Arizas cheapshot on Blazer Fernandez

[WayOutWest]

You're right WOW, HD is sweet.  You've convinced me that it is without a doubt a frustration play with malicious intent. 

Yea, those pics of Ariza's hand on Rudy's right hand holding the b-ball are really convincing. 

[Lurker]

Try here:

http://www.lakersmedia.com/?p=1053

You can CLEARLY see Ariza hit the hand/ball before hitting the arm.  HD is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Anyone reading the thread.  Click on WOW's video link.  I want someone to tell me what Trevor Ariza is doing at the exactly 50 second mark.  There's another better angle at exactly 1:00.  And another good angle at 5:36.  Someone tell me WTF Trevor Ariza is doing? 


You're right WOW, HD is sweet.  You've convinced me that it is without a doubt a frustration play with malicious intent. 

Rudy is going in for a layup from the left to the right side of the basket.  He is raising up and switching the ball from his left hand to his right hand.  Ariza comes from behind and swipes at the right hand hitting the wrist (knocking the ball free) and Rudy's head at the same time.  The follow through then catches Rudy's left arm and twists him around as he falls.  Look at the still photos WOW posted...the ball is in Rudy's right hand when Ariza hits him.

A good hard foul that deserved a flagrant call.  If Rudy jumps up then it is only a flagrant 1 but since he stayed down it was a 2.  No additional punishment warrented.

Then to get back to my original point.  That is the end of that infraction.  Then Odom does the stupid thing and gets involved.  Infraction #2 and punishment #2.

[Laker Fan]

Try here:

http://www.lakersmedia.com/?p=1053

You can CLEARLY see Ariza hit the hand/ball before hitting the arm.  HD is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Anyone reading the thread.  Click on WOW's video link.  I want someone to tell me what Trevor Ariza is doing at the exactly 50 second mark.  There's another better angle at exactly 1:00.  And another good angle at 5:36.  Someone tell me WTF Trevor Ariza is doing? 


You're right WOW, HD is sweet.  You've convinced me that it is without a doubt a frustration play with malicious intent. 

Rudy is going in for a layup from the left to the right side of the basket.  He is raising up and switching the ball from his left hand to his right hand.  Ariza comes from behind and swipes at the right hand hitting the wrist (knocking the ball free) and Rudy's head at the same time.  The follow through then catches Rudy's left arm and twists him around as he falls.  Look at the still photos WOW posted...the ball is in Rudy's right hand when Ariza hits him.

A good hard foul that deserved a flagrant call.  If Rudy jumps up then it is only a flagrant 1 but since he stayed down it was a 2.  No additional punishment warrented.

Then to get back to my original point.  That is the end of that infraction.  Then Odom does the stupid thing and gets involved.  Infraction #2 and punishment #2.

As succinctly put as ever Lurker, and a statement I 100% agree with. THERE WAS NO MALICIOUS INTENT!!! If you look at WOW's stills, it looks to me like Ariza is clearly trying to elevate and his eyes are on the ball the whole way through, his arm and shoulder are at weird angles as he tries for the ball/hand. Like Lurker said, a good, hard foul, no more, no less, I mean, this isn't Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry we're talking about,  , it's Trevor Ariza, I don't believe for a minute his thought process was anything other than, "This is ridiculous, we're getting smoked, and I'm not about to let this cat score another point", Is that frustration? Absolutely! But these cats are competitive as can be and I understand when they don't give up even when they are getting blown off the court.

The level of punishment meted out was appropriate for both Trevor and Lamar, I'm right, and anyone who disagrees is ugly!

[JoMal]

The level of punishment meted out was appropriate for both Trevor and Lamar, I'm right, and anyone who disagrees is ugly!

In WOW's, case, that would be Butt Ugly.

[Skandery]

Rudy is going in for a layup from the left to the right side of the basket.  He is raising up and switching the ball from his left hand to his right hand.  Ariza comes from behind and swipes at the right hand hitting the wrist (knocking the ball free) and Rudy's head at the same time.  The follow through then catches Rudy's left arm and twists him around as he falls.  Look at the still photos WOW posted...the ball is in Rudy's right hand when Ariza hits him.

Okay, that's the entire play.  I wanted people to focus on the small, barely noticeable detail that caught my attention upon pausing at specifically the seconds I mentioned.  I replayed the play dozens of times, sometimes pausing it intermittently and saw that just BEFORE Rudy Fernandez initiated his move to the air, Ariza is seen cocking his right arm out and back.  Again this is hard to see at (50.5 seconds), clearly seen at 1:00, and seen best 5:36. 

Why cock your arm back, rather than go directly for the ball (as with the Tayshaun Prince highlight)?  The only plausible reason:  the angle of vision precluded Ariza from seeing where the ball was and out of frustration (as Lakerfan astutely points out) resolved to stop Fernandez' basket AT ANY COST!


And no matter how high WOW's blood pressure gets, doesn't change the fact that if Andrei Kirilenko (my favorite player) did this to Kobe Bryant, I'd be calling for AK's head just the same.   

