Don't Laugh: Brand or Iverson?

[RickyPryor]

Hear me out...  I believe I probably like Elton more than most here.  Last year I thought we needed a veteran, fundamentally sound Big.  And so when I heard about the Brand acquisition I thought we'd gotten a very important piece to our puzzle.  Still do.  One can tell Brand knows the game...and he'll be terrific once his shoulder heals and he regains confidence from two difficult injuries.

The issue I have now...today...is that we STILL have no personality on this team.  Who the hell even speaks in the locker room?  Reggie Evans?

Don't discount that (as I see it) necessary ingredient; one that every great team in every sport in the history of the world has shared...  It's what wins games late, provides confidence during a incredibly lengthy season, gives a team an 'edge'.

Now assume that's all true...  How'd this look?

Miller - PG
Iverson - 2
Iggy - 3
Thad - 4
Sam - 5

Williams as the 6; Speights as first Big.  The rest fall in line.

I cannot even imagine how lethal we'd be in transition.  How exciting we'd be to watch.  How hard-nosed we'd be.

Of course, there is a trade-off.  There always is: Our defense would be suspect in the backcourt (but we'd still have Green and Ivy)...and we'd be pretty small.

But that small-ness creates issues for other teams; not just ours.  And we could just as easily go big by going Sam/ Speights.

Still not sold?

How'd we match-up with this team:

Snow - 1
Iverson - 2
Lynch/McKee - 3
Hill - 4
Mtumbo - 5


Hmmmm?

[Skates]

OK, I read it.  I'm not laughing or remotely interested. 

[RickyPryor]

OK, I read it.  I'm not laughing or remotely interested. 

Interested enough to take the time to respond.  So expand please.

[Sundown]

I don't like the Iverson/Miller backcourt even a little bit.  As much as people complained about Iverson allowing dribble penetration I think that Miller is even worse.  Together it would be a layup line. 

The real question is would you want Iverson back to solve our shooting guard issues while also keeping Brand.  You'd lose Miller in the process, but that might be intriguing since Iguodala might be able to handle some point duties.  I don't see it happening in a million years, but it would be interesting. 

[RickyPryor]

The real question is would you want Iverson back to solve our shooting guard issues while also keeping Brand.  You'd lose Miller in the process, but that might be intriguing since Iguodala might be able to handle some point duties.  I don't see it happening in a million years, but it would be interesting. 

No.  I rather enjoy having a real PG on the team.

[Sundown]

Then no, I'd rather keep the team the way it is.  Brand is better than what he's shown so far and he's going to make a difference in the very near future IMO.  I want a guy like Iverson for the end of games, but he doesn't fit with Miller even a little bit.

[Skates]

The proposal as written was interesting based on your effort to make it so.  My lack of interest is for any proposal to move Brand for Iverson.  I really don't want Iverson back.  Our biggest issue going forward is what to do with Miller, whether we re-sign him or, if not, replace him.  As I noted in another thread if Miller goes I might take some interest in moving Brand in the right deal and really hand over the team to the younger core.  None of those things would include AI coming back, that is a ship that has sailed for good IMO.

[RickyPryor]

The proposal as written was interesting based on your effort to make it so.  My lack of interest is for any proposal to move Brand for Iverson.  I really don't want Iverson back.  Our biggest issue going forward is what to do with Miller, whether we re-sign him or, if not, replace him.  As I noted in another thread if Miller goes I might take some interest in moving Brand in the right deal and really hand over the team to the younger core.  None of those things would include AI coming back, that is a ship that has sailed for good IMO.

Fair enough.

Keep in mind I ask from the most basic stance:  If we made a switch tomorrow...would we end the season with a better record and go further in the playoffs, or would we be less successful.  Which guy fits better and makes us better now - and this year.

[tk76-]

As for your comparison to the 2001 team, AI(2001)>>AI(2009).  Today he may be craftier and smarter, but back then he was unstoppable, and there was no way to account for him.

Miller/AI/Iguodala makes for 3 players who are rhythm shooters and slashers.  None of them are particularly good at hitting a spot up jumper.  In fact the 2001 team also lacked spot up shooters, which they overcam with great defense and AI just decimating defenses and fouling opponents out.

[Skates]

I very much doubt that Iggy would accommodate AI again the way he did before.  The team is already pretty hard nosed, but clearly a team that also practice hard and works on execution, even if it does not always perfect it.  Miller needs to handle the ball to be effective, something that just won't happen with AI around.  As tk noted, AI is no longer a true force of nature, just a good scorer who can't defend anyone at SG or PG.  Guys like Iggy, Thad, Speights and Lou all need more touches than they would ever get with AI.  Brand at this point can anchor the D, has a more varied offensive game and is a hellacious rebounder.  No, I would not make that switch/trade/whatever for this year or the future.

