Author Topic: congrats laker fans  (Read 2987 times)

Offline Ted

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congrats laker fans
« on: April 25, 2009, 10:49:38 PM »
Went to the game tonight. Even tried to talk some trash with Miguel before the game.

The refs sucked. The Jazz sucked worse. The bad calls went both ways.

And Kobe was just unkind. Nailed all kinds of ridiculous shots.

Anyway, congrats Laker fans.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2009, 11:58:45 AM »
First of all, this I'd being posted from my iPhone. That sentence took me 7 minutes to tap. I suck at this. Second I'm pretty sure that these machines are going to take over the human race in matter of decades.

Anywho, congrats to lakers. They re just the better team. I actually thought Brewer might of done a better job Kobe.  It's lookin like Kobe and Lebron in the finals.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2009, 12:34:12 PM »
First of all, this I'd being posted from my iPhone. That sentence took me 7 minutes to tap. I suck at this. Second I'm pretty sure that these machines are going to take over the human race in matter of decades.

Anywho, congrats to lakers. They re just the better team. I actually thought Brewer might of done a better job Kobe.  It's lookin like Kobe and Lebron in the finals.

I'b byen tIping fer yars and knOt emprov ed muc, so meybe shuld sTat using ongly thubs.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2009, 01:21:21 PM »
I wouldn't recommend it JoMal, that first post (and this one too) was all thumbs.
I'm learning!!
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Offline westkoast

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2009, 02:09:58 PM »
I dunno Skandery.  When a good player gets hot there is nothing any defender can do.  Kobe did the same thing against Ron Artest towards the end of the year.

One question I wanted to ask or at least something I wanted to bring up.....

Where was Boozer's brawn in game 4?  In game 3 he was playing physical and using those muscles he has against the more weak Laker big men.  Obviously he had a monster game and the Jazz got the W.  What happened by the next game?  Now you can't always have monster games of 20 and 20 but there is no excuse for him not to bully around Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, or  Andrew Bynum.  They do not have the strength to deal with him.
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Offline msc

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 04:15:48 PM »
Thanks for the congrats, Ted and Skandery. 

Before the game I was thinking this one could go either way, but likely wouldn't be as close as the last one. Either the Jazz were going to grab the momentum they built from game 3 and expand on it, or the Lakers snuff that out and establish their own momentum going back to LA.  Then when I read Tex has suffered a stroke I felt that Phil would use that to get the squad even more juiced up to come out with a fire.  Then Kobe came out aggressive and on fire and I felt pretty good about our chances.  Kobe just wasn't going to let them lose that one.  That, plus a couple of role players (Walton, Vujacic, Brown) stepping up helped a lot. 

That said, this series isn't over until it's over.  Granted winning three in a row will be a tough feat for the Jazz, this team won't lay down like the Pistons did this year.  You can always count on a Sloan coached Jazz team to come back fighting and scratching and I see them doing just that tonight. 

 



Offline Ted

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2009, 08:11:28 AM »
I dunno Skandery.  When a good player gets hot there is nothing any defender can do.  Kobe did the same thing against Ron Artest towards the end of the year.

One question I wanted to ask or at least something I wanted to bring up.....

Where was Boozer's brawn in game 4?  In game 3 he was playing physical and using those muscles he has against the more weak Laker big men.  Obviously he had a monster game and the Jazz got the W.  What happened by the next game?  Now you can't always have monster games of 20 and 20 but there is no excuse for him not to bully around Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, or  Andrew Bynum.  They do not have the strength to deal with him.

Nearly all of Kobe's shots were pretty well contested in Game 4. He was hitting all kinds of step back jumpers, fall aways, he only got a few easy shots. He was just out of his mind.

Boozer had a pretty good game. He didn't have that meanness he showed when he dunked on Gasol and Odom, but he still had 20 and 15. That's what we need from him. The Jazz just couldn't stop the Lakers from scoring.

