Author Topic: Who is the NBA player of the decade?  (Read 12730 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« on: June 14, 2009, 11:51:37 PM »
I think the Lakers just cemented the title of "Team of the Decade" but who gets the title of "Player of the Decade"?

IMO it comes down to two guys: Shaq and Duncan.

IMO the title goes to Shaq because he was so dominant and he accomplished the "Threepeat".  I think a case can be made for Duncan and I would like to hear it.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 01:45:56 AM »
I'll bring up some arguments for Tim Duncan since I am wide awake from the Lakers win and am trying to fall asleep heh....

- He is the one player that took the Spurs from a small market team to the 3rd best franchise in the league according to the link you posted the other day.  The Lakers were a great franchise before Shaq landed.

- Tim Duncan is a better and more consistent defender than Shaq.  Shaq, suffering from Lakerdefenseitis, took many many MANY plays off defensively.  Especially when he wasn't getting touches.

- He won more MVPs.  Also, over the past 4 years has been in the hunt for another.  Same can't be said for Shaq.

- He is a better rebounder than Shaq and a more consistent FT shooter (statistically speaking)
 
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Offline jn

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 08:57:02 AM »
Duncan has also won titles without Kobe or Wade. 
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2009, 09:15:37 AM »
Duncan has also won titles without Kobe or Wade. 

But he had Manu for 3 of them!   ;)
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 10:53:52 AM »
While Duncan and O'Neal represent a greater dominance on the court, I don't think that anyone can deny that Kobe Bryant is the player of this decade.

Bryant has 4 titles and 6 finals appearances (so far), which is more than either Duncan or O'Neal.  Every news story has centered on Kobe moreso than on any player:  Kobe wants a trade, Kobe and Shaq are fighting, Kobe's accused of rape, Kobe's a free agent, Kobe is getting/commiting flagrant fouls, did Kobe quit on his team, will Kobe get another title to catch Shaq....

There's been no player more in the consciousness of fans around the game than Kobe Bryant.  Like him or hate him, as the most polarizing figure in NBA basketball, he well-defines the 00's decade:  divisive, self-centered and self-interested, and ultimately, the biggest spectacle - whether you're watching him win a championship or watching him crash and burn.  In a culture dominated by reality TV, how can anyone say that the NBA's biggest name in the decade isn't Kobe Bryant - the very definiton of reality basketball?

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Offline westkoast

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 11:36:17 AM »
While Duncan and O'Neal represent a greater dominance on the court, I don't think that anyone can deny that Kobe Bryant is the player of this decade.

Bryant has 4 titles and 6 finals appearances (so far), which is more than either Duncan or O'Neal.  Every news story has centered on Kobe moreso than on any player:  Kobe wants a trade, Kobe and Shaq are fighting, Kobe's accused of rape, Kobe's a free agent, Kobe is getting/commiting flagrant fouls, did Kobe quit on his team, will Kobe get another title to catch Shaq....

There's been no player more in the consciousness of fans around the game than Kobe Bryant.  Like him or hate him, as the most polarizing figure in NBA basketball, he well-defines the 00's decade:  divisive, self-centered and self-interested, and ultimately, the biggest spectacle - whether you're watching him win a championship or watching him crash and burn.  In a culture dominated by reality TV, how can anyone say that the NBA's biggest name in the decade isn't Kobe Bryant - the very definiton of reality basketball?





An argument to that is that Shaq helped Kobe to 4 of those trips, he is still brought up almost as much as Kobe is between the 'how my a^$ taste freestyle' and Kobe snitching on Shaq to the cops during the rape allegations.  Even now the finals still have the stench of Shaq on them with Orlando not making it to the finals since he left and the Lakers not winning a title since he left.  Not to mention Shaq is still one of the players teams in this league seek to try to win a title.  Miami did it.  The Suns made an attempt.  Looks like the Cavs will follow suit.

If Kobe continues to win I agree with you.  Right now I think a case can be made for Duncan, Shaq, and now Kobe (based on your post).  If by some crazy accident/stroke of luck the Cavs ended up with Shaq and got to the promise land Kobe could be bumped out just like that.  3 teams, 3 titles, helped the development of the 3 biggest stars in the league.....

