Did the Cambridgfe Mass. police act stupidly in arresting Harvard Professor

[Laker Fan]

Too much to comment on here "Koast, suffice to say, you are so very wrong here it is mind boggling. I would take the time myself to destroy your fatuous and and ridiculous assertions but between Lurker, JoMal, and especially Ted, you are standing there quite clearly with you pants around your ankles, your argument in favor of this pathetic poseur of a professor are easily your most embarrassing moment on this board.

[westkoast]

Too much to comment on here "Koast, suffice to say, you are so very wrong here it is mind boggling. I would take the time myself to destroy your fatuous and and ridiculous assertions but between Lurker, JoMal, and especially Ted, you are standing there quite clearly with you pants around your ankles, your argument in favor of this pathetic poseur of a professor are easily your most embarrassing moment on this board.

The bold right there keeps me from really carrying what you think on this situation to be quite honest.  Sounds to be like you are taking this a little too far and already have a built in problem, for whatever reason.  He is a very well decorated professor with quite a career.

What I do find funny is someone from Los Angeles acting like that a police report is always 'factual' and tells the entire story.  You do know, as a perfect example in YOUR backyard, that PLENTY of people have been released from jail because of falsefied police reports and testimony in this very county.  Not saying this applies to every single cop or department everywhere but let's not act like a police report is always 'factual' and 'non-bias'

The only 'facts' anyone can prove beyond a reasonable doubt is both these guys let their ego escalate this to where it did not need to go.  I just can't say that demanding a badge number is the same as taking a person out of their home, get them finger printed, mug shot taken, and have them sit in a cell until they could be picked up.

[Laker Fan]

Sounds to be like you are taking this a little too far and already have a built in problem, for whatever reason.  He is a very well decorated professor with quite a career.

Yeah, my problem is with anyone even remotely looking at a minority they are automatically racist, I AM a minority, Native American and Hispanic, I have dealt with racist LA County Sheriffs, and I also am smart enough to know how counterproductive it is to be antagonistic when a cop is just doing his job. Your uber elite supersmart professor is clearly either too stupid to know better than escalate what should have been a simple matter by cooperating with a cop doing his job or he had an agenda, to provoke an incident so he could play the race card, I tend to believe it to be the latter based on his past comments and the curriculum of his class at Harvard. Now while I certainly agree profiling exists, your assertion in this thread that this is such an example, your readily disparaging a cop for doing his job, your loudly proclaiming this "average" professor with an "average" Harvard career but a nice history of painting people as racist is laughable on its face, and a sad commentary on what society is programmed to believe by men such as Gates and Sharpton as well.

What I do find funny is someone from Los Angeles acting like that a police report is always 'factual' and tells the entire story.

What I find funny is you proving facts matter little to you as I never acted like anything regarding a police report, never mentioned one, never said I believed one regarding this incident, and never said a police report tells the entire story.

Your assumptions are as silly as Rick claiming this man is a Harvard Law Professor, no basis in fact but rather what appears to be a desire stand up for a perceived injustice, let me clue you in 'Koast, not all black men are innocent, and not all white people are racist, in fact, the biggest racist in this country, or at least the one with the biggest bully pulpit, is not white, he's black, he sure is not a man of God as his title indicates, and his name is Al Sharpton. I've lived through the racism of the 60's and 70's, trust me, you have no idea of what you speak.

[JoMal]

No, you are wrong.  He walked INTO the house after seeing the ID.

"Gates told the officer he lived there and showed him his Massachusetts driver's license and Harvard University identification card. The officer followed him into his house and said he had received a report of a possible break-in, the lawyer said. Gates grew frustrated that the officer was continuing to question him in his home and asked for the officer's name and badge number," Ogletree said.

Man, sometimes you come across so dense it feels like you need to cut your crap with a knife. So what if Gates showed that he lived there and showed he had a valid ID? SO WHAT?


SO WHAT?


