Suspensions on the horizon?

[msc]

If it wasn't for Artest turning into Lebron/Kobe/Wade all the sudden with his jump shot the game would have been a big time blow out.  I don't expect Artest to continue to shoot that well the entire series.  Some of the shots from 3 he was hitting were pretty sweet and DEAD ON.  I don't know if Ive seen him shoot the ball this well over 2 games as he has in this series.  Maybe JoMal has.  Not that he's a bad offensive weapon it's just he is pretty much lava rocks right now.

No pun indended, but I agree, Ron-Ron is out of his mind on offense.  In the second half Artest was becomming a liability on offense, ball hogging and forcing his way on offense and causing turn overs.

I couldn't agree more.  I love Ron Ron on the opposition because he has the tendency to hold the ball on offense and jack up bad shots.  He's been friggin' unconscious so far, but I'm okay with that because the law of averages will catch up with him over the series.  Keep jacking up those 3's Ron Ron!

FYI, Artest is throwing more elbows than all the Lakers combined.  If the refs called it like they should the Rockets would not have won a single game.  The fact that the refs are "letting them play" benifits the Rockets 10X more than the soft Lakers.  Gasol has an extreemly difficult time scoring on the Rockets backup center because they are letting him get away with a lot of pushing, dislodging and shoving.

IMO Scola and Artest are playing perfect physical basketball, enough to stay within the rules and enough to screw up the Lakers heads.  That's why I think PJ needs to get control of the Lakers, the Rockets will goad (sic?) the Lakers into a physical and retalitory (sic?) game and the Lakers will lose.

+1

Quoted for truth. 

[Reality]

That's pretty much what I said, Artest is staying within the rules, Kobe and Fisher did not.

WayOutWest

FYI, Artest is throwing more elbows than all the Lakers combined.  If the refs called it like they should the Rockets would not have won a single game.

awww.  And you were doing so well being objective.  I'm still thrilled with the reality growth.

Anyone have a replay of Kobe's elbow to Artest?  I only saw the play once.  To me it just looked they were really fighting for position and Artest tried to stand over Kobe which let to an elbow in the throat.  Hard to give Kobe the benefit of the doubt when he has elbow'd someone before out of frustration.

Also some excellent objective growth.  There was nothing to "doubt", Kobme did an elbow to the neck since he was not winning the position battle and knew good and well he would not be held accountable.  Yes I'll get a replay.

[msc]

Here you go, buddy. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqYpVPcIclU

[westkoast]

Here you go, buddy. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqYpVPcIclU

Good lookin out my friend.  That was a way better angle than I saw on TV last night too.  Clearly intentional.  He wanted to throw Artest off his back but nailed him with an elbow in the neck instead.  Had he been doing what Artest is doing, which is throwing 'bows but keeping em below the shoulders, it would have been a typical play under the rim in basketball.

WOW is right.  I think Scola and Artest are playing REAL physical but that is how playoff basketball should be.  Fisher's play I still think is playoff basketball caliber screen fighting.  Scola got floppy and acted.  Shouldn't be a game suspension but it will be.  Kobe, sorry buddy.  Deserve to get a flagrant for that.

[msc]

I actually agree with both sides.  First, Artest was all over his back, so it was an over the back foul.  Second, Kobe did throw an elbow out of frustration.  Should have been a double foul, IMO. 

[rickortreat]

I thought Fisher's foul was the worst and he should be suspended for that cheap shot.  I don't think the head contact was intentional, but he saw what was happening and deliberately took a running start towards hitting Scola. That could really hurt someone, dislocate a shoulder, give them a stinger, etc.  Worse than Dwights' elbow at Dalembert.  

Kobe's elbow into Artert's neck: It didn't look like Ron was hurt, but the gutless call on him for the foul, induced outraged feeling's of injustice and bias for allowing the Lakers physical play.  (The Lakers won the game by playing physical. That was the only think that disrupted Houstons offense.)  Ron-Ron could not keep his cool; going over to Kobe was stupid, so I'm fine with him being ejected, but it was the refs fault for not calling Kobe for the foul.

Kobe's an arrogant little beyatch.  If he would just play the game and knock it off with the smugness, I'd like him a lot more as a player.  It's his attitude, more than anything that makes me prefer LeBron and Wade as players.  As it is, I kind of would like to see him and Ron Ron get it on in a back alley somewhere, as it would serve to wipe that arrogance right out of Mr. Laker.  He deserves a suspension as well, I think the NBA has to, as the replay clearly showed it.

