Did the Cambridgfe Mass. police act stupidly in arresting Harvard Professor

[Ted]

I am done with this thread.  I can argue any way I want.  I also am entitled to my opposing view.  You are not right.  I am also not saying I am right.  Just stating what I believe.  After JoMal being Shrek's side kick, I am done.  Period point blank.

I swear this has happened before.

[JoMal]

Well, at least you are not an obsessed and overly protective old ass with bean counting issues.

[rickortreat]

Anybody notice that the arresting officer filed a false REPORT?  In his report, Crowley claims he spoke with the woman who called the police about the potential break in, prior to going to the house. The Woman has gone on record as saying she never spoke to a police officer.

The Police officer is lying about what happened, and arrested a man who proved who he was and that he in fact had the right to be there.  THAT IS STUPID, and it's not the kind of behavior you want from the police that are there to protect you.

Gates may every well have acted stupidly himself, but the police absolutely look stupid for arresting a man from his own home!

Gates has the right to be stupid, although it's pretty shameful for a Harvard Professor to scream at a policeman in front of his home, who is trying to make sure his property is safe.

A little common sense and cool headedness would have gone a long way. That Gates didn't act reasonably is shamefull, but what the Police Officer did here is well beyond the pale. He arrested a man from his own home and filed a false report.

How is that not STUPID?

[westkoast]

You are not right.  I am also not saying I am right.

Penultimate example of the inadequacy of your ability to debate. I'm not right, you're not right, and moral relevance once again rears its evil head, perfect 'koast, perfect.

 

Really?  Or is it a situation where

A) No one was actually there to say WHAT REALLY HAPPEND

B) The Police report has inconsistencies and is only ONE account so it cannot be used to tell the whole story

How can you fully debate and say one person is wrong or not with out being there LFD?  That's my point.  You cannot say you are right because you were not there to say for sure.  Neither was I.  All we can do is give our OPINIONS of what we think happened but doesn't make it fact.

If there were actual facts from both sides, rather than he said/she said, then maybe you could really debate.  Us arguing here on what we assumed to have happened doesn't really make for a good debate. 

[Ted]

I was wondering if we would hear something like this. I've been wondering what the African-American officer in the foreground of koast's picture thought of the situation.

Below is an excerpt of a new article on CNN.

Two black officers on the Cambridge force have stood solidly by their comrade.

Sgt. Leon Lashley was outside Gates' house when the professor was arrested. He has no problems with the way Crowley handled the situation.

"It happened to be a white officer on a black man, and the common call a lot of times is to call it a racist situation," said Lashley. "This situation right here was not a racial-motivated situation. ... There's nothing rogue about him. He was doing his job."

Lashley acknowledged that if he, as a black officer, had entered the home first, it likely would've been a different outcome.

Kelly King, another African-American Cambridge officer, said she has known Crowley for more than a decade and that he's "a good police officer, a good man with character."

"I think Professor Gates has done a very good job of throwing up a very effective smokescreen, calling race into this. It had nothing to do with it," she told CNN's Don Lemon with Crowley at her side.

She said people who have turned against Crowley need to "keep their minds open and realize that we would not support someone that we felt wronged someone else. ... We would not support anyone in blue doing the wrong thing."

When she finished speaking, she and Crowley embraced. "You've got to be touched by that," CNN's Lemon said.

The officer at the center of the controversy nodded his head, fighting off tears.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/30/gates.arrest.recap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[JoMal]

[A) No one was actually there to say WHAT REALLY HAPPEND

I kept on thinking about this comment until the absurdity of it finally came to me.

[westkoast]

Ted,

I was wondering if you saw the article where another police officer called him a jungle monkey.  Why bring this up?  Well to point out that not only do racist cops exist but they are in the same police department AND cops in Boston have had a long history of being racist.

A Boston police officer was placed on administrative leave after he allegedly used a racial slur when referring to Henry Louis Gates Jr.
Watch Report

Boston Globe
In a mass e-mail, Officer Justin Barrett, 36, called Gates a "jungle monkey," according to a law enforcement source.
Gates, a black Harvard scholar, was arrested at his home earlier this month on a disorderly conduct charge after he tried to budge open the door of his Cambridge home.
Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis found out about the e-mail on Tuesday and immediately stripped Barrett of his gun and badge, officials said. The e-mail was first sent anonymously to the Boston Globe and then to local members of the National Guard, where he is a member.

