Author Topic: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count  (Read 2514 times)

Offline Joe Vancil

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A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« on: January 23, 2009, 10:10:46 AM »
Okay, it should be obvious by now that Jerry Sloan is never going to get a Coach of the Year award.

I'm proposing that we honor Jerry Sloan in a different way - the "Sloan Count" - the number of coaches fired during Sloan's tenure with the Jazz, and the "Sloan List" - a list of them.  Every time a coach gets fired, the "Sloan Count" gets announced, and the coach gets put on the "Sloan List."

With Mark Iavaroni's booting in Memphis yesterday, I believe the count is at 225.  Given that the folks being discussed for the job include Lionel Hollins (whose name appears once on the Sloan List) and Johnny Davis (whose name appears several times on the Sloan List), that number figures to go higher, especially since Sloan just signed a one-year extension.

Also, given the Iavaroni was coveted by Brian Colangelo, whoever is in Toronto may be headed to the Sloan List pretty soon.

What does everyone think of the "Sloan Count" idea, and what does everyone think of the Grizzlies booting Iavaroni?
Joe

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Offline Lurker

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2009, 10:35:55 AM »
How many COY winners are on the Sloan list?

Does PJ count?  He was never fired but has "quit/retired" twice.

Iavaroni got the shaft IMO.  He was given a young roster last season that then traded (no, GAVE) away its best player.  Then got even younger this year.  Then there is the issue of who the "over-30 vets" are:  Steve Francis, Marko Jaric and Greg Buckner - not exactly the players you want young guys looking up to for guidance.  There are some solid players in their starting 5 but no one is over 26 years old.

Conley   21 (Lowry  22)  they split the time pretty much evenly
Mayo     21
Gay       22
Warrick  26
Gasol     23
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Offline westkoast

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2009, 11:15:45 AM »
How many COY winners are on the Sloan list?

Does PJ count?  He was never fired but has "quit/retired" twice.

Iavaroni got the shaft IMO.  He was given a young roster last season that then traded (no, GAVE) away its best player.  Then got even younger this year.  Then there is the issue of who the "over-30 vets" are:  Steve Francis, Marko Jaric and Greg Buckner - not exactly the players you want young guys looking up to for guidance.  There are some solid players in their starting 5 but no one is over 26 years old.

Conley   21 (Lowry  22)  they split the time pretty much evenly
Mayo     21
Gay       22
Warrick  26
Gasol     23

I feel the same exact way.  How is what happened fair for both the coach and the team? 

Obviously the coach did not get a fair chance to develop the team for the reasons you stated above.

How is this fair to the squad?  Some of the younger players like OJ Mayo and Marc Gasol were developing at a solid pace.  If a new system comes in with a new coach is that not like hitting a reset button?
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2009, 11:50:18 AM »
Iavaroni got the shaft IMO.  He was given a young roster last season that then traded (no, GAVE) away its best player.

Gasol     23

Putting aside the Pau4Peanuts issue, was anybody surprised how good Marc is comming into the NBA?  Obviously not as skilled as his brother but he's not a bum either.  He's putting up numbers comprable to Bynum and he seems tougher than both Pau and Andrew.  Marc is pretty stocky and more suited to play C than Pau.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2009, 11:53:28 AM »
Iavaroni got the shaft IMO.  He was given a young roster last season that then traded (no, GAVE) away its best player.

Gasol     23

Putting aside the Pau4Peanuts issue, was anybody surprised how good Marc is comming into the NBA?  Obviously not as skilled as his brother but he's not a bum either.  He's putting up numbers comprable to Bynum and he seems tougher than both Pau and Andrew.  Marc is pretty stocky and more suited to play C than Pau.

I agree, Pau is more of a PF than C.  Marc also has surprising quickness for as big as he looks.  He makes you think Big Country at first then he spins or hits the glass quickly and you see that he could develop into a much better player than his brother.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2009, 11:59:42 AM »
Iavaroni got the shaft IMO.  He was given a young roster last season that then traded (no, GAVE) away its best player.

Gasol     23

Putting aside the Pau4Peanuts issue, was anybody surprised how good Marc is comming into the NBA?  Obviously not as skilled as his brother but he's not a bum either.  He's putting up numbers comprable to Bynum and he seems tougher than both Pau and Andrew.  Marc is pretty stocky and more suited to play C than Pau.

I agree, Pau is more of a PF than C.  Marc also has surprising quickness for as big as he looks.  He makes you think Big Country at first then he spins or hits the glass quickly and you see that he could develop into a much better player than his brother.

There are Lakers fans that think the Grizz got the better end of the deal in the Gasol trade.  While Gasol is clearly the better player, the difference between Marc and Pau is NOT enough to offset the salary that Pau commands because it has serious implications to the Lakers ability to keep the team together.  At first I thought they were crazy, now I don't think they are crazy but just a little blind to the fact that Pau makes the offense run much better, it's not just about Pau's numbers.  Only Pau and Walton seem to be able to understand and execute the triangle effectively, I don't think Marc would have been able to do the same.  While a combo of Marc/Bynum could equal the numbers that Pau/Bynum put up, because Bynum would put up more numbers, I very much doubt the Lakers would be doing as well as they are doing right now BUT it's not as impossible as I initially thought when I heard the crazies talking about the Lakers getting robbed by the Grizz.
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Offline Ted

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 12:13:10 PM »
There are Lakers fans that think the Grizz got the better end of the deal in the Gasol trade.

