Suspensions on the horizon?

[WayOutWest]

Rafer - It was clearly a retaliation hit, if Dwight got suspensded for an elbow that was ruled a punch, then Rafer might be suspended despite it being a slap.  Does anybody remember what happened to West when he baby slapped Dirk on the face last year?

Fisher - Clearly it was pre-meditated with the intent to cause harm, that in of itself is enough to warrant a suspension.  The only argument the Lakers have is that Deron did the exact same thing, the act was actually worse because Deron went at Bynum going forward and Fisher did it back peddling but the major difference was the result.  Bynum barely noticed the hit while Scola got smacked really hard in the mouth/nose/chin and went down.

Artest - Clearly he was completely innocent, he was playing really rough but legal basketball.  Kobe got frustrated and over reacted with the elbow to Artest.  IMO it would not have really bothered Artest but when HE got called for the foul instead of Kobe it made him nuts, more nuts than usual.  He went over to Kobe to set him strait but did not really retaliate.  Artest did put his hands on Kobe but that should only have got him a T.  I'm not sure why Artest got ejected but if was because he got a second T for continuing to smack while the ref was trying to get him away from Kobe than that's ok BUT if it's because of the first confrontation with Kobe then I don't agree with the ejection.  IMO no way Artest should get suspended. 

After the Fisher and Artest incidents the refs got out of control and it was actually hurting the Lakers more than the Rockets, the Rockets just seem smarter and better coached overall.  I actually like this kind of passion in the playoffs, reminds me of the Lakers/Jazz and Lakers/Celtics of the 80's, not as crazy as Celtics/Pistons, Pistons/Bulls or Bulls/Knicks but still pretty good PG-13 action.  It is still NOTHING close to the Bulls/Celtics in the 1st round yet the Lakers/Rockets series is getting way more attention and penalties, for that reason and that reason alone I will be pretty pissed if anybody gets suspended while Rondo gets to play WWF.

[Reality]

Compliments for your objectivity. 

Of course Swisher should get suspended.  My prediction is if Swisher does, the marketers will make sure to take down (suspend) Artest.
Thus we'll see Swisher out, Artest out, = huge advantage Lakers and this 2002 Kings type thing will be in full swing.

Getting your neck in the way of Kobes elbow is a suspendable offense.

[jn]

Did you happen to catch the interview with House regarding the Alston play?   He said something to the effect that "we're above that sort of thing."  Apparently Eddie is the biggest pothead in the league because his short term memory is COMPLETELY GONE!  I've never liked him or Alston. To me that play exemplifies the total lack of brains and maturity that Alston has displayed throughout his career.

I've always liked Fisher but that was a completely inexcusable move.  Launching the top of your head at someone else's face is just disgusting. Heck, that could be a suspension in the NFL or NHL.

 

[WayOutWest]

Did you happen to catch the interview with House regarding the Alston play?   He said something to the effect that "we're above that sort of thing."  Apparently Eddie is the biggest pothead in the league because his short term memory is COMPLETELY GONE!  I've never liked him or Alston. To me that play exemplifies the total lack of brains and maturity that Alston has displayed throughout his career.

House is an idiot, I guess there is something to that pot thing cause he completely forgot the elbow he threw 1 second before the slap.

I've always liked Fisher but that was a completely inexcusable move.  Launching the top of your head at someone else's face is just disgusting. Heck, that could be a suspension in the NFL or NHL.

Is luanching your head, Fisher, worse than launching your elbow, Deron?  Deron did the same thing with his elbow and he was the one setting the pick not the guy getting picked like was the case with Fisher.  I would have no argument against the suspension if it had not been for the Deron incident.  Deron did not even get a T or flagrant and IMO what Fisher did was not a quantum leap beyond Deron and therefore does not warrant a suspension.  Was it worse than Deron, obviously yes, was it as bad or worse than what Dwight did vs Philly, I don't know.

[WayOutWest]

One other thing, I shudder to think how good the Spurs would be right NOW if they had held onto Scola.  The guy is a baller and I've been saying that since the Tournament of the America's.  I did not realize at the time how tough that guy can be and what a solid defender and rebounder he is as well.

[jn]

I honestly can't visualize the Williams play so I can't comment.