One thing you also forgot to mention about Kobe is the gold medal, being the leader in restoring our dominance in world basketball, and influencing the younger guys under him to have a better, more dedicated work ethic.   I  think you are being a bit harsh  in only bringing up times he has been divisive and self centered.  The guy also showed that people can be humbled and learn from their mistakes.  I think he has and that's a big reason why the Lakers are a better team and have a title again.  However, you are right in the sense that this league has made a shift.  Kobe may be the face because hes the best player in the league but that shift to players being more self centered, run isolation, do it all, all the attention on me is a Michael Jordan byproduct.  Not something created by Kobe.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 11:41:27 AM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 11:54:54 AM »
An argument to that is that Shaq helped Kobe to 4 of those trips, he is still brought up almost as much as Kobe is between the 'how my a^$ taste freestyle' and Kobe snitching on Shaq to the cops during the rape allegations.  Even now the finals still have the stench of Shaq on them with Orlando not making it to the finals since he left and the Lakers not winning a title since he left.  Not to mention Shaq is still one of the players teams in this league seek to try to win a title.  Miami did it.  The Suns made an attempt.  Looks like the Cavs will follow suit.

One thing you also forgot to mention about Kobe is the gold medal, being the leader in restoring our dominance in world basketball, and influencing the younger guys under him to have a better, more dedicated work ethic.   I  think you are being a bit harsh  in only bringing up times he has been divisive and self centered.  The guy also showed that people can be humbled and learn from their mistakes.  I think he has and that's a big reason why the Lakers are a better team and have a title again.  However, you are right in the sense that this league has made a shift.  Kobe may be the face because hes the best player in the league but that shift to players being more self centered, run isolation, do it all, all the attention on me is a Michael Jordan byproduct.  Not something created by Kobe.

I think Joe had his tounge firmly planted in his cheek.  Kobe is not in the running because he was the 2nd best player durring the threepeat, at least two of them.

If Kobe continues to win I agree with you.  Right now I think a case can be made for Duncan, Shaq, and now Kobe (based on your post).  If by some crazy accident/stroke of luck the Cavs ended up with Shaq and got to the promise land Kobe could be bumped out just like that.  3 teams, 3 titles, helped the development of the 3 biggest stars in the league.....

No chance that anybody will do anything at this point to add to their "player of the decade" argument.  I bet you 100 bucks that you cannot come up with ANY scenario that would improve a players chances of becomming the "player of the decade", heck, I'd bet 1K on it!  Not in your wildest dreams could you come up with something to make TD, Shaq, or Kobe a better candidate for player of the decade!!! BANK IT!
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 01:08:10 PM »
Found this article:

Greatest Player Of The Decade
Sunday, June 14, 2009 at 01:12AM
Greatest Player Of The Decade
As we watch Kobe Bryant close out the Orlando Magic in the NBA Finals, hoisting his 4th NBA Championship Trophy of this decade high above his shoulders. it brings the question to this bloggers mind - Who is the greatest player of the 2000's?

First lets set the criteria.

We are only reviewing accomplishments made by players from the 99'-00' Season to the current 08'-09' season. This covers the last 10 full seasons of NBA basketball.

Here are our candidates in no specific order:

Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Lebron James
Shaquille O'Neal

There really are no other players that you could make any feasible argument for outside of these four all-stars.

Now let the fun begin. As of today three of our four candidates all have 4 NBA Championships to their credit for their careers, but remember this article is not pondering which of these players has had the best career, we are reviewing only accomplishments that have been achieved in THIS DECADE. Meaning that Duncan's championship in the 90's does not come into play. Leaving us with Kobe, Shaq both at 4 rings, and Duncan at 3 titles for the decade.

While Lebron James has had an outstanding statistical career to this point, one would have to find it hard to believe that a player could be considered the "Best Player Of The Decade" without having won a single NBA title, and with only having taken his team to the championship round once this decade. Also, even from a statistical standpoint "Bryant" has dominated "James" statistically until this season. So while we do truly expect the next decade will be one the Lebron claims as his, for the time being there is really no logical argument to make for James being in this discussion.

Then there wer three. Duncan, Bryant, O'Neal.

This is where it gets a bit more interesting to casual sports fan. While it is obvious that Kobe, and Shaq helped eachother early in the decade to achieve success each player has found success since the departure on their own. Shaq winning his 4th title in 06', and Bryant winning his 4th title this year in 09'. Duncan has been the steady force with consistently high caliber teams for the majority of the decade, however his supporting cast is no joke either playing along two all-stars, and 1 finals MVP (Tony Parker) for the entire decade, not to mention Hall Of Famer David Robinson. The only negative factor for Duncan is while he has always been the unquestioned leader of his team on three championship runs, he has never been what most would consider a "Dominant Player". Noting the fact that in many recent seasons Duncan has been the second or third offense option for the Spurs, and in his entire career Duncan has only once notched a 50+ point scoring game (Hard to believe isn't it?).