Yeah, and you're not even taking Kwame and Crittendom into account. IMO, the Grizzlies totally fleeced the Lakers. Chris Wallace is a genius.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2009, 12:33:10 PM »
There are Lakers fans that think the Grizz got the better end of the deal in the Gasol trade.

Yeah, and you're not even taking Kwame and Crittendom into account. IMO, the Grizzlies totally fleeced the Lakers. Chris Wallace is a genius.

Very "Kobe-like".  Trading a proven player, who made an All-Star appearance and is one of only 3 players in NBA history to amass (sci?) big numbers in various catagories, for an unproven guy nobody ever really heard about except in small circles.
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2009, 04:43:38 PM »
If you're serious about that, I can name you a ton of GMs who'll be glad to give you Javaris Crittendon, Kwame Brown, and Marc Gasol for Kobe Bryant.

Let's keep in mind that this was when Kobe was an as-of-yet untested rookie.  We saw exactly what Crittendon and Brown had done up until that time, and Gasol had been playing in Europe.

Any way you want to slice it, the Lakers got an absolute steal, and Memphis set themselves well on the road to re-establishing the tradition they hoped to leave behind in Vancouver.  The deal was a joke, and Memphis is a joke.
Joe

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Offline westkoast

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2009, 05:13:22 PM »
If you're serious about that, I can name you a ton of GMs who'll be glad to give you Javaris Crittendon, Kwame Brown, and Marc Gasol for Kobe Bryant.

Let's keep in mind that this was when Kobe was an as-of-yet untested rookie.  We saw exactly what Crittendon and Brown had done up until that time, and Gasol had been playing in Europe.

Any way you want to slice it, the Lakers got an absolute steal, and Memphis set themselves well on the road to re-establishing the tradition they hoped to leave behind in Vancouver.  The deal was a joke, and Memphis is a joke.


If in two years Marc Gasol starts posting 20-10 will you take it back?

I am not trying to say the deal is great.  I think it was a bad trade.  Just don't feel it's as bad as everyone wants to make it out to be.  The Lakers traded for the short term (to win now) and the Grizz traded for the long term (young big man and cap space to build).
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2009, 05:18:30 PM »
If you're serious about that, I can name you a ton of GMs who'll be glad to give you Javaris Crittendon, Kwame Brown, and Marc Gasol for Kobe Bryant.

Let's keep in mind that this was when Kobe was an as-of-yet untested rookie.  We saw exactly what Crittendon and Brown had done up until that time, and Gasol had been playing in Europe.

Any way you want to slice it, the Lakers got an absolute steal, and Memphis set themselves well on the road to re-establishing the tradition they hoped to leave behind in Vancouver.  The deal was a joke, and Memphis is a joke.


If in two years Marc Gasol starts posting 20-10 will you take it back?

I am not trying to say the deal is great.  I think it was a bad trade.  Just don't feel it's as bad as everyone wants to make it out to be.  The Lakers traded for the short term (to win now) and the Grizz traded for the long term (young big man and cap space to build).

I'm saying the trade IS as bad as everyone thought but maybe there will be a lucky break in Marc becomming a very good player.  Crazy-Stupid luck, which is why only the crazy-stupid people saw it comming....
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"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2009, 05:43:31 PM »
If you're serious about that, I can name you a ton of GMs who'll be glad to give you Javaris Crittendon, Kwame Brown, and Marc Gasol for Kobe Bryant.

Let's keep in mind that this was when Kobe was an as-of-yet untested rookie.  We saw exactly what Crittendon and Brown had done up until that time, and Gasol had been playing in Europe.

Any way you want to slice it, the Lakers got an absolute steal, and Memphis set themselves well on the road to re-establishing the tradition they hoped to leave behind in Vancouver.  The deal was a joke, and Memphis is a joke.


If in two years Marc Gasol starts posting 20-10 will you take it back?

I am not trying to say the deal is great.  I think it was a bad trade.  Just don't feel it's as bad as everyone wants to make it out to be.  The Lakers traded for the short term (to win now) and the Grizz traded for the long term (young big man and cap space to build).

No, I won't.  If in two years, Marc Gasol starts posting 30-15, it's a bad deal, because it means your team gave up three years of 20-10 that is yours to get the right to bid against everyone else three years and a ton of losses later, at which point, they're better off to trade Marc Gasol, because they're losing tons of games and need to rebuild.

Any team that isn't about WINNING NOW isn't a team, but a corruption of the idea of being a team.  Sports are pointless unless everyone is trying to win, and win now.  Rebuilding is a convenient lie to tell the masses, with a real meaning of, "We're not playing to win right now, but we want your money as if we were."

Part of the problem can be seen by just looking at Stephon Marbury.  Here's a talented player, on a bad team.  What does he want to do?  Get bought out, so he can go to make a good team even better.  Ditto with Sam Cassell last year.  It's about getting paid, and then getting bought out and joining a contender in hopes of winning a ring.  It's not about making your own team as good as it can be anymore.

Heck, look at Kobe Bryant before the start of last pre-season.  Everyone was saying, "Chicago is going to be good;  Chicago's an awesome young team," and what does Kobe say?  He wants to go to Chicago.  Surprise, surprise.

So, no, I don't believe in "building for the future."  The future is *NOW*.  Ask Miami if they're unhappy with the title they won by trading Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant for Shaq.  Hey - Butler's an All-Star now....

The