From the nosebleeds, it looked like the single biggest weakness for the Jazz was and is turnovers. Until Deron can cut his turnovers in half, Chris Paul will always have an advantage over him, even though Deron owns him head to head. (See! I snuck that little tidbit into a post yet again!)

This season leaves me scratching my head. What are we supposed to do now? Boozer says he's opting out, but I don't see how he can make more money somewhere else, and he's going through a divorce, so who knows how that's going to affect him.

AK47 is simply making too much money. I think he can be an effective player still, but ever since he went to 5th option on offense his effort has dropped big time. A fresh start would probably do him some good. Right now, after this playoff series, I'm kind of wishing we'd trade AK for either a defensive stopper or a scoring guard. Maybe we should make two trades?

Kirilenko for Kevin Martin
Boozer for Tyson Chandler

Starting lineup of

Deron Williams
Kevin Martin
Paul Millsap
Mehmet Okur
Tyson Chandler

Ahh . . . daydreaming can be fun.
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"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline westkoast

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 08:40:27 AM »
Also (this is a quick drive by, Ted I will respond when I get back to the hotel tonight),

Do you guys feel Boozer as good as gone?  And with as impressive as Millsap has been pretty much the entire year do you guys care as much as you did, say at the start of this past season?
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Offline jn

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 12:39:16 PM »
For those who really know the Jazz, what do you think it will take for them to take the next step and become a real threat to win it all or at least get to the Finals?  Is it something that can still be worked out from with the current team or is a trade neccessary?


And I see Ted's comments about trading AK47 so that answers that part.  Any other thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 12:57:28 PM by jn »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2009, 02:05:40 PM »
For those who really know the Jazz, what do you think it will take for them to take the next step and become a real threat to win it all or at least get to the Finals?  Is it something that can still be worked out from with the current team or is a trade neccessary?


And I see Ted's comments about trading AK47 so that answers that part.  Any other thoughts?


IMO they just need to stay healthy for a majority of the season and possibly address their lack of outside shooting at the 2 guard, Kobe was showing zero respect and just floating in the lane for help defense.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 02:56:54 PM »
On top of what JN is saying or in addition...

With out talking trade what do you do about them being pathetic on the road (in terms of their talent level)?  They wont win anything being that bad on the road.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 10:52:18 AM »
The biggest problem with the Jazz (and I'm curious where Ted is at on this one) is the seeming incompatibility of the TOP players and Coach Sloan, save Deron Williams.  To put it bluntly Sloan knows what it takes and almost always does it the right way; the players often-times do not.  Now Deron Williams is Sloan's wet dream come true for Point Guards:  1)he works hard, 2)plays tough, 3)rises to meet challenges, etc.  Carlos Boozer is Sloan's ironic nightmare from satan:  A big, powerful, bruising, very talented, Power Forward in need of a heart transplant and who can't play a lick of defense if his life depended on it.  Okur, an offensively-talented big man who is a little too soft and does most of his damage from the perimeter.  Andrei Kirilenko:  a dynamo who can be a one-man wrecking crew on defense if, AND ONLY IF, he plays a major offensive role.  Sadly for AK, generating his own shot attempts are difficult and awkward and actually diminish the team attack.  So he is ignored and reverts to half-hearted, soft Euro player.   

I posted this months and months ago.  The Jazz have to get rid of Carlos Boozer.  They have Paul Millsap behind him, who may not be talented enough to get 25 ppg (like Boozer) but will find his 18-20 points, get you the 11 rebounds, and lay his HEART OUT on the floor.  The Jazz must keep Deron Williams at all costs.  They should have tried to trade Boozer by the trade deadline for a scoring shooting guard.  At this point the best they can hope for is that another team will go for a sign-n-trade to get something for him.  The next best scenario is Boozer opts out and the Jazz just let him walk. 