Where, then, were the two guys reported to have broken into his house? Two guys who were not immediately identified as being black? Where would a cop look to see if the house was secured from the two guys who had been reported breaking into his house? Two guys, not two black guys, just two guys. No mention of one having a tucked in polo shirt and using a cane, just two guys breaking in a door. At Gates' house. Do you think, possibly, the cop was trying to protect Gates, who may not have been aware two guys had been reported to have broken into his house? And might still be inside, you know, looking for polo shirts and stuff and Gates may not be aware his shirts were being violated? Or.....he DID know they were inside, but something really terrible was going on instead?

Try understanding what a cop might be thinking PRIOR to the owner throwing the race card in his face for making sure the owner/renter of the house was safe? Try to think how YOU would want them to handle a case where a neighbor thought he saw a man sneaking out your daughter's window and called 9-1-1? Maybe it was a boyfriend making his escape....or maybe not. Either way, you didn't know what was going on. A cop shows up, asked if you live there and maybe were messing with a window or something. And you are not white, so you call the cop names and demand to see his badge and tell him to get off your property, or whatever Gates did during the additional questioning...



......and now imagine that it wasn't a boyfriend crawling out the window after all, but a rapist...or a killer.

You can claim this cop was overreacting from the start, but there is a reason they follow protocol, coast. A very, very, very, very important reason. Occasionally, there IS a bad guy standing behind the door with a gun on the home owner, instructing him to get rid of the cop or you are both dead.


My God, you are something.

[westkoast]

Yeah, my problem is with anyone even remotely looking at a minority they are automatically racist, I AM a minority, Native American and Hispanic, I have dealt with racist LA County Sheriffs, and I also am smart enough to know how counterproductive it is to be antagonistic when a cop is just doing his job. Your uber elite supersmart professor is clearly either too stupid to know better than escalate what should have been a simple matter by cooperating with a cop doing his job or he had an agenda, to provoke an incident so he could play the race card, I tend to believe it to be the latter based on his past comments and the curriculum of his class at Harvard. Now while I certainly agree profiling exists, your assertion in this thread that this is such an example, your readily disparaging a cop for doing his job, your loudly proclaiming this "average" professor with an "average" Harvard career but a nice history of painting people as racist is laughable on its face, and a sad commentary on what society is programmed to believe by men such as Gates and Sharpton as well.

If you can provide a logical reason, other than 'oh he didn't know if he was a burglar or not', as to why you would approach a man in such a manner that you would make them feel like a criminal please let me hear it.  I am all ears on to how a middle aged man standing in his home, not with a nap sack, or running around, could not get the benefit of the doubt that he was not a burglar.

I'd tend to agree if it looked like he was stealing stuff or he looked scared when a cop showed up or maybe he was a younger street cat or tried to run.  None of this applies though.  

What I find funny is you proving facts matter little to you as I never acted like anything regarding a police report, never mentioned one, never said I believed one regarding this incident, and never said a police report tells the entire story.

The fact that you are backing up what Ted is saying alludes to that LFD.  You can't say you 100% agree with Ted and then turn around to say 'never acted like anything regarding a police report'  Ted's entire argument is based on the police report.  So yea LFD just because you didn't outright say it doesn't mean you never 'acted like anything'  Re-Read Ted's arguments.

Your assumptions are as silly as Rick claiming this man is a Harvard Law Professor, no basis in fact but rather what appears to be a desire stand up for a perceived injustice, let me clue you in 'Koast, not all black men are innocent, and not all white people are racist, in fact, the biggest racist in this country, or at least the one with the biggest bully pulpit, is not white, he's black, he sure is not a man of God as his title indicates, and his name is Al Sharpton. I've lived through the racism of the 60's and 70's, trust me, you have no idea of what you speak.

I don't care who is more racist, which other people are racist, or any of that.  That doesn't apply here. We are speaking on a specific instance.  I can just as easily answer that by saying 'When I get pulled over by myself in a nice area I am given the benefit of the doubt I am not doing anything wrong because of my skin color'  But that's not the point.  We are not discussing race in a general sense.  We are discussing the fact this guy couldn't get the benefit of the doubt even though he looks like Bill Frickin Cosby and not Tupac Shakur.