Here are how some of the numbers open up:

Statistics 99'-00' thru 08'-09' (Ranking is out of these three players only)

Shaq O' Neal
Total Points Scored: 15,276 (Rank 3rd)
Games Played: 652 (Rank 3rd)
PPG Average: 23.4 (Rank 2nd)
Regular Season MVP: 1 (Rank T-2nd)
Finals MVP: 3 (Rank 1st)
All-Star Selections: 9 (Rank 3rd)
All-Star Game MVP Awards: 3 (Rank T-1st)
Scoring Titles: 2 (Rank T-1st)
Career High: 61 (Rank 2nd)
Championship Appearances: 5 (Rank 2nd)
NBA Championships: 4 (Rank T-1st)
Nicknames: 459

Tim Duncan
Total Points Scored: 16,431 (Rank 2nd)
Games Played: 768 (Rank 1st)
PPG Average: 21.4 (Rank 3rd)
Regular Season MVP: 2 (Rank 1st)
Finals MVP: 2 (Rank 2nd)
All-Star Selections: 10 (Rank T-1st)
All-Star Game MVP Award: 1 (Rank 3rd)
Scoring Titles: 0 (Rank 3rd)
Career High: 53 (Rank 3rd)
Championship Appearances: 3 (Rank 3rd)
NBA Championships: 3 (Rank 3rd)

Kobe Bryant
Total Points Scored: 21,055 (Rank 1st)
Games Played: 729 (Rank 2nd)
PPG Average: 28.9 (Rank 1st)
Regular Season MVP: 1 (Rank T-2nd)
Finals MVP: 1 (Rank 3rd)
All-Star Selections: 10 (Rank T-1st)
All-Star Game MVP Award: 3 (Rank T-1st)
Scoring Titles: 2 (Rank T-1st)
Career High: 81 (Rank 1st)
Championship Appearances: 6 (Rank 1st)
NBA Championships: 4 (Rank T-1st)

I must admit as I am writing this, and looking at these numbers based in reality that I am somewhat surprising myself. When I sat down to write this article I truly thought it would come down to Kobe vs. Duncan for the (GPOD) title, and I do know that we would all like to reward consistency, and unflashy hard work basketball fundamentals in a league that showcases so little of it these days. It is kind of like telling your friends at a party that you like "Coldplay" to make yourself sound more "Deep" than you actually are. However, looking at the facts, while Duncan has been consistently GREAT over the course of this decade, to be the "Greatest" of all time, or the greatest of an era/decade, I believe you have to possess the ability to not only be consistent but to be Dominant.

While Duncan has been able to somewhat take over games with his defense and rebounding, and timely scoring on a consistent level, he has never been a guy that you look to when all else fails and you KNOW he is going to put you on his back and get you 50. Shaq, and Kobe have both demonstrated this ability for a very long time. Let's face it when we talk about this decade Shaq and/or Kobe have appeared in the NBA Finals 7 times! That means that 70% of the time this decade when you turn on your T.V. to watch the NBA Championship you have Shaq, or Kobe's face looking back at you. Also, Shaq & Kobe have both done something that Duncan has never done. They have each won Championships with completely different supporting cast members. It is hard enough to win one championship, let alone win 4 with two different ensembles of teammates. So having said that to my surprise it looks like we are down to our two favorite partners in crime for the "Best Player Of The Decade" title - Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal.

So who has had the better decade of basketball Shaq, or Kobe?

This is actually easier than you would think to analyze partially due to the fact that in this decade Kobe & Shaq played 5 seasons together and the last 5 seasons on different teams. So let us examine the facts. It is a fact that Shaquille O'Neal was the best player on the three championship teams at the start of this decade, but Kobe was certainly no role player. People forget that while playing with Shaq this decade Kobe put up averages of 25.2 PPG at age 23, 28.5 PPG at age 22!, and 30.0 PPG at age 24, all while playing with shaq at his side. People also may not realize that Kobe Bryant was All-NBA 1st Team every year that the Lakers won the Championship (Do the math only 5 players every year are selected this honor). All of this meaning that while Shaq certainly gets the nod for the 1st 5 years of this decade, Kobe was not far behind. During the five years that Kobe & Shaq played together this decade Kobe Bryant averaged 26.2 PPG, and was an All-Star all 5 seasons. Since Shaq has left the Lakers Kobe has averaged 29.9 PPG and again has been an All-Star selection each of the 5 seasons. During the same periods Shaq's averages have been 27.0 PPG with Kobe, and Shaq has averaged 18.4 PPG without Kobe.

