Big game tonight for Denver

[rickortreat]

It looks to me like George Karl is getting out-coached. The Lakers made some adjustments and the Nuggets couldn't execute their offense.  It remains to be seen if he can figure out how to combat the Laker defense.

I don't think they're out of the series yet, but they have to win tonight. Denver can't afford to go back to LA down 3-1.  It shows how little home-court counts for in the playoffs.

[Reality]

^^ oh yeah he, Billups and a few other Nuggs admitted as such in a rather lengthy interview today.
Fell in love with the three ball and dunk attempts after they had built the 79-72 lead Gm.  Instead of continuing to drive and get good shots and or fouls (in addition to making the tired Lakers work on D), they jacked up a bunch of trey attempts.  Idiotic.

JoeV had predicted their density would cost them.  Sadly that's what played out in Game 3.  Even if the Nuggs do win tonight, the Flamers got what they needed, a split.

[Reality]

We sure got to see the Lakers frontline dominate again in Gm 4.
fgs/boards/Oboards.  Not counting MarshMello with the flu:
5-11 15 KMart 3 Oboards
5-8  13 Nene 7
2-4  14 Birdman 4
3-5 Kleiza (2-3 treys) 2 Oboards
0-1 Petro
15-29fgs, 44 rebounds 16 Oboards

Gasol was solid again.  Bymum did fine.
As a whole however, the Laker frontline pulled down 8 Oboards total.  (16-8 in non Laker Math, westkoast.)

[rickortreat]

Denver really came to play last night, and LA could not match their intensity at all.  Phil must be worried. as he was lobbying extensively for sympathy for the trip on Kobe.  IT was a deliberate act, and a definite foul, but it had no impact on the game as Kobe was inexplicably running the wrong way on a shot that went in.

IMO, Bynum's foul was much worse, someone could really get hurt getting clubbed like that.  It should have been called a flagrant and the league should not rescind that ruling.

Even though it was a blowout, LA did accomplish what it needed- getting a split in Denver and regaining home-court. The difference last night was J.R. Smith, and the Denver bench.  I have been critical of LA's bench and support players in the past, and last night they barely showed up at all.  Role players, however, tend to get more into the game in front of their home fans.  Whether that is enough to shift the balance back to LA is another story.

I am now leaning more towards the Nuggets taking the series, as both teams have won on the other's home floor. Denver has more depth and as the series goes on that will take it's toll on Bryant and Gasol. Ariza and Odom all but disappeared last night, and the Lakers cannot afford to rely on Kobe and Gasol alone.

Game five will be the biggest game of the series, and whoever wins will likely win the series.  It will take a superb effort by the Nuggets to upend the Lakers, who will not go down without a fight.  It is important for the Nuggets to sum up the same effort as they played with last night, pounding the boards and making the extra pass to foil the Lakers' defense.

In any case, I no longer think a LeBron - Kobe finals matchup is likely.  Orlando is the better team in that series in spite of Mo Williams protestations to the contrary. Maybe against the other teams in the league, Cleveland would win a few more, but head to head, Orlando has too many advantages against Ilgauskas and Varajo. 

[Reality]

Denver is gonna need to blow out LA like Gm 4 in order to win Gm 5.  If the game is even remotely close, look for any and all calls to go LAs way.
Or look for Nene, Birdman, both, others to get wrung up for two phantom fouls withing the first 5 minutes.

Agree Bynums hack was much worse then Jones tiny trip.  Birdman was ownin, simply an excellent game by him.

Bynum had some good shots, and when the Flamers pulled to 77-70 the question was would Denver choke again.  Very good poise by Denver from that point on.  Making it a point to get the ball into Chaunceys hand, drive and/or work the shot clock.  No one on the Flamers can stop Chauncey from driving.  I liked the timing of Karls timeouts and how Denver responded.

[Joe Vancil]

Didn't see the game, but followed it on radio and on computer.

The technicals in the 4th quarter by Denver showed just how utterly stupid this team can get at times.  LA is starting a potential comeback, and you're giving them more free throws?  Good thing some of the shooters couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I can't tell you how good/bad J.R. Smith's shots were last night;  I just know that a significant number of bombs went in in the fourth.  I think that's a bad sign for the future for Denver, but then again, that's not seeing the actual play.  But with some of the Laker foul trouble, couldn't Denver have gotten to the line by attacking a bit more?

Blowout, yes - good game by Denver, no.  All the exploitable holes of Denver showed up last night - hot tempers, attempts at one-ups-manship, long shots when attacks on the basket are called for;  it would take severe brain-damage not to spot them.  I have to think that the Lakers did. 

Lakers in 6.

[westkoast]

Didn't see the game, but followed it on radio and on computer.