Not all black men are innocent and not all black men are guilty just the same.  

[westkoast]

Man, sometimes you come across so dense it feels like you need to cut your crap with a knife. So what if Gates showed that he lived there and showed he had a valid ID? SO WHAT?


SO WHAT?

I am dense yet you can't wrap ya head around the simple idea that his VALID DRIVERS LICENSE SHOWED THE ADDRESS THEY WERE AT?  REALLY?  You don't understand why that would be important to bring up?

Where, then, were the two guys reported to have broken into his house? Two guys who were not immediately identified as being black? Where would a cop look to see if the house was secured from the two guys who had been reported breaking into his house? Two guys, not two black guys, just two guys. No mention of one having a tucked in polo shirt and using a cane, just two guys breaking in a door. At Gates' house. Do you think, possibly, the cop was trying to protect Gates, who may not have been aware two guys had been reported to have broken into his house? And might still be inside, you know, looking for polo shirts and stuff and Gates may not be aware his shirts were being violated? Or.....he DID know they were inside, but something really terrible was going on instead?

The two guys who were reported to have broken in the house were the ones standing right in front of the cop.  You know one of which who proved he lived there.  The cop responded right away.  Not 2 hours later.  So the excuse that 'maybe they ran off' doesn't apply here.

Do you think possibly the officer came up saying that TWO men were trying to break into the house to TWO MEN who were standing there to say that it was them and proceeded to provide an ID?

When you walk up to a middle aged man in a tucked in polo shirt do you get the vibe of day time burglar?  Burglaries tend to be done by young males.  Not older males.

Try understanding what a cop might be thinking PRIOR to the owner throwing the race card in his face for making sure the owner/renter of the house was safe? Try to think how YOU would want them to handle a case where a neighbor thought he saw a man sneaking out your daughter's window and called 9-1-1? Maybe it was a boyfriend making his escape....or maybe not. Either way, you didn't know what was going on. A cop shows up, asked if you live there and maybe were messing with a window or something. And you are not white, so you call the cop names and demand to see his badge and tell him to get off your property, or whatever Gates did during the additional questioning...

Try understanding what a cop might be thinking AFTER being threatened by a guy who wants to report him to superiors....I mean it's not like cops get pissed at people for not kissing their feet during even the most routine traffic stops.

Your situation with the daughter/boyfriend in a side window is different.  It does not directly involve that person.  It involves someone LEAVING the house in the middle of the night.   HORRIBLE example.  Just down right horrible.  Apples and oranges.  Besides, what if it was established that it was the girls boyfriend?  Would they need to go track him down, accuse him of being a rapist, take him to jail, and then realize maybe it was a bad idea?

Now let's think if you just got home after counting beans all day.  You pull up to your house and when you go to open the door you notice its stuck.  You ask your co-worker to come help you open the door.  Once inside a cop shows up and tells you 'We had a report someone was trying to break into this house'  You respond saying 'No this is my house, I couldn't get in'  The cop then proceeds to make you feel like a criminal as oppose to a civil servant who does good in Sacramento.  Would you be happy?  After providing a Valid Drivers license with your address on it AND showing your badge for the government building you are still being asked questions after making it clear YOU were the person trying to get into the house, would you be happy?

My guess would be no.  Do I think that you would escalate farther than it needed to go?  I don't know you well enough to say if you have an ego NOR do I know how you act after coming home from a trip.

You can claim this cop was overreacting from the start, but there is a reason they follow protocol, coast. A very, very, very, very important reason. Occasionally, there IS a bad guy standing behind the door with a gun on the home owner, instructing him to get rid of the cop or you are both dead.


My God, you are something.

I can claim that.  Just as you can claim that Gates was the who started it all.  As far as following protocol, not everyone does that.  Other than asking for ID you don't know what the protocol is do you?  Isn't it protocol to give your badge number and information when asked as well?  Or no?  I thought it was.  Correct me if I am wrong.

You using this far fetched, absolute worst scenarios possible is doing nothing.

