Author Topic: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?  (Read 4507 times)

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
I don't see the "leaning" of some people in the media towards the Magic.  To me it seems like the Cavs are on a mission and they are close to unstoppable.  I get why the Magic matchup well against the Cavs but the consistent D IMO is what's going to win it for the Cavs.  IMO the Cavs are going to have a very hard time dealing with Lewis and Big Z is not nearly as physical as Perkins so that is going to be a major issue for the Cavs to address.  Still, IMO the Magic are too mentally soft to deal with the constant pressure the Cavs are going to put on them all series long.

It's tantilizing to pick the Magic but the Cavs defense wins me over every time.  Cavs in 6 or possibly 5 if they get a split in games 3 or 4.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 02:35:38 PM »
I think this is going to be the first series where the Cavs really are tested.  So far they've played teams that have been well below them talent wise.  Orlando has a lot of talent and they have someone in the middle that cannot be stopped.  Will that off set Lebron?  I guess we will see.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 02:39:52 PM »
Orlando wins the series only if they grew some cajones during game 7 vs Boston.  Their lack of closing ability...mostly due to being a jumpshooting team...will cost them against the Cavs.  Cleveland has the best closer in the game right now and I don't see how the Magic stop him in a close game.  And Dwight isn't that dominate offensively...his big scoring games usually coincide with his big offensive rebounding games.  In other words if he pulls down the offensive board no one stops him from going back up.

Cavs in 5 or 6.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 03:10:18 PM »
Orlando wins the series only if they grew some cajones during game 7 vs Boston.  Their lack of closing ability...mostly due to being a jumpshooting team...will cost them against the Cavs.  Cleveland has the best closer in the game right now and I don't see how the Magic stop him in a close game.  And Dwight isn't that dominate offensively...his big scoring games usually coincide with his big offensive rebounding games.  In other words if he pulls down the offensive board no one stops him from going back up.

Cavs in 5 or 6.

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

I agree with what your saying as far as them having no closing ability.  I don't think its cajones they need to grow.  I think it's a brain.  Some of the plays they run for jump shots at the end of the game can only be described as brainless.  Having Turk just randomly huck up a 3 10 seconds into the shot clock can only be described that way.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 03:11:59 PM by westkoast »
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 03:12:05 PM »

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

Closing a game out by the end of the 3rd quarter is very impressive isn't it?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 03:17:26 PM »

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

Closing a game out by the end of the 3rd quarter is very impressive isn't it?

 ::)

You know very well that...

1) That's not closing a game, you know the term/phrase means when the game is close and its crunch time.

2)  The team playing well enough for them to go up big before the 4th so he can sit has now turned into him doing that all by himself?


http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 04:28:15 PM »

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

Closing a game out by the end of the 3rd quarter is very impressive isn't it?

 ::)

You know very well that...

1) That's not closing a game, you know the term/phrase means when the game is close and its crunch time.

2)  The team playing well enough for them to go up big before the 4th so he can sit has now turned into him doing that all by himself?




Untwist your Kobe undies, koast.  It is affecting your thought process.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 04:31:16 PM »

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

Closing a game out by the end of the 3rd quarter is very impressive isn't it?

 ::)

You know very well that...

1) That's not closing a game, you know the term/phrase means when the game is close and its crunch time.

2)  The team playing well enough for them to go up big before the 4th so he can sit has now turned into him doing that all by himself?




Untwist your Kobe undies, koast.  It is affecting your thought process.

I think LeBron is the most unstoppable offensive player in the game today.  Kobe can out quick and out jumpshoot any defender in the league, as can LeBron, but LeBron's size, strength and desire to get to the rim make him a bit better.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 04:38:07 PM »

How is Lebron the best closer in the game when he hasn't even been on the floor to close a number of these games? heh

Closing a game out by the end of the 3rd quarter is very impressive isn't it?

 ::)

You know very well that...

1) That's not closing a game, you know the term/phrase means when the game is close and its crunch time.

2)  The team playing well enough for them to go up big before the 4th so he can sit has now turned into him doing that all by himself?




Untwist your Kobe undies, koast.  It is affecting your thought process.

I think LeBron is the most unstoppable offensive player in the game today.  Kobe can out quick and out jumpshoot any defender in the league, as can LeBron, but LeBron's size, strength and desire to get to the rim make him a bit better.

We all agree with that.  That doesn't make him the best finisher in the game though. 

Lurker,  it has less to do with Kobe than it does with Lebron not taking over the game in crunch time to warrant what you said.  Ray Allen has been a better closer in the playoffs this far.  During the regular season Lebron was not the best finisher.  If he was I think maybe you might have brought it up prior to this time.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 04:42:09 PM by westkoast »
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline rickortreat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2056
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 08:51:24 PM »
IMO the Magic are going to win this series. Cleveland can't stop Hedo and Lewis. They can't stop Howard. They won't even be able to keep their guards out of the paint. The Celtics were supposed to have a good defense, and they couldn't stop Orlando, only the Magic can stop themselves.

The way the playoffs have gone, the Cavaliers haven't played anyone yet, and haven't been tested. The Magic are going to give them a real test. This is a team that led the Cavs by 40 in a game in Cleveland only a short time ago in the regular season.

LeBron can get his, and it won't be enough, even with Mo Williams, it still won't be enough. Illgauskas? Sczerbiak? 

Orlando in 6 or less.

Offline Derek Bodner

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
    • AOL Instant Messenger - dbodner22
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - dabodz
    • View Profile
    • http://www.phillyarena.com
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 09:13:21 PM »
Quote
The Celtics were supposed to have a good defense, and they couldn't stop Orlando, only the Magic can stop themselves.

the Celtics without Garnett are average at best defensively IMO.