I mean yea, again, police never take up for each other!  Never has happened in this history of police work.....

Oh wait, other cops supported the ones who beat Rodney King senseless....

Now let's think about this Ted, logically.  Would another cop come out to speak against a fellow cop which would then alienate him from the rest of the police force and jeopardize his job? In a recession none the less.... Think about that for a second.  Get back to me after.

[westkoast]

[A) No one was actually there to say WHAT REALLY HAPPEND

I kept on thinking about this comment until the absurdity of it finally came to me.

Oh so Dan or I were there?  People on this message board were there to know what went down?  Cuz that is what I was reffering to.  Did you take some classes with Reality on spinning peoples quotes and not bringing in the whole paragraph that was said?  Because CLEARLY I was speaking to Dan that the 'debate' around here can't really be one much farther than us giving our opinions on what WE thought happened since 'no one was there to really say what happened'

As far as absurd, is that like an old man so upset ON A MESSAGE BOARD that he had to take a shot at someones children or how they view children?  Even tho I don't have any, it doesn't matter because you thought I did and made an asinine comment. 

[Ted]

Ted,

I was wondering if you saw the article where another police officer called him a jungle monkey.  Why bring this up?  Well to point out that not only do racist cops exist but they are in the same police department AND cops in Boston have had a long history of being racist.

A Boston police officer was placed on administrative leave after he allegedly used a racial slur when referring to Henry Louis Gates Jr.
Watch Report

Boston Globe
In a mass e-mail, Officer Justin Barrett, 36, called Gates a "jungle monkey," according to a law enforcement source.
Gates, a black Harvard scholar, was arrested at his home earlier this month on a disorderly conduct charge after he tried to budge open the door of his Cambridge home.
Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis found out about the e-mail on Tuesday and immediately stripped Barrett of his gun and badge, officials said. The e-mail was first sent anonymously to the Boston Globe and then to local members of the National Guard, where he is a member.

I mean yea, again, police never take up for each other!  Never has happened in this history of police work.....

Oh wait, other cops supported the ones who beat Rodney King senseless....

Now let's think about this Ted, logically.  Would another cop come out to speak against a fellow cop which would then alienate him from the rest of the police force and jeopardize his job? In a recession none the less.... Think about that for a second.  Get back to me after.

Sorry. I thought about it. You're point that there are stupid, racist cops out there is of course valid. This Sergeant Barrett is a fool and will soon be out of a job. Funny how none of his buddies are standing up for him. All he did was voice his racial tendencies. Crowley supposedly acted on them. Which is worse?

I'm going to have to take the comments at face value. Especially since one of them fits that all-important criteria that you placed on this situation . . . HE WAS ACTUALLY THERE. (Here's where you back off that statement because it no longer suits you.)

It's okay Koast. I know you're never backing off your position. I can respect the fact that you want to hold your ground in this debate. But I can't respect how you're trying to do it, and I think that is what bugs Dan, JoMal, and me. You twist every fact to fit your argument. You back off your own statements when they don't suit you, and you pick up new facts when the others have failed you. Now, it seems, no Cambridge/Boston cop (African-American or otherwise) can be trusted to be true and honest about this situation.

Sometimes it's good to stand up in front of opposition for what you believe, but that often results in you looking like one of those poor people walking down the street yelling at the voices in their heads. Trust me, I know what you're going through right now.

[WayOutWest]

You guys debate like teenage girls.  In fact my teenage girl would run circles around all of you in a debate/discussion!    I could argue either side of this debate and beat any of you into the ground.  I'm really disappointed in the effort put forth by all of you! 

P.S. I'm not kidding.

[Ted]

Another interesting excerpt:

Meanwhile, a black Cambridge police sergeant on the scene the day of Gates' arrest wrote a letter to Crowley, asking him to mention to Gates and Obama that he is now known as the "black sergeant" and to some others as an "uncle Tom."