  Though JoMal I do appreciate you pointing out that the lady never said it was two black males breaking into the house.....except that was in the police report.  She went on record as saying she never identified what race they were.  The police report that Ted is so dead set on being filled with 'facts' well, isn't all that factual.

[Laker Fan]

Hokey Smokes 'koast! Methinks perhaps you have painted yourself into a corner here and now you can't get out so you're choosing to go down with the ship! Either that or JoMal is right and you really are that dense, or so hung up on being PC that this stinkbug professor HAS to be in the right. You are coming off VERY hypocritical by saying on the one hand, because he is a an old gentleman in a tucked in polo shirt he MUST be innocent, or at least given the benefit of the doubt, but some thug life lookin' clown is probably guilty because after all, he looks like Tupac! Your reasoning is so nebulous as to be non-existent.

Oh and BTW, rumor has it OJ Simpson was wearing a tucked in polo shirt when he slaughtered 2 innocent people, funny how he looks like Bill Cosby.

[JoMal]

And what are you accomplishing, coast?

At what point does a policeman stop doing his job of securing a scene to the satisfaction of the one person who cares, apparently? ME! Because none of the scenarios you think are overreactions by the cop are anywhere NEAR overreactions to me, or to Dan, or to Ted, or to Joe, or to Doug, or to anyone who has ever needed a cop to be diligent.

And I am real glad to hear you don't give a rat's ass about the safety of your daughter. You might show her your posts here to show how much you care about her.

[westkoast]

And what are you accomplishing, coast?

At what point does a policeman stop doing his job of securing a scene to the satisfaction of the one person who cares, apparently? ME! Because none of the scenarios you think are overreactions by the cop are anywhere NEAR overreactions to me, or to Dan, or to Ted, or to Joe, or to Doug, or to anyone who has ever needed a cop to be diligent.

And I am real glad to hear you don't give a rat's ass about the safety of your daughter. You might show her your posts here to show how much you care about her.

Number 1, I don't have children.

Number 2, if I did I find it in VERY BAD TASTE for you to try to take a shot like that.  That's pretty pathetic on your part.  Out of all the things you've ever said to me, I never been offended.  For you to even insinuate that if I had a daughter, like you thought, that I wouldn't care if she could have got 'raped' is disgusting.   You are a POS quite frankly.

Number 3, your example was dumb and a worst case scenario that was unrelated to what actually happened.  A person escaping through a window is not the same as a person going into a house and telling the cop 'ya it was me who they must have called about, I live here'  Don't try to take personal shots at me because YOUR example didn't apply.

Number 4, if you want to be condescending take another approach rather than spelling my nick name on a message board wrong.  The young jokes are much better.

Hokey Smokes 'koast! Methinks perhaps you have painted yourself into a corner here and now you can't get out so you're choosing to go down with the ship! Either that or JoMal is right and you really are that dense, or so hung up on being PC that this stinkbug professor HAS to be in the right. You are coming off VERY hypocritical by saying on the one hand, because he is a an old gentleman in a tucked in polo shirt he MUST be innocent, or at least given the benefit of the doubt, but some thug life lookin' clown is probably guilty because after all, he looks like Tupac! Your reasoning is so nebulous as to be non-existent.

Oh and BTW, rumor has it OJ Simpson was wearing a tucked in polo shirt when he slaughtered 2 innocent people, funny how he looks like Bill Cosby.

I am not hung up on being PC.  I am hung up on police officers using their power over regular citizens to do what they feel in instances where their ego gets bruised.

Now who is trying to be PC?  You are the one who is saying that a middle aged man in a polo shirt should be give the same benefit of the doubt as a 20-something year old in tats, a backwards hat, looking like Tupac.....

Needless to say more homes get robbed by guys dressing like hip hoppers than they do by guys looking like Bill Cosby.

As for your OJ example, he had blood all over his car.  There was clear evidence he committed a crime.  What crime was committed here again?