[westkoast]

First of all the fighting under the basket for a rebound is hardly something to cry about in playoff basketball.  Is anyone in the media or otherwise going to bring up the fact that Artest is abusing Ariza's ribs with elbows of his own?  I honestly am surprised Ariza has not broken a rib yet.  And guess what?  It's perfectly fine in my book.  That is tough playoff basketball.  Artest is playing physical like he should.

Second, the reason Artest got ejected is he made a 'cut your throat' motion towards Kobe.  Artest tried to pass it off as saying he got elbowed but the motion wasn't the same.  That's why he got tossed.  There should be no suspension for him as it would be hard to say what Artest really meant.

Fisher deserves a suspension.  Nothing you can argue there.  Whether Deron did it or not.  In this NBA that doesn't even need to be reviewed.  In the 80s that would be called fighting through a screen LOL

WOW..I am a bit confused.  You've been complaining that the Lakers are not tough enough.  Clearly they showed their toughness and hunger last night.  Now they are not coached well?  I am a bit thrown off.  Phil Jackson's adjustments worked perfect until Yao went to the bench.  The way he moved Odom into the starting line up and put Pau iso'd against Ming on the low post was all the difference.  Had Yao not picked up a bunch of cheap ones the Lakers would have continued to get fast break points due to Pau's ability to run the floor and pass.  The Rockets got back into the game not because of Adleman adjustment but because that smaller, faster line up that he was forced to play wasn't what the Lakers planned for.  Nor do they really have the same speed at the 1 and 4 (Farmar is quick but not as quick)  If it wasn't for Artest turning into Lebron/Kobe/Wade all the sudden with his jump shot the game would have been a big time blow out.  I don't expect Artest to continue to shoot that well the entire series.  Some of the shots from 3 he was hitting were pretty sweet and DEAD ON.  I don't know if Ive seen him shoot the ball this well over 2 games as he has in this series.  Maybe JoMal has.  Not that he's a bad offensive weapon it's just he is pretty much lava rocks right now.

[Reality]

Clearly the floor should be suspended on this play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTX81NwDB20&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Espurstalk%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D125604&feature=player_embedded

[westkoast]

If Alston gets suspended (which he will) then I don't see how anyone can deny the league bias towards Rondo.  He more or less did the same thing to Kirk Heinrich with NOTHING happening.

I'd say slap to the back of the head = shoving someone into scorers table   Right?

[Reality]

One other thing, I shudder to think how good the Spurs would be right NOW if they had held onto Scola.  The guy is a baller and I've been saying that since the Tournament of the America's.  I did not realize at the time how tough that guy can be and what a solid defender and rebounder he is as well.

Here's Cousin Lurker in March 2007:

Scola scores in ther paint...the Spurs already have a better inside scorer than Scola.  Maybe you have heard of him...Tim Duncan.

Spurs offered the max that a team could offer towards the buyout.  The holdup was Scola wanting a multi-year contract starting at the entire mid-level exemption.  Spurs were offering around $3-4 mil for a couple seasons.

Scola is not an athletic swingman.  Not sure why you would start 3 PF/C type players in a league that has definately altered the rules to promote athletic, slasher/scorer type players

You just read yesterday how Elson hasn't even completely learned the defensive schemes of the Spurs and you want to bring in someone new to learn in 3 weeks what others take 2 years to figure out.

Scola would make sense for 2 reasons: 1) he could defend perimeter players as well as Bowen and 2) he could shoot from the perimeter as well as Barry/Finley.  And the reality is that he does neither.  So no he is NOT a piece that would help the Spurs win this year. 

and...

The Spurs have 2 inside scorers...Duncan & Parker.  They don't need another inside scorer...in fact the Spurs don't really need another scorer.  They need a consistant ( <---key word) outside SHOOTER with above average defensive skills.

   

[JoMal]

Fun stuff.

Nice, physical basketball that got that way because, once again, the quality of the referees come into question. They could easily put this to rest if they wanted to by calling the elbow fouls as they occur, especially the ones that Kobe kept throwing at Artest leading up to the final one. Deron's elbow falls into the same category, as do Fisher's.  

Artest clearly was getting sick of the high elbows that Kobe was getting away with, but to be honest, I can't see the refs EVER doing anything serious about what Kobe does, as opposed to, say, a Ron Artest who complains about it, gestures across his neck to indicate what Kobe had been doing, then getting tossed by "Little Man Syndrome" Crawford because, well, Ron Artest just did a slashing motion across his neck and Joey is essentially a coward.