Great objectivity by the Laker posters. Very impressed for the most part.  I think the refs let the Lakers get away with being too physical.  A lot of the turnovers that led to easy buckets were the result of fouls they didn't call. Houston was unable to deal with the pressure, and it's hard to blame the  Lakers for taking advantage of the lack of calls.  The point being, the play wouldn't have gotten so out of hand if the refs blew their whistles a bit more. When the players start doing things that could hurt each other, it's the refs fault for "letting them play" a bit too much.

[WayOutWest]

I think the refs let the Lakers get away with being too physical.

Absolutely wrong.  The refs are letting BOTH teams get away with being too physical.  The big difference is the Rockets can handle it and the Lakers can not.  The refs let the Rockets get away with too much and the Lakers over react.  Both the Fisher and Kobe "attacks"are a DIRECT result of the Rockets getting away with too much physical play, instead of matching that play the Lakers over compensate and pay the price at the freethrow line.

If the refs were paying attention Artest would have been called for a foul before Kobe's elbow, instead Artest gets away with an obvious foul, Kobe gets away with a flagrant retaliation foul and the Ron gets called for the retaliation to the retaliation.  Horrible officiating but if the East can get away with that type of play without even a flagrent then IMO suspensions are BS.

[rickortreat]

I didn't think Houston was being all that physical with LA, it seemed the Lakers were getting any shot they wanted anyway.  Until LA started playing physically the game was close and it looked like the Rockets had a chance. The Rockets couldn't run decent possessions when LA was hounding the ball.

Where was a Houston player cited for a hard foul? Houston isn't a physical team, aside from Artest. Their size might bother LA, but non one thinks Yao or Scola is overly physical. 

I didn't think LA was a physical team either but Ariza and Fisher like to mix it up along with a few of their bench players.

The game didn't change until LA started pressing.  That's when the game got out of hand. Houston wasn't doing anything other than playing the same as they had at the beginning of the game.

[Joe Vancil]

Just saw these.

Alston has got no excuse.  That was just brain-dead Alston, which is why he was deemed expendable in...well...pretty much everywhere that has a second option for playing point.  1 Game Suspension.

Fisher also has no excuse.  That was simply popping the pick to jar the pick player.  While "Streak Deadly" (a friend of mine and Skander's) may disagree, that's cheap.  1 Game Suspension.

Artest/Bryant:  This is a case of referee failure.  Kobe had Artest blocked out - that's good basketball.  Artest decided to push and run him over.  That's a foul, and it didn't get called.  Bryant retaliated by pushing back.  Still no call.  Artest keeps pushing...and is winning the battle by doing something that is obviously beyond reasonable.  Still no call.  Bryant bumps back even harder.  Still no call.  Artest *STILL* keeps pushing.  STILL NO CALL, and now, it's getting serious, because Bryant is getting moved *WAY* too far.  Bryant swings the arms - yes, high - and pops Artest.

Had the refs wanted to let a little bit go, clearly, once it got to be an inverse tug-of-war, the double-foul needed to be called.  But they didn't do that.  As a result, that was just a ridiculous exchange that I lay *COMPLETELY* at the feet of the referees.

If I'm Stu Jackson, after announcing my resignation for the good of basketball, I send a message to Bryant:  the league has upgraded that call to a Flagrant-1 on Kobe, and has fined him an equal amount to Ron Artest.  And now, back to basketball.

Kobe's elbow needs to be addressed, but shouldn't warrant a suspension unless such plays continue.  Artest does not deserve a suspension, but I do agree with a technical foul due to his behavior.  The only reason he got thrown out is past incidents - and I'm okay with that.  And finally, I fine the referee crew for allowing that kind of escalation.

I somewhat agree with WayOut that this is playoff basketball, and that the lane is not a safe place for the faint-of-heart.  But that was just a bit too over-the-top.  

And finally, if I'm Kobe Bryant in that situation...*I* throw that elbow.  (Given my height, and my block-out stance, it will be at a significantly lower but still at a vulnerable part of the body.)  But I think Kobe *HAS* to throw that elbow given what was transpiring.  He wasn't aiming it at any place in particular; not that that's an excuse.  It's still got to be punished, but the referees need to share in that blame.

[JoMal]

FYI, Artest is throwing more elbows than all the Lakers combined. 

FYI, Artest's elbows are to the ribs, not throat or head shots as Kobe is tossing. The League supposedly frowns on elbows above the shoulders - unless the player is considered a superstar. Also, knowing rep of the guy guarding you and how quick (obviously!!) the refs will be in tossing him if he complains too loudly would prompt any megastar into throwing head shots at every opportunity with impunity.

If the refs called it like they should the Rockets would not have won a single game.  The fact that the refs are "letting them play" benifits the Rockets 10X more than the soft Lakers. 

Looking through those purple-colored lens again, I see, WOW. Your unbiased view last all of, what, two posts? 