It is safe to say that Kobe has clearly had the better run of it over the last 5 NBA seasons both statistically dominating with scoring numbers the likes of which we have never seen from a two guard in NBA history, and also now with team success having taken a team without Shaq to two consecutive NBA Finals, and winning his 4th NBA Championship this season. Simply put if you are going to discount Kobe for being the second best player on three championship teams with Shaquille, then you would also have to discount Shaq for his diminishing skills over the past three seasons. While it may be due to the obvious fact that Shaq is getting older facts are facts and we are not examining the players career and giving discounts for old age. We are dealing with the realities of what has happened on the court in this decade.

Having said that, looking at all the facts it is clear by any formula that you choose to measure it that Kobe Bryant defeats all challengers. In this decade Kobe has the most points scored (21,055), Highest PPG average (28.9), most finals appearances (6) compared to Shaq's (5), and to Duncan's (3), and is tied for most championships won with 4. The truth is that over the last ten seasons Kobe has displayed a consistent level of greatness the likes of which we have rarely seen in NBA history. In that span he has been an All-Star every season, won the ASG MVP Award 30% of the time, played in the final series of the season (NBA Championship Round) 60% of the time, won the NBA Championship 40% of the time. While he has only won the Regular Season MVP Award once, he has been in the top 10 in MVP voting EVERY SEASON this decade, and top 5 in MVP voting 7 times, a statistical fact that shows his consistent dominance of this decade more than any other. Kobe has been a part of one dynasty at the beginning of the decade, and now has been the cornerstone of another, and he has done it all within the last ten years. He is the one and only player that every single season in the last ten years you could make a case that he was the best/most talented player in the league. Over the last ten years the experts have compared his game to many challengers: Shaq, Iverson, Carter, James, Anthony, Mcgrady. The challengers names have changed but the one constant is that every year Kobe is in the discussion. While Duncan has been consistently Excellent, even in his MVP years he was never widely agreed to be the Greatest player in the league, and while Shaq has had years of dominance and is an all-time great, for this decade his mediocrity over the last 5 seasons truly does not compare to Kobe's consistent excellence.

We can argue for hours about which of these players has had the better career, or who will go down as the superior "All-Time Great". But for this specific discussion love him or hate him there is no factual argument that you can make for anyone other than the "Black Mamba".

Kobe Bryant congratulations this decade of basketball belongs to you & only you.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 01:16:39 PM »
An argument to that is that Shaq helped Kobe to 4 of those trips, he is still brought up almost as much as Kobe is between the 'how my a^$ taste freestyle' and Kobe snitching on Shaq to the cops during the rape allegations.  Even now the finals still have the stench of Shaq on them with Orlando not making it to the finals since he left and the Lakers not winning a title since he left.  Not to mention Shaq is still one of the players teams in this league seek to try to win a title.  Miami did it.  The Suns made an attempt.  Looks like the Cavs will follow suit.

One thing you also forgot to mention about Kobe is the gold medal, being the leader in restoring our dominance in world basketball, and influencing the younger guys under him to have a better, more dedicated work ethic.   I  think you are being a bit harsh  in only bringing up times he has been divisive and self centered.  The guy also showed that people can be humbled and learn from their mistakes.  I think he has and that's a big reason why the Lakers are a better team and have a title again.  However, you are right in the sense that this league has made a shift.  Kobe may be the face because hes the best player in the league but that shift to players being more self centered, run isolation, do it all, all the attention on me is a Michael Jordan byproduct.  Not something created by Kobe.

I think Joe had his tounge firmly planted in his cheek.  Kobe is not in the running because he was the 2nd best player durring the threepeat, at least two of them.

If Kobe continues to win I agree with you.  Right now I think a case can be made for Duncan, Shaq, and now Kobe (based on your post).  If by some crazy accident/stroke of luck the Cavs ended up with Shaq and got to the promise land Kobe could be bumped out just like that.  3 teams, 3 titles, helped the development of the 3 biggest stars in the league.....

No chance that anybody will do anything at this point to add to their "player of the decade" argument.  I bet you 100 bucks that you cannot come up with ANY scenario that would improve a players chances of becomming the "player of the decade", heck, I'd bet 1K on it!  Not in your wildest dreams could you come up with something to make TD, Shaq, or Kobe a better candidate for player of the decade!!! BANK IT!

