, you loved it.  Homer.
Try some objectivity.

[rickortreat]

I said the edge went to the Phillies based on their confidence. That showed last night, when Kershaw, who was an absolute stud through the first four innings got bombed in the 5th. Reality is right about one thing, Torre left him in too long. After the Homer, and he walked Hamels, you could tell Kershaw was in trouble. I would have pulled him then.  Leaving him in to face the top of the Phil's order was asking for it. After they got two more men on base, with Howard coming up, it was clear that Kershaw was done.

Torre did him and the Dodgers a real disservice. Howard's double was a killer and put the Phillies way out in front. The Dodgers aren't out of it yet by any means. They are a very good team, but they don't have a large margin for error. I thought a Dodgers strength was their relievers, but Torre's reluctance to pull Kershaw before more damage was done was the worst error in the game.

The Phillies can score, and have done so all season. They did all their damage in two innings. The Dodgers could have minimized the damage in the 5th, or at least tried to.  LA showed their mettle by chasing Hamels in the next inning. They got back within a run, and it was still anyone's game at that point.

The Dodgers did a great job of getting men on base, but the Phils relievers, allegedly a weakness stopped them from scoring. Give credit to Park, and Lidge and Happ for getting it done, and to Manuel for putting them in when he did.

Ibananez at bat is really what did the Dodgers in. The Phils needed every run they squeezed out of the Dodgers after Kershaw left to win.

Torre said the game was like a prize-fight and it was. Two teams slugging it out both showing why they deserved to be there. One of the best games in a long time!

The Phillies still have the edge. But the Dodgers are far from done, and have reason to believe they can still win the series. LA has to win the next game or the pressure will get to be too much.  The Phillies bats are relentless and Torre has to be very careful with his pitchers. I don't know why he was so reluctant to pull his starter, but he better not make that mistake again. Anyone could see Kershaw was rattled.

[jemagee]

welcome back, but please, save your weaksause for the other side or better yet, leave it out.
Fabricating the "false card" when flailing in a discussion/debate is just uncalled for.
Falsely accusing me of not watching the game is beyond lame.

Kershaws 5th inning, during the meltdown (and not after) was enough to pull almost any pitcher long before it got to 5-1, let alone the youngest to start an NLDS game ever.
As for precedent, Torre pulled Randy Wolf in the 4th inning of less of a meltdown last years playoffs.

Sure from a Phillies perspective, you loved it.  Homer.
Try some objectivity.

Not sure what the NLDS had to do with it (aside from the fact that Kershaw pitched pretty well against the Vaunted Cardainals offense)

Kershaw was bad - but if the bullpen had held the phillies - the dodgers win 6-5.

"Weaksause" - I'm not sure what that refers to - but inaccurate facts and the inability to spell a name properly from the beginning - I'm not sure how those qualify as 'strong' points of reference or any indication that you have any insight or special knowledge of me regarding the game last night or the out come.

Did Torre make a mistake - never said he didn't - did the philliies make mistakes last night - lots of em - both teams did - the phils capitalized better than the dodgers - the dodgers offense did MORE than enough to win a game if the 'vaunted' Dodgers bullpen showed up - but it didn't sherrill for instance hadn't given up a homer to a left hander all year - until last night - and THAT was the one that put the game truly out of reach - that's not Kershaws fault...Sherrill was terrible too and fortunately Joe Torre left him in there long. 

There were many 'pivotal' moments last night that could have swung the game in either direction, the media (and you) seem focused on one - but the dodgers made it 5-4 and even scored more total runs than kershaw gave up...sure kershaw is probably 'saddled' with the loss - but it's a team loss top to bottom and kershaw will bear more blame than he should. 

Per usual, giving the phillies credit seems beyond the ability of most folk - but that's just fine - continue to not give them credit - i'm sure they'll continue to win...

I do hope the phillies remember that Padilla really isn't a good pitcher this afternoon - could be fun

[rickortreat]

The Phillies got rid of Padillia. We loved him while he was here, but the team knew they needed someone stronger.

Kind of ironic that the Phils are throwing an ex-Dodger back at them in Pedro!

Please stop all this nonsense and just enjoy the game! These two teams have a lot of talent and seem to have quite a few players who used to be on the other side. Even the coaches- Bowa was a Philly, Lopes was a Dodger. And both teams have players who used to be in Cleveland before winding up in Phila. or LA. Jim Thome and Charlie Manuel to name a few.

There isn't a whole lot of difference in the level of talent, and the manager's decisions will probably determine the outcome. As I said, before this game is crucial for the Dodgers. They can't go into Phila. down 2-0 and face Cliff Lee or Joe Blanton and expect to stay in the series. They have lost home-field advantage, and Phila. is not a friendly place for visiting teams. The weather is getting crappy here too.

[jemagee]

Both Padilla and Pedro have pitched amazingly well today...

[jemagee]

And then the phils bullpen (with an assist from some lousy defense) crap the bed in the 8th...sigh...1-1 is 'good' but 2-0 would have been better

[RickyPryor]

And then the phils bullpen (with an assist from some lousy defense) crap the bed in the 8th...sigh...1-1 is 'good' but 2-0 would have been better

Charlie over-managed and Chase has turned into Chuck Knoblauch.

[rickortreat]

An error by Utley cost us the lead. And Charley made a mistake pulling his relief pitcher too fast and going to another.

As you say 1-1 isn't bad, but now it's a series and LA can feel good about themselves. The Phillies kind of blew this one, wasting a great outing by Pedro.

I said it would come down to manageing and this time Manuel screwed up. But Chase missing Howard by a mile, that was unexpected and quite a mistake.

[tk76-]

moron Joe ...

...Manny wanted to be the selfish hero when a walk would have been okay, instead hacked at about anything he offered.

1.  Since when is Torre a moron?  He's pretty well regarded.

2.  That was just Manny being Manny, right?  I thought Dodger fans all love him and forgive any misdiscretions?...  Actually its more like Manny being 37.  He can't hit some of the pitches he used to, but he still swings the same way.