But that cuts both ways. The Rockets were also getting chippy, especially Scola. Too bad I will miss the rest of the series and the playoffs.  

[WayOutWest]

First of all the fighting under the basket for a rebound is hardly something to cry about in playoff basketball.  Is anyone in the media or otherwise going to bring up the fact that Artest is abusing Ariza's ribs with elbows of his own?  I honestly am surprised Ariza has not broken a rib yet.  And guess what?  It's perfectly fine in my book.  That is tough playoff basketball.  Artest is playing physical like he should.

That's pretty much what I said, Artest is staying within the rules, Kobe and Fisher did not.

Second, the reason Artest got ejected is he made a 'cut your throat' motion towards Kobe.  Artest tried to pass it off as saying he got elbowed but the motion wasn't the same.  That's why he got tossed.  There should be no suspension for him as it would be hard to say what Artest really meant.

I thought I saw that but I wasn't sure, that explains it and I'm ok with that since Kobe got T'd up for telling Shane that he couldn't guard him.

Fisher deserves a suspension.  Nothing you can argue there.  Whether Deron did it or not.  In this NBA that doesn't even need to be reviewed.  In the 80s that would be called fighting through a screen LOL

Agreed for the most part and I also agree with your Rondo comments.

WOW..I am a bit confused.  You've been complaining that the Lakers are not tough enough.  Clearly they showed their toughness and hunger last night.  Now they are not coached well?  I am a bit thrown off. 

You did not understand my comment.  I thought the Rockets reacted to the "drama" and the refs much better than the Lakers.  The Rockets had a freethrow parade because they understood the situation way better than the Lakers.  Anybody who watches NBA basketball knows that after some "drama" the refs tighten up the game big time.  The Lakers did not take advantage of that situation on offense PLUS they fell into the trap by not easing up on defense.  I was specifically addressing that situation in regards to player smarts and coaching.

If it wasn't for Artest turning into Lebron/Kobe/Wade all the sudden with his jump shot the game would have been a big time blow out.  I don't expect Artest to continue to shoot that well the entire series.  Some of the shots from 3 he was hitting were pretty sweet and DEAD ON.  I don't know if Ive seen him shoot the ball this well over 2 games as he has in this series.  Maybe JoMal has.  Not that he's a bad offensive weapon it's just he is pretty much lava rocks right now.

No pun indended, but I agree, Ron-Ron is out of his mind on offense.  In the second half Artest was becomming a liability on offense, ball hogging and forcing his way on offense and causing turn overs.

[WayOutWest]

Fun stuff.

Nice, physical basketball that got that way because, once again, the quality of the referees come into question. They could easily put this to rest if they wanted to by calling the elbow fouls as they occur, especially the ones that Kobe kept throwing at Artest leading up to the final one. Deron's elbow falls into the same category, as do Fisher's.  

Artest clearly was getting sick of the high elbows that Kobe was getting away with, but to be honest, I can't see the refs EVER doing anything serious about what Kobe does, as opposed to, say, a Ron Artest who complains about it, gestures across his neck to indicate what Kobe had been doing, then getting tossed by "Little Man Syndrome" Crawford because, well, Ron Artest just did a slashing motion across his neck and Joey is essentially a coward.

But that cuts both ways. The Rockets were also getting chippy, especially Scola. Too bad I will miss the rest of the series and the playoffs.  

FYI, Artest is throwing more elbows than all the Lakers combined.  If the refs called it like they should the Rockets would not have won a single game.  The fact that the refs are "letting them play" benifits the Rockets 10X more than the soft Lakers.  Gasol has an extreemly difficult time scoring on the Rockets backup center because they are letting him get away with a lot of pushing, dislodging and shoving.

IMO Scola and Artest are playing perfect physical basketball, enough to stay within the rules and enough to screw up the Lakers heads.  That's why I think PJ needs to get control of the Lakers, the Rockets will goad (sic?) the Lakers into a physical and retalitory (sic?) game and the Lakers will lose.

[msc]

Alston obviously deserves to be suspended simply because he slapped House in the head and any time you go at the head with a hand, fist, elbow, whatever the rules clearly state a suspension is warranted.