The technicals in the 4th quarter by Denver showed just how utterly stupid this team can get at times.  LA is starting a potential comeback, and you're giving them more free throws?  Good thing some of the shooters couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I can't tell you how good/bad J.R. Smith's shots were last night;  I just know that a significant number of bombs went in in the fourth.  I think that's a bad sign for the future for Denver, but then again, that's not seeing the actual play.  But with some of the Laker foul trouble, couldn't Denver have gotten to the line by attacking a bit more?

Blowout, yes - good game by Denver, no.  All the exploitable holes of Denver showed up last night - hot tempers, attempts at one-ups-manship, long shots when attacks on the basket are called for;  it would take severe brain-damage not to spot them.  I have to think that the Lakers did. 

Lakers in 6.

The Lakers flat out looked tired.  I don't know how else to describe what you would had missed if you listened on the radio.  Poor rotations and just a step too slow to rebounds/lose balls.  By the time the 4th came around no one, including Kobe, really had the gas to battle back.  Not with the crowd pumping up Denver.

This series is panning out to be like the last one.  Almost exactly to be honest.  I expect the Lakers to play hard at home.

Btw...anyone ever feel like Chauncey Billups is doing George Karl's job for him?  The guy is doing it all vocally and leadership wise.  Not only is he calling plays and directing them on defense, he is playing the 'console a player' role if they miss bricks.  George Karl, aside from calling outs, has a lot of his work done by Chauncey.  It's almost like getting a new head coach AND a great PG in one package. 

[Reality]

Joe,

Believe me i was looking for exactly what you mentioned and NO, Denver did not make the idiotic moves that cost them the 79-72 lead in Gm 3.
Gm 4 a key point was what happened after Bynum made back to back buckets to close the lead to 77-70.  This after the Nuggs lead 77-63 and Sasha Vagacic made a trey.  I seriously wondered if Denver would at that point do exactly what you mentioned.  Key play:  They got the ball in Billups hands, he did a superb give n go to Nene that completely fooled the Lakers and gave Billups the 2+1.  Then they stole the ball, Billups took a trey and nailed it.  At that point you could feel the Nuggs were not gonna choke.  Rest of the way while true JR Smith has some trey chucks, they were NOT ill advised chucks early in the shot clock.  

Birdman, Nene and the Nuggs frontline dominated the Flamers frontline, including this crucial 4th qtr stretch.  The chemistry work between the Denver guards and Denver Bigmen was superb, many give n gos, dump offs for slams and also timely kick outs for treys once LA took the inside bit.

Now in my usual fair n balanced reporting could LA have played better?  Oh yeah no doubt.  But this one can be classified as an intelligent Denver closeout.  
The KMart T?  Actually i kind of applaud him for it.  Gasol did an over the back and reached under KMarts armpit. KMart simply locked Gasols "caught in the cookie jar" arm and held it there until Salvatore HAD to see it.  Didn't help KMart get any foul call on Gasol but he made his point and it was at the point in time that the T honestly did not hurt Denver at that point.  No way they were choking this one at that point.

Waltons getting called the 1st time for a foul on Carmello was a joke.  Walton went straight up, Mello jumped right into him.  Perfect defense.  However the subsequent calls vs Walton (3 or 4 afterwords) that you have heard Phil Jackson whine about were legit calls.  Also Jacksons whining about the trip when a week ago Derek Swisher threw his head in Scola is just pure cowardly hypocrissy PhilLaker style to the 10th power.  It's not like Kobme was in full, half or even 1/4 stride.  It was more like Jones was an offensive lineman.  Right upon the "snap", Jones guessed Kobmes 1st step would go right.  Kobme went left, Jones knew he was going to get the sack so he stuck his foot out.  A foul?  Oh yeah of course.  A flagrant?  Pssshh seems pretty wussy to me but we are talking vs Kobme.  Plus perhaps you gotta call that so future tripping will be discouraged, small trip or not.

[msc]

Good win by Denver.  The Lakers just got outworked as evidenced by the huge rebounding discrepancy.  That is the most frustrating part from a fan's perspective.  I didn't expect the Lakers to win that game after stealing the first one in Denver, but to get out hustled and plain outworked is embarrassing.  I don't want to hear about tired.  That is a bs excuse.  Everyone is tired and dinged up at this point in the season.  If you make it to the Conference Finals and/or the NBA Finals and you're not tired, you don't deserve to be there.  The Lakers lost because they were outworked and they settled for jump shots.  That's it, it's not rocket science. 