Kirilenko is making too much money and you may have to use his contract to get your guard.  But the stone cold fact is the Jazz need a legit scoring presence that has range from everywhere.  Kevin Martin would be perfect, a 25 ppg guard who won't command a lion's share of possessions, but will open up lanes for Williams and make room for Millsap to work.  I like the progression of Brewer (an efficient defensive player), but you could easily get rid of C.J. Miles to make the numbers work.  If the Spurs are ever, EVER disenfranchised enough with Ginobili to get rid of him.  He would be another perfect fit for the Jazz. 

Bottom line is you have to get rid of Boozer because he holds the ominous position of being one the top 2 players on the team who set the tone.  And the guy is softer than silly putty in an oven; teams will generally follow suit with their leaders.  A lineup with Williams, Martin (or Ginobili), Kirilenko, Millsap, Okur; with Price/Brewer/Korver as backups is solid.  Just use the MLE to get yourself a big to act as defensive backup.  Williams and Millsap is the primary, two-pronged attack and will set the tone for hard work, physicality, and competition.  Kirilenko must start and play his 32-35 minutes to be involved enough offensively to become the devastating type of defender that disrupts teams.  The guy still has the tools to be that 2 steal, 3 block guy;  but if he is uninvolved then he's uninterested.  If the Jazz simply don't want AK to be that big of a presence, then you have to trade that ball-n-chain contract he's holding.  Hopefully you get a starter caliber forward and a defensive-minded backup (Caron Butler and Dominic McGuire from Washington would be the GOLDEN jackpot).  Then you got Okur who is just one big lumbering, Turkish, mis-match.  He has the bulk and ability to bother and mildly annoy Centers while shooting 3s on the outside (like a more talented, much less dirty version of Laimbeer).

If you let Boozer walk, sign the 2 guard, and use the MLE to get a defensive minded big man.


Team 1
Starters
Williams
25 PPG efficient SG (Kevin Martin is proto-type here)
Kirilenko
Millsap
Okur
Primary Backups
Brewer
Korver
Price
"Chris Anderson/Ronny Turiaf" type

Give that team health and they'll reak some havoc in the West.  It would still be a stretch to compete and potentially beat a team like the Lakers (unless of course the Lakers are dumb enough to get rid of Odom).

If you let Boozer walk, sign the 2-guard, and trade Kirilenko in a dream scenario:

Team 2
Starters
Williams
Martin
Butler
Millsap
Okur
Primary Backups
Brewer
Korver
McGuire
Collins
Price

If that team is coached with an emphasis defensively, the sky is the limit.  Few teams will be able to match the talent level offensively.  Williams will FINALLY have someone else capable of generating offense for himself and others (Butler).  While Martin (and his backup Korver) can be on the court at the same time to bomb from the perimeter.  You can have Millsap post and send Brewer/Butler crashing.  Or you can have Butler post and send Millsap crashing.  Then you have a bench of brutalizers McGuire, Collins, and Brewer.  Gelling together would be a big issue, and you don't have a Duncan/Jefferson/Gasol/Shaq type of post presence to make everything else easier.

The main thing is as long as Boozer stays, Sloan will continue to have to PLAY him, and the Jazz' competitive fire will continue to be gravely wanting. 
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline JoMal

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Re: congrats laker fans
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 11:04:27 AM »
Skandery -

While I certainly can see why you feel a Kevin Martin would be an ideal fit for your Jazz scenario, the Kings would have no use for Boozer (maybe Kirilenko), and frankly, it would leave the Kings with a humongous hole to fill if he were to leave. After giving up all the skill players left in Sacramento EXCEPT Martin and with a very young squad to nurture, Sacramento can ill afford to continue being the farm team for playoff squads.

However, what we really need is a take charge point guard. One that can control the tempo of a game and be fearless running the lane and still get the ball out to the shooters and feed the big guys underneath. Someone like Williams, though he lags behind the likes of Paul and Parker in the west, he would be the only Jazz player the Kings could really use.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."