I just gave you an example what are you talking about?  Did you have Weedies and Tecate for breakfast again?

Let's just entertain the idea Shaq would win one with Lebron (Which is HIGHLY DOUBTFUL) next year....

- He would have more titles than both Duncan and Kobe

- He would have had a major impact on the career of Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, and Lebron James.  Arguably helping them elevate their games to the point where they could win a title.

- He would be the only player in NBA history to help 3 franchises win a ring while being a KEY component of the team.  This wouldn't be a Robert Horry type situation because of his role.  He also would have helped 4 of the 5 teams he played for get to the finals.

Now again, how is it that NOTHING can be done to help these guys out?  You realize that the 2009-2010 season would cap off the decade and there would be no way for Kobe or Duncan to catch up titles wise.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 01:33:17 PM »
Now again, how is it that NOTHING can be done to help these guys out?  You realize that the 2009-2010 season would cap off the decade and there would be no way for Kobe or Duncan to catch up titles wise.

Ahh...you almost fell for. 

You realize that the 2009-2010 season would cap off the decade and there would be no way for Kobe or Duncan to catch up titles wise.

You are incorrect, the decade is over.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2009, 01:34:17 PM »
Now again, how is it that NOTHING can be done to help these guys out?  You realize that the 2009-2010 season would cap off the decade and there would be no way for Kobe or Duncan to catch up titles wise.

Ahh...you almost fell for. 

You realize that the 2009-2010 season would cap off the decade and there would be no way for Kobe or Duncan to catch up titles wise.

You are incorrect, the decade is over.

No it's not.  The next season is the 2009-2010 season

The Lakers were the champs of the  2008-2009 season.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 02:32:56 PM »
Depends on the definitionn of a decade.  The article uses from 2000-2009 (title year) to define the decade.  Most people start the decade at xx01 and end it in xx10.  For example: is the 80's decade from 1980-1989 or 1981-1990?

So I would say that the article is wrong in counting the Lakers' 2000 championship as this was actually the last title of the PREVIOUS decade.  So then Kobe, Shaq & Duncan have all 3 won titles.

I also find it funny that the author doesn't discount Kobe & Shaq's titles won together.  Pair Duncan up with another "player of the decade" and see if he doesn't have more titles.  And I would bet that Timmy doesn't play "drama queen" to split up a championship team like the other two.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2009, 02:49:52 PM »
Depends on the definitionn of a decade.  The article uses from 2000-2009 (title year) to define the decade.  Most people start the decade at xx01 and end it in xx10.  For example: is the 80's decade from 1980-1989 or 1981-1990?

So I would say that the article is wrong in counting the Lakers' 2000 championship as this was actually the last title of the PREVIOUS decade.  So then Kobe, Shaq & Duncan have all 3 won titles.

I also find it funny that the author doesn't discount Kobe & Shaq's titles won together.  Pair Duncan up with another "player of the decade" and see if he doesn't have more titles.  And I would bet that Timmy doesn't play "drama queen" to split up a championship team like the other two.

So are you trying to say Manu is not, SuperManu?
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2009, 03:14:00 PM »
Depends on the definitionn of a decade.  The article uses from 2000-2009 (title year) to define the decade.  Most people start the decade at xx01 and end it in xx10.  For example: is the 80's decade from 1980-1989 or 1981-1990?

No way, why would the 80's include a 90's year?  Who was the ONLY champ in 2000?  There is only 1 champ per calander year even though a season carries two years.  1980 to 1989 does not include a 70's year nor does it contain a 90's year.

So the champ in 2000 (Lakers) to the champ in 2009 (Lakers) are the book ends to the decade.  I can't beleive this is a point of contention.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Who is the NBA player of the decade?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2009, 03:35:35 PM »
Depends on the definitionn of a decade.  The article uses from 2000-2009 (title year) to define the decade.  Most people start the decade at xx01 and end it in xx10.  For example: is the 80's decade from 1980-1989 or 1981-1990?

No way, why would the 80's include a 90's year?  Who was the ONLY champ in 2000?  There is only 1 champ per calander year even though a season carries two years.  1980 to 1989 does not include a 70's year nor does it contain a 90's year.

So the champ in 2000 (Lakers) to the champ in 2009 (Lakers) are the book ends to the decade.  I can't beleive this is a point of contention.

Well, genius, does the 10 year period start with year 1 or year 0?

Or put another way; when did the first decade end in the year 9 or year 10?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 03:37:42 PM by Lurker »
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