[Joe Vancil]

Try here:

http://www.lakersmedia.com/?p=1053

You can CLEARLY see Ariza hit the hand/ball before hitting the arm.  HD is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Anyone reading the thread.  Click on WOW's video link.  I want someone to tell me what Trevor Ariza is doing at the exactly 50 second mark.  There's another better angle at exactly 1:00.  And another good angle at 5:36.  Someone tell me WTF Trevor Ariza is doing? 


You're right WOW, HD is sweet.  You've convinced me that it is without a doubt a frustration play with malicious intent. 

Rudy is going in for a layup from the left to the right side of the basket.  He is raising up and switching the ball from his left hand to his right hand.  Ariza comes from behind and swipes at the right hand hitting the wrist (knocking the ball free) and Rudy's head at the same time.  The follow through then catches Rudy's left arm and twists him around as he falls.  Look at the still photos WOW posted...the ball is in Rudy's right hand when Ariza hits him.

A good hard foul that deserved a flagrant call.  If Rudy jumps up then it is only a flagrant 1 but since he stayed down it was a 2.  No additional punishment warrented.

Then to get back to my original point.  That is the end of that infraction.  Then Odom does the stupid thing and gets involved.  Infraction #2 and punishment #2.

As succinctly put as ever Lurker, and a statement I 100% agree with. THERE WAS NO MALICIOUS INTENT!!! If you look at WOW's stills, it looks to me like Ariza is clearly trying to elevate and his eyes are on the ball the whole way through, his arm and shoulder are at weird angles as he tries for the ball/hand. Like Lurker said, a good, hard foul, no more, no less, I mean, this isn't Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry we're talking about,  , it's Trevor Ariza, I don't believe for a minute his thought process was anything other than, "This is ridiculous, we're getting smoked, and I'm not about to let this cat score another point", Is that frustration? Absolutely! But these cats are competitive as can be and I understand when they don't give up even when they are getting blown off the court.

The level of punishment meted out was appropriate for both Trevor and Lamar, I'm right, and anyone who disagrees is ugly!

I'm not claiming malicious intent;  I'm claiming a stupid, flagrant foul of frustration - the kind that has no place in basketball, and needs to be punished more severely than a simple ejection from the game.

I'm of the opinion that VERY FEW flagrant fouls are anything OTHER than stupid, over-done fouls of frustration.  SURE, I understand the mentality of "I don't want to see them score another point..."  But there's a line that you cross - a line of judgement - when that becomes "...and I don't care how I hit you to send you that message."  There are fouls, there are hard fouls, and there are DANGEROUS hard fouls.

There's a difference between trying to make a stop, and trying to stop a play.  This was the latter.  There's also a difference in a hard foul and a dangerous hard foul.  Again, this was the latter.  And there's a difference between a foul commited on an important play and a foul committed on a meaningless play.  And again, this was the latter.

The standard of "getting the ball" also entails the endangering actions you took to in order to get the ball.  Ariza's got NO EXCUSES here.  And this is coming from a guy who has long been an Ariza fan.

[Skandery]

And this is coming from a guy who has long been an Ariza fan.

Seriously!  Joe's been on Ariza's jock since he was a rookie benchwarmer in New York. 

[ziggy]

Nuff said!

As far as your wonderful Hi Def pictures you can't see anything, it is all just one great big blur.  You can't tell if Fernandez's right hand is touching the ball.  In the above photo it is very clear.  The ball is in Fernandez left hand, his right hand is 6-8 inches away.  He had already transferred the ball, and Ariza was hitting him.

[jn]

Because of the intensity of the debate here and the amount of time you guys have spent breaking down the footage I've decided to call  this the Zapruder Replay.  Next comes the fans in attendance claiming there was a second fouler behind the grassy scorer's table.

Bottom line for me is that nothing I know about Ariza indicates that he is the type of guy to intentionally hurt someone.  Nevertheless he definitely earned an ejection and Odom had to be suspended to keep consistensy in the rules.

[ziggy]

Because of the intensity of the debate here and the amount of time you guys have spent breaking down the footage I've decided to call  this the Zapruder Replay.  Next comes the fans in attendance claiming there was a second fouler behind the grassy scorer's table.

I now feel like Newman, and I am sure Keith Hernandez spit on me.

[jn]

 

Now that is one magic loogy!

[Lurker]

Bottom line for me is that nothing I know about Ariza indicates that he is the type of guy to intentionally hurt someone.  Nevertheless he definitely earned an ejection and Odom had to be suspended to keep consistensy in the rules.

But jn that isn't ENOUGH!!!!!!!

Ariza should be drawn and quartered for even thinking about trying to stop a breakaway.  The entire Laker organization should be banned to the hitherlands of Minneapolis from which their slimy kind arose.  I am still trying to figure out why the Spurs battled so hard last night...afterall it was a frickin' 20 point lead!

[Skandery]

Ariza should be drawn and quartered for even thinking about trying to stop a breakaway.  The entire Laker organization should be banned to the hitherlands of Minneapolis from which their slimy kind arose.

C'mon Lurker, let try and keep things in perspective.




. . . and Minnesota this time of year?

 

[Lurker]

. . . and Minnesota this time of year?

 

Been there, done that.  One of the worse curses around...may you be trapped in Minnesota in the dead of winter.  Now to be there in the summer/fall is FANtastic!

[jn]

What are you talking about?  It's uh..it's TWO degrees above freezing.  Ownage!!