IMO Scola and Artest are playing perfect physical basketball, enough to stay within the rules and enough to screw up the Lakers heads.  That's why I think PJ needs to get control of the Lakers, the Rockets will goad (sic?) the Lakers into a physical and retalitory (sic?) game and the Lakers will lose.

Jackson has already stated in his post game comments how the phyicality somehow is all one-sided and the only team doing it has been the Rockets, so naturally his players are just retaliating. Aren't the Rockets coached by Rick Adelman yet, like the last guy who feels rough play is in order, even taking a guy out and sending him to the locker room because he could not trust him to behave himself any longer in the game?

 You would think that if rough play was his plan, he would have put him back in the game instead.

[JoMal]

I guess I'm a completely un-objective homer, because I don't think Fish deserves a suspension at all.

I would have to say that, yes, that statement officially classifies you as a Laker homer, as in big, 'DUH"

[JoMal]

Houston is an extremely physical team. They worked the Lakers over in Game 1, yet the foul discrepancy was extremely slanted in Houston's favor (btw, still waiting for Reality's outcry over that discrepancy in Game1). Game 2, the Lakers fought back and here we are crying about Kobe's elbows fighting for position under the basket and Fish's death blow to Scola. This is turning in to a great series and what playoff basketball should be all about. Bring on Game 3!

The discrepancy happened because the Lakers were not at all physical in the first game and that tends to be when one team starts getting ticky tack fouls called on them by the refs. No big surprise there.

[JoMal]

WOW is right.  I think Scola and Artest are playing REAL physical but that is how playoff basketball should be.  Fisher's play I still think is playoff basketball caliber screen fighting.  Scola got floppy and acted.  Shouldn't be a game suspension but it will be.  Kobe, sorry buddy.  Deserve to get a flagrant for that.

While the hard fought basketball is good and exciting and real playoff caliber stuff, it always opens up things so the players are going to cross the line. Good refs will head off trouble long before it gets to that point, but somehow these guys let the chippy stuff go on too long without real consequence.

And if you believe Fisher's play was a playoff caliber screen, get some mental help.

When you let a player set a so-called screen where he sees the guy coming, hunches down for maximum leverage, then lifts his body into the midsection of a player jogging up the court and hits him like a linebacker and that Scola acted and flopped to make it look worse then it is, you need to take that Laker idiocy and cram it up your arse. And I would say that about Rondo as well.

Hard basketball is fine, but if a player crosses into this kind of thing and what Rondo has been doing, the League is just asking for another Detriot fiasco at some point.

[JoMal]

Absolutely wrong.  The refs are letting BOTH teams get away with being too physical.  The big difference is the Rockets can handle it and the Lakers can not.  The refs let the Rockets get away with too much and the Lakers over react.  Both the Fisher and Kobe "attacks"are a DIRECT result of the Rockets getting away with too much physical play, instead of matching that play the Lakers over compensate and pay the price at the freethrow line.

No, I just don't see that. Kobe played this perfectly because as anyone should know by now, Artest can be provoked and Kobe was giving him fits while ignoring the rib shots from Ron, so clearly one, certain Rocket could NOT handle it at all, could he? But Kobe acted calm and aloof, hands up - walked away. It was Artest who lost it.

If the refs were paying attention Artest would have been called for a foul before Kobe's elbow, instead Artest gets away with an obvious foul, Kobe gets away with a flagrant retaliation foul and the Ron gets called for the retaliation to the retaliation.  Horrible officiating but if the East can get away with that type of play without even a flagrent then IMO suspensions are BS.

Wrong again. It looked like both Artest and Kobe were fouling each other like crazy up to the final elbow. But then it would not have mattered to me if the foul had been called on Artest before then because he certainly was fouling Bryant on that play.

[msc]

Houston is an extremely physical team. They worked the Lakers over in Game 1, yet the foul discrepancy was extremely slanted in Houston's favor (btw, still waiting for Reality's outcry over that discrepancy in Game1). Game 2, the Lakers fought back and here we are crying about Kobe's elbows fighting for position under the basket and Fish's death blow to Scola. This is turning in to a great series and what playoff basketball should be all about. Bring on Game 3!

The discrepancy happened because the Lakers were not at all physical in the first game and that tends to be when one team starts getting ticky tack fouls called on them by the refs. No big surprise there.

I completely agree. My point is the Lakers came out swinging, essentially saying we're not going to take this anymore, and I'm glad they did.  The Lakers have a rep for not being tough enough.  Houston manhandled them in game 1, the Lakers didn't allow them to in game 2, thankfully.  I agree with WOW that Houston has been smarter about their physical play and the Lakers will have to adjust and learn to do that if they're going to win this series. 

I've never cried about the officials, and never will, I leave that to jilted Kings fans and our resident conspiracy theorist