For the short term one might more reasonably ask if the whispered rumor of Brand for Rasheed Wallace would make more sense for the Sixers just for this year, than any move for Ai would be.  Wallace, when motivated and healthy, does not need a lot of shots to be effective, plays very good D at both big spots and can hit the three.  Not that I want to trade for him, but Wallace would be a much more suitable replacement for Brand this year tham AI would.

[RickyPryor]

As for your comparison to the 2001 team, AI(2001)>>AI(2009).  Today he may be craftier and smarter, but back then he was unstoppable, and there was no way to account for him.

Miller/AI/Iguodala makes for 3 players who are rhythm shooters and slashers.  None of them are particularly good at hitting a spot up jumper.  In fact the 2001 team also lacked spot up shooters, which they overcam with great defense and AI just decimating defenses and fouling opponents out.

To me the offenses don't remotely compare.  AI aside, every position currently boasts the potential for MUCH more offense.

And defensively, I think it's closer than you do.  Thad and Iggy vs. Hill and Lynch/McKie?  Better then...by a little bit only.  Snow vs. Miller?  Then for sure.

[rickortreat]

I think the current version of the Sixers is much better than the team that went to the finals.  Dalembert is better than Mutumbo, and at this stage better than Theo. Speights will turn out to be better than all of them.
Thad Young is an All-Star caliber player, much better than Tyrone now, and with lots of upside. And Brand absolutely blows away Tyrone as a player.
Miller is better than Snow offensively, and that makes up for his comparatively weak defense.
At present, both Lou Williams and Andre Iguodala have higher PER's than Iverson. You could make the argument that both of them are better players now, although not when he was at his peak with the Sixers. Aaron Mckie was a nice player, but not at Lou or Andre's level.

It's also true that the league as a whole has improved, and IMO, that Sixer team wouldn't get through the current Boston roster. We can't say yet if the current version can, but I think they have a better chance.

[bebopdeluxe]

As somebody who has been on record as hoping/praying for a "AI for the MLE" deal this summer, I have been open to having AI back...but with this team's recent play, I am beginning to waffle a bit.

I like the sharing of the ball I see.  I like the general committment to defense.  I like the growth in Iguodala's game.  I fear that having AI back will take so many touches away from Iggy and Thad's game that they will potentially regress instead of continue to grow.  I think that - eventually - a well-used Lou can give us 80-85% of AI's impact with significantly less drama.

So...umm...I pass.

[RickyPryor]

As somebody who has been on record as hoping/praying for a "AI for the MLE" deal this summer, I have been open to having AI back...but with this team's recent play, I am beginning to waffle a bit.

I like the sharing of the ball I see.  I like the general committment to defense.  I like the growth in Iguodala's game.  I fear that having AI back will take so many touches away from Iggy and Thad's game that they will potentially regress instead of continue to grow.  I think that - eventually - a well-used Lou can give us 80-85% of AI's impact with significantly less drama.

So...umm...I pass.

But since Iverson currently averages more assists than any of our beloved Sixers...except Miller, whom he trails by exactly one...your point might not hold water.

[RickyPryor]

I think the current version of the Sixers is much better than the team that went to the finals.  Dalembert is better than Mutumbo, and at this stage better than Theo. Speights will turn out to be better than all of them.
Thad Young is an All-Star caliber player, much better than Tyrone now, and with lots of upside. And Brand absolutely blows away Tyrone as a player.
Miller is better than Snow offensively, and that makes up for his comparatively weak defense.
At present, both Lou Williams and Andre Iguodala have higher PER's than Iverson. You could make the argument that both of them are better players now, although not when he was at his peak with the Sixers. Aaron Mckie was a nice player, but not at Lou or Andre's level.

It's also true that the league as a whole has improved, and IMO, that Sixer team wouldn't get through the current Boston roster. We can't say yet if the current version can, but I think they have a better chance.

I'm the one who started this thread and even I don't think you're being fair to the older team.

1.  Dalembert better than Mtumbo?  No.
2.  You have a very high opinion of Speights I notice.
3.  Thad is "better" than Hill in what way?
4.  Brand wouldn't be on the team in this current scenario.
5.  How does Miller's pathetic defense get made-up-forby his superior offense?  Don't they offset?
6.  Uh, no.  I cannot make the argument that Iggy and Williams are better - even now - than Iverson.
7.  Aaron was SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR.  Yet you have him trailing not one - but TWO of our Sixers.  Completely unfair.
8.  How about coaching?