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2009, 08:51:20 AM »
Quote
The Celtics were supposed to have a good defense, and they couldn't stop Orlando, only the Magic can stop themselves.

the Celtics without Garnett are average at best defensively IMO.

As many "props" as Big Baby is getting, they are strictly on the offensive end.  The Celtic defense was clearly below par.  The best Big Baby can do on defense is take a charge, he's not threat to block a shot nor can he move quickly enough to cause problems for a post player that has a height advantage.  Perkins was looking like an all-defensive player because he had to take up a lot of the slack that was caused by KG's absense.

IMO the Magic are in for a surprise when they see how well the Cavs shooters close out on 3-pt shooters.  The Cavs best shot at defending Howard is for Big-Z to give Howard lots of room and not body him up like Perkins did because Howard is going to go around him quite easily.  Biz-Z has to force Howard to shot over him in order to keep it respectable.  If Howard tries to go through Biz-Z the Cavs will be in good shape cause Z has size, but if Howard uses his quickness then he's going to average 20/15 in the series.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline rickortreat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2056
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2009, 04:30:20 PM »
Over at ESPN no one is giving Orlando a chance.  Whereas they are giving the Lakers an overwhelming majority pick.


That's fine. Everyone has their reasons. But none of the ones picking Clevland are giving any reasons that make any sense. It's like they are entirely ignoring the team's head to head meetings or their outcomes.  Some acknowledge the phrase- they match up well with Cleveland and then entirely discount it.

To me, Orlando has the edge. At Center they are way ahead with Howard over Z. All I can see for Varajo and Szerbiak is a lot of fouls called on them, as neither one is capable of guarding Lewis or Hedo.  If Varajo concentrates on the boards and stays in the game, he'll be useful, but it won't stop Orlando's forwards from having career games. LeBron is the one player the Cavs have who could guard Lewis or Turk, but they need him to score and stay out of foul trouble.  Orlando's forwards are taller than James and their length is not something he's used to seeing.

The one thing Orlando doesn't do well is rebound.  When they're on offense, they are very concerned about getting back early to prevent run-outs and layups. But because they are often outside shooters, their rebounds bounce long so they get a fair number of 2nd shots.  This is a big area for Cleveland if they can get lots of second shots, they can stay with Orlando.

Both teams shoot well from outside, and both teams are vulnerable to not defending the perimeter.  But Orlando is three crazy and prepared to hork up shot after shot.  It' doesn't sound like much, but when they have three different players out their bombing away and the balls are all swishing through the hoop the game can get out of hand very quickly.

Here's the thing: Cleveland was unable to stop Orlando the last time they played. I don't think they have the players to do it even if they wanted to. And, I also doubt that LeBron can score enough to keep them in the game for more than half the series.

We'll find out soon if ESPN's writers are better prognosticators.

Offline WayOutWest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7411
    • View Profile
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 07:34:52 PM »
Both teams shoot well from outside, and both teams are vulnerable to not defending the perimeter.

Surprisingly, this is the only part of your post I disagree with, IMO the Cavs are much better at closing out on the shooters, especially at the 3 point line.  What the Cavs have not faced is a threat in the paint that requires a double team.  Since their perimeter defenders don't have to help in the paint they have an easier time of defending the outside shooters.  Howard is most likely going to require a double team, what's going to be critical is who breaks off their man to help double.  The obvious answer is for Alston's man to help since Alston is not a good outside shooter.  But the Cavs PG may not be big enough to help so the Cavs may have to cross match up at the PG to allow a bigger player to help on Howard.  The Cavs can not afford to help off anyone else so it will have to be the PG.  That will probably be enough to bother Howard but we shall see.  It will be very interesting.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline rickortreat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2056
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Cavs vs Magic - What teams are being watched by everyone else?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 03:17:15 PM »
Both teams shoot well from outside, and both teams are vulnerable to not defending the perimeter.

Surprisingly, this is the only part of your post I disagree with, IMO the Cavs are much better at closing out on the shooters, especially at the 3 point line.  What the Cavs have not faced is a threat in the paint that requires a double team.  Since their perimeter defenders don't have to help in the paint they have an easier time of defending the outside shooters.  Howard is most likely going to require a double team, what's going to be critical is who breaks off their man to help double.  The obvious answer is for Alston's man to help since Alston is not a good outside shooter.  But the Cavs PG may not be big enough to help so the Cavs may have to cross match up at the PG to allow a bigger player to help on Howard.  The Cavs can not afford to help off anyone else so it will have to be the PG.  That will probably be enough to bother Howard but we shall see.  It will be very interesting.

Keep in mind they have to close out Hedo and Lewis, two tall guys who can put it on the floor and go around you.  Phila. was successful having a guard come and take the ball out of Howard's hands as he started to post up. Whenever they cheated off another player to double him, the Magic made them pay by hitting an open shot, including Alston.  Courtey Lee will be back in the starting line-up too. The Magic have too many weapons, players who can hit with consistency from the outside.  You add in slashers and a big man in the post and you have a real team. This will sound funny, but I really like Marcin Gortat, the Magic's back-up center. Howard is vulnerable to getting into foul trouble, but the Magic manage to play pretty well without him too.

I don't think Cleveland can stop the Magic from scoring, and I don't think they can outscore them. LeBron might get them a game or two, but I'd be very surprised if the Cavs get more than that. 

At least Barkley agrees with me.