Sticking your foot out to intentionally trip a player is not a flagrant foul, Reality?  You are unbelievable in your bias against Kobe.  You can't swing your leg out to intentionally trip a player.  Not only is it a dangerous play, not at the ball, but it's not even within the context of a basketball play and completely unsportsmanlike.  At least on a hard foul, like Bynums, his hands were both driving down on the ball.  In fact, he came pretty darn close to getting the ball but made contact with the arms.  That is a basketball play.  Swinging your leg to trip a player is unsportsmanlike and clearly not a basketball play.  Tack on to it the two handed shove in the back of Kobe, while he was mid-air in Game 3, and this Dontay Jones guy is showing he's a thug, punk.  Fits in perfectly with this team.  That too should have been a flagrant, no play on the ball, right?  Isn't that the crux of the definition? 

I wish I had Joe V's confidence in calling Lakers in 6.  I'm still sticking to my 7 game prediction.  I think Lakers bounce back tomorrow, lose in game 6 and come back to game 7 for the epic battle.  I'd love to agree with Reality's pathetic take that the refs will grant us a win, but the way they've been letting the Nuggets play as physical as they want while calling touch fouls on the Lakers, I don't think Lord Sternfish is in our corner anymore 

[Reality]

You are unbelievable in your bias against Kobe. 

Am I? 
Break this play down for us please.  No flagrant call on Kobme:

Sticking your foot out to intentionally trip a player is not a flagrant foul, Reality?    You can't swing your leg out to intentionally trip a player.  Not only is it a dangerous play, not at the ball, but it's not even within the context of a basketball play and completely unsportsmanlike.  At least on a hard foul, like Bynums, his hands were both driving down on the ball.  In fact, he came pretty darn close to getting the ball but made contact with the arms.  That is a basketball play.  Swinging your leg to trip a player is unsportsmanlike and clearly not a basketball play.

As i said, "Plus perhaps you gotta call that so future tripping will be discouraged, small trip or not."  So i am down with the Flagrant.  As trips go, as stated this was when Kobes has just moved after the "snap".  I would never ever be down with a moving trip and in fact would suspend a player indefinitely for that.

As to Bynum, so if you feign going for the ball, you can hack away?  No way not the rule at all stated or spirit.  And Byns did feign, totally.  He was going for a hack all the way.

Lastly msc, props for not going into HypoSkirt mode.  I mean that complimentary and sincerely.

[westkoast]

Good win by Denver.  The Lakers just got outworked as evidenced by the huge rebounding discrepancy.  That is the most frustrating part from a fan's perspective.  I didn't expect the Lakers to win that game after stealing the first one in Denver, but to get out hustled and plain outworked is embarrassing.  I don't want to hear about tired.  That is a bs excuse.  Everyone is tired and dinged up at this point in the season.  If you make it to the Conference Finals and/or the NBA Finals and you're not tired, you don't deserve to be there.  The Lakers lost because they were outworked and they settled for jump shots.  That's it, it's not rocket science. 

Sticking your foot out to intentionally trip a player is not a flagrant foul, Reality?  You are unbelievable in your bias against Kobe.  You can't swing your leg out to intentionally trip a player.  Not only is it a dangerous play, not at the ball, but it's not even within the context of a basketball play and completely unsportsmanlike.  At least on a hard foul, like Bynums, his hands were both driving down on the ball.  In fact, he came pretty darn close to getting the ball but made contact with the arms.  That is a basketball play.  Swinging your leg to trip a player is unsportsmanlike and clearly not a basketball play.  Tack on to it the two handed shove in the back of Kobe, while he was mid-air in Game 3, and this Dontay Jones guy is showing he's a thug, punk.  Fits in perfectly with this team.  That too should have been a flagrant, no play on the ball, right?  Isn't that the crux of the definition? 

I wish I had Joe V's confidence in calling Lakers in 6.  I'm still sticking to my 7 game prediction.  I think Lakers bounce back tomorrow, lose in game 6 and come back to game 7 for the epic battle.  I'd love to agree with Reality's pathetic take that the refs will grant us a win, but the way they've been letting the Nuggets play as physical as they want while calling touch fouls on the Lakers, I don't think Lord Sternfish is in our corner anymore 

A lot of teams are banged up but the Lakers also put themselves in a more tough situation.  Due to letting the Rockets hang around they end up playing 11 games every other game.  While teams like the Cavs, Nuggets, and Magic were able to get 3= extra days of rest in between.  While I don't think it's the only reason it one you might not have seen when listening to the game on the radio.  That is why I brought it up.

[WayOutWest]

Denver really came to play last night, and LA could not match their intensity at all.  Phil must be worried. as he was lobbying extensively for sympathy for the trip on Kobe.  IT was a deliberate act, and a definite foul, but it had no impact on the game as Kobe was inexplicably running the wrong way on a shot that went in.