"I'm forced to ponder the notion that as a result of speaking the truth and coming to the defense of a friend and colleague, who just happens to be white, that I have somehow betrayed my heritage," Sgt. Leon Lashley wrote. "Please convey my concerns to the president that Mr. Gates' actions may have caused grave and potentially irreparable harm to the struggle for racial harmony in this country and perhaps throughout the world."

Lashley wrote in the letter he would like Gates to reflect on the incident and ask himself what responsibility he bears, what he can do to heal the rift and what he can do to mitigate the damage done to the officers' reputations.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/30/harvard.arrest.beers/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[Ted]

You guys debate like teenage girls.  In fact my teenage girl would run circles around all of you in a debate/discussion!    I could argue either side of this debate and beat any of you into the ground.  I'm really disappointed in the effort put forth by all of you! 

P.S. I'm not kidding.

I really tried hard to take this seriously, but it's just too funny.

Classic armchair quarterback response. A guy who is either too lazy, too stupid, or too ambivalent to put for ANY EFFORT AT ALL is castigating those who did.

P.S. I'm not kidding.
 

[westkoast]

Ted isn't part of debating taking points and fitting to the side you are arguing on?  You are doing just the same.  As is LFD.  Isn't that how layers debate in court?  They will argue their side from the clients point of view?

I don't care who I am pissing off to be quite honest because it's stupid to get pissed off about.  This is a debate on a message board and I am entitled to my opinion.  If someone is getting upset because I am voicing my own opinion that is their problem and not mine.   My arguments were valid, they just were not coming from the side of you 3, that is not wrong.  There is more than one side to any story and more than one perspective.     Again this goes back to my point that NONE of us where actually there so it is not like you can say 'no koast you are wrong because I was there as an unbias 3rd party'  In fact there was no account from an unbias 3rd party.  It was Gates vs Cops.   The basis of your guys argument is on a police report but ignoring Gates.  I am taking Gates story into consideration and not giving as much weight to the police report because there is a lie in it (he did not talk to that woman nor did she say it was black guys).  I know Gates story is bias and I know the police report is bias.  That is why I said that no one can really say they are right.  It's just their opinion.   I could be wrong, I could be right.  You guys could be right and you could just as easy be wrong.

This is not directed at you as much as it is that grumpy old man Jomal and my fellow Laker buddy Dan.  I think it is wrong that JoMal's comments are being swept under the rug.  What he said was very uncalled for, unwarranted, and just placed him on Reality's level as far as I am concerned.  I crack jokes about the posters here but I don't take shots at family and especially would not make a comment a long the lines of 'Hay Ted you don't care if your daughter could get raped, why not show her on the screen how much you really care about her'  Again, I do not have kids but it doesn't mean that the level of disrespect in what he got at was wayyy over the top.  He actually thought I had kids.   LFD seems more concerned with people cussing than he does something like this because he's pissed off I am not in agreement with him? Come on...

As far as what has happened, they seemed to move on.  They both agreed that they could have handled things different when they sat down with Obama and Biden.  That is something we ALL should agree on if they in fact did the same.  They were there and we were not.

[Ted]

I think it is wrong that JoMal's comments are being swept under the rug.

Hey, every family has the uncle with the crazy sense of humor who gets away with everything.

What he said was very uncalled for, unwarranted, and just placed him on Reality's level as far as I am concerned.

Now you're confusing him with the crazy uncle with no sense of humor.

He actually thought I had kids.

Now that would be scary. 

As far as what has happened, they seemed to move on.  They both agreed that they could have handled things different when they sat down with Obama and Biden.

Where did you read that? All I've heard is that it was a cordial discussion but that no one apologized. That was made very clear.

[rickortreat]

I'm a bit disapointed to tell the truth. I thought Colin Powel was right when he said they both needed an adult to step in.

Agian, without being there and no objective 3rd party to tell us what really happened, we know the policeman had a legitmate concern to be there, and Gates had the right to be there. We also know Gates got ticked off at the cop and started getting loud. (Very childish professor, I mean, really!) The Police officer decided to pull rank and show this Harvard Intellectual that he a cop could drag him off in cuffs.

Both of them should have apologized, In fact this should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED, and it's pretty pathetic that grown up professionals behaved this way.