Artest does not deserve any kind of suspension and won't get one. He was ejected primarily because he is Ron Artest and has a well documented history of flying off the handle. Any other player and that would have just been a technical. He's going to be officiated differently than say Shane Battier for obvious reasons and he should be. That guy is certifiably insane; I'd be scared if I were sitting courtside next to Jack last night. Have any of you been watching his interviews over the past few weeks?!? Crazy eyes killah! It's laughable to me that Artest is crying about physical play. That's his M.O., yet he can't take it? Please. He never throws elbows, he claims. Reality, in between your Kobe youtube lovefest searches, please search "Artest + elbow" and let us know what pops up.

I guess I'm a completely un-objective homer, because I don't think Fish deserves a suspension at all. He went for a hard body block foul to counter the impending screen coming from Scola. It looked to me that Scola was a little farther from Fish than Fish initially thought when he started to throw his body in to him and with Scola running full speed at him the contact was exacerbated and ended up being worse than Fish intended. But even if one doesn't buy off on that explanation, it still was just a hard body block foul. He didn't throw a punch or an elbow to the head. He threw a shoulder in to Scola and while Fish's head ended up making some contact, I respectfully disagree with jn that it was a head butt. Probably warranted a flagrant 1, IMO, but fine a flagrant 2 w/ejection works too. Has the NBA really become so wussified that a guard can't throw a hard body block and run through a screen set by a forward? If so I'm trading my Laker tix for Sparks tix next season.

Houston is an extremely physical team. They worked the Lakers over in Game 1, yet the foul discrepancy was extremely slanted in Houston's favor (btw, still waiting for Reality's outcry over that discrepancy in Game1). Game 2, the Lakers fought back and here we are crying about Kobe's elbows fighting for position under the basket and Fish's death blow to Scola. This is turning in to a great series and what playoff basketball should be all about. Bring on Game 3!

[westkoast]

First of all the fighting under the basket for a rebound is hardly something to cry about in playoff basketball.  Is anyone in the media or otherwise going to bring up the fact that Artest is abusing Ariza's ribs with elbows of his own?  I honestly am surprised Ariza has not broken a rib yet.  And guess what?  It's perfectly fine in my book.  That is tough playoff basketball.  Artest is playing physical like he should.

That's pretty much what I said, Artest is staying within the rules, Kobe and Fisher did not.

Second, the reason Artest got ejected is he made a 'cut your throat' motion towards Kobe.  Artest tried to pass it off as saying he got elbowed but the motion wasn't the same.  That's why he got tossed.  There should be no suspension for him as it would be hard to say what Artest really meant.

I thought I saw that but I wasn't sure, that explains it and I'm ok with that since Kobe got T'd up for telling Shane that he couldn't guard him.

Fisher deserves a suspension.  Nothing you can argue there.  Whether Deron did it or not.  In this NBA that doesn't even need to be reviewed.  In the 80s that would be called fighting through a screen LOL

Agreed for the most part and I also agree with your Rondo comments.

WOW..I am a bit confused.  You've been complaining that the Lakers are not tough enough.  Clearly they showed their toughness and hunger last night.  Now they are not coached well?  I am a bit thrown off. 

You did not understand my comment.  I thought the Rockets reacted to the "drama" and the refs much better than the Lakers.  The Rockets had a freethrow parade because they understood the situation way better than the Lakers.  Anybody who watches NBA basketball knows that after some "drama" the refs tighten up the game big time.  The Lakers did not take advantage of that situation on offense PLUS they fell into the trap by not easing up on defense.  I was specifically addressing that situation in regards to player smarts and coaching.

If it wasn't for Artest turning into Lebron/Kobe/Wade all the sudden with his jump shot the game would have been a big time blow out.  I don't expect Artest to continue to shoot that well the entire series.  Some of the shots from 3 he was hitting were pretty sweet and DEAD ON.  I don't know if Ive seen him shoot the ball this well over 2 games as he has in this series.  Maybe JoMal has.  Not that he's a bad offensive weapon it's just he is pretty much lava rocks right now.

No pun indended, but I agree, Ron-Ron is out of his mind on offense.  In the second half Artest was becomming a liability on offense, ball hogging and forcing his way on offense and causing turn overs.

Ahh okay I get what you meant now.  Not only should they have known to simmer down because of the ejections....both teams were told in their huddles at a timeout to chill out.  This was right before the Odom/Scola/Walton T-fest.

Anyone have a replay of Kobe's elbow to Artest?  I only saw the play once.  To me it just looked they were really fighting for position and Artest tried to stand over Kobe which let to an elbow in the throat.  Hard to give Kobe the benefit of the doubt when he has elbow'd someone before out of frustration.