Kobe was "inexplicably" going for a backdoor lob but was tripped by Jones.  From what I've seen of Jones he's not a dirty player but after the two handed shove in the back and this BS trip he's become another punk beeyatch like Melo and KMart.  Even amoung friends and family we might come to blows if we get shoved in the back like that, if a non-friend did that we are going to throw down.  That is one of the most dangerous things to do to a guy on the court and Jones deserved a suspension for that disgusting play.

IMO, Bynum's foul was much worse, someone could really get hurt getting clubbed like that.  It should have been called a flagrant and the league should not rescind that ruling.

That is an idiotic take, typical of you rick when it comes to the Lakers.  Bynum swung hard at the ball, Jones stuck his leg out and tripped a guy breaking to the basket. 

[WayOutWest]

Good win by Denver.  The Lakers just got outworked as evidenced by the huge rebounding discrepancy.  That is the most frustrating part from a fan's perspective.  I didn't expect the Lakers to win that game after stealing the first one in Denver, but to get out hustled and plain outworked is embarrassing.  I don't want to hear about tired.  That is a bs excuse.  Everyone is tired and dinged up at this point in the season.  If you make it to the Conference Finals and/or the NBA Finals and you're not tired, you don't deserve to be there.  The Lakers lost because they were outworked and they settled for jump shots.  That's it, it's not rocket science. 

Agreed msc, these guys are pros, there is no "tired" excuse.  The Lakers just look mentally weak, everyone except Kobe and Fisher look like they are waiting for something...I don't know what they are waiting for, even Ariza looks like he is daydreaming sometimes out there.

When the Lakers starters do need a rest the bench is not doing anything to help the team.  The bench is playing stupid basketball IMO, they are turning the ball over, not running the offense, and letting Denver out work them and the Denver role players are playing within themselves.  IMO the starters are holding their own, despite the week games that Fisher/Ariza/Bynum and to a certain extent Gasol are bringing.  The Nuggets bench is clearly out playing the Lakers.  Birdman has been the roles player of the playoffs in both conferences.  Still, the biggest difference has been Billups, he is holding his team together and making them better than the more talented Lakers and at the same time he is holding the Lakers at bay with his offense, Kobe is only doing the latter.

[msc]

Am I? 
Break this play down for us please.  No flagrant call on Kobme:

Kobe grabbed the ball and is getting up.  The only reason his knee is bumping Battier is because they're tangled up, Kobe grabbed the ball and is pushing himself up with Battier underneath him.  It's a scrum on the floor and clearly within the confines of a basketball related play.  Neither had possession or the ball initially and Kobe gets it first.  You can argue Kobe gave him a little extra something as he got up, but I don't possibly see how this is a flagrant foul. 

It's similar to the play last night between Dwight Howard and Varejo.  The alley oop is coming toward Howard and he and Varejo get tangeled up.  Both guys were doing the tangling ... they fall down together and both want the call.  Good no call, IMO.  Neither had the ball and the were both scrapping with each other. 

The league has gotten out of control with these flagrant foul calls.  I can't ever remember this many flagrants being levied and the game was much more physical in the 80's.  And the funny thing is there weren't any problems back then save a couple of fights.

In defense of the refs and the league a lot of these are tough calls to make on the fly.  The game moves very fast and they don't have the benefit of instant replay or animated gif's to breakdown.  So it's rarely ever going to be clear cut for the officials. 

The only thing that is clear cut here is that your bias and lack of objectivity is unparalleled on this board. 

What about the two handed push to the back of Kobe while mid air in Game 3?  What is your "take" on that, Reality?

[rickortreat]

Denver really came to play last night, and LA could not match their intensity at all.  Phil must be worried. as he was lobbying extensively for sympathy for the trip on Kobe.  IT was a deliberate act, and a definite foul, but it had no impact on the game as Kobe was inexplicably running the wrong way on a shot that went in.

Kobe was "inexplicably" going for a backdoor lob but was tripped by Jones.  From what I've seen of Jones he's not a dirty player but after the two handed shove in the back and this BS trip he's become another punk beeyatch like Melo and KMart.  Even amoung friends and family we might come to blows if we get shoved in the back like that, if a non-friend did that we are going to throw down.  That is one of the most dangerous things to do to a guy on the court and Jones deserved a suspension for that disgusting play.

IMO, Bynum's foul was much worse, someone could really get hurt getting clubbed like that.  It should have been called a flagrant and the league should not rescind that ruling.

That is an idiotic take, typical of you rick when it comes to the Lakers.  Bynum swung hard at the ball, Jones stuck his leg out and tripped a guy breaking to the basket. 

The Lakers had already taken a shot when Kobe ran to the basket, the play was over!  And Bynum hit Anderen in the head, or didn't you notice that his head band was covering his eyes after the play?

Laker eyes, Laker lies!