[Laker Fan]

A person escaping through a window is not the same as a person going into a house and telling the cop 'ya it was me who they must have called about, I live here'

Continuing to assume facts not in evidence huh? Wow, if that is what Gates really said we should just lock this stupid racist cop and throw away the key! And while I'm at it, explain to me how a cop, walking up to a front door that has been clearly broken into, with all the splintered wood and all that that accompanies just such an action, assume anything different than seeing someone coming out a window, maybe that's how some cultures exit their house no?

[westkoast]

Dan what is your evidence?  Based on the police report that had inconsistencies in it?  Like where the report says he talked to the women who said she saw two black men with back packs but on the audio recording never said that?  Even as far as saying she never did multiple times.

Again, evidence and facts are not entirely based on he said/she said situations are they?  That's what this is.

I am done with this thread.  I can argue any way I want.  I also am entitled to my opposing view.  You are not right.  I am also not saying I am right.  Just stating what I believe.  After JoMal being Shrek's side kick, I am done.  Period point blank.

[JoMal]

Number 1, I don't have children.

Not so oddly, this is very good to know.

Number 2, if I did I find it in VERY BAD TASTE for you to try to take a shot like that.  That's pretty pathetic on your part.  Out of all the things you've ever said to me, I never been offended.  For you to even insinuate that if I did had a daughter, like you thought, that I wouldn't care if she could have got 'raped' is disgusting.

It was meant to be disgusting, coast. You have no idea how completely offensive your arguement is becoming and frankly you need to feel it. This IS personal and what you think is overreaction will kill people and you need to think about that.

Number 3, your example was dumb and a worst case scenario that was unrelated to what actually happened.  A person escaping through a window is not the same as a person going into a house and telling the cop 'ya it was me who they must have called about, I live here'  Don't try to take personal shots at me because YOUR example didn't apply.

I am not interested in whether or not my example applies. Domestic calls do not have a set formula or outcome and never have. Each side has their own script. It is the policemans' job to figure out the script on the other side and all I was providing was another angle. The unknown is the point. I really do not care if Gates or you know what the script might be on the cops side, but whether it is me in the house, you in the house, or Gates, it really makes a difference to play your part so the cop can secure YOU! or me! or Gates.

And come to think of it, doesn't that photo of Gates' arrest show a cop in the background. With his BADGE <and i assume his BADGE NUMBER, I would guess> clearly visable to GATES??  

God almighty  

Number 4, if you want to be condescending take another approach rather than spelling my nick name on a message board wrong.  The young jokes are much better.

Really? So.....to take the condescension a step further, we can play the idiot jokes in regards to you, right, KOAST? Let that stuff go, and just try to get back to the topic here, okay?

I am not hung up on being PC.  I am hung up on police officers using their power over regular citizens to do what they feel in instances where their ego gets bruised.

Why didn't you just say you offended by police officers in general, then? Maybe regular citizens should figure out there might be a wrong way to deal with being "harassed" by the police and just work around those issues before the ego-bruised cops actually respond to their antics and put them in handcuffs? It certainly worked to control the situation once and for all in this case.

[Ted]

I am dense yet you can't wrap ya head around the simple idea that his VALID DRIVERS LICENSE SHOWED THE ADDRESS THEY WERE AT?  REALLY?  You don't understand why that would be important to bring up?

If he were arrested for being in the wrong house, that would be important. He was not arrested for being in the wrong house koast. He was arrested for disorderly conduct.

[Laker Fan]

You are not right.  I am also not saying I am right.

Penultimate example of the inadequacy of your ability to debate. I'm not right, you're not right, and moral relevance once again rears its evil head, perfect 'koast, perfect.

[Ted]

Now let's think if you just got home after counting beans all day.  You pull up to your house and when you go to open the door you notice its stuck.  You ask your co-worker to come help you open the door.  Once inside a cop shows up and tells you 'We had a report someone was trying to break into this house'  You respond saying 'No this is my house, I couldn't get in'.

I like this scenario. It's what should have happened. It's what did happen (according to both sides) up until Gates hollered "No I will not" instead of "No this is my house, I couldn't get in."

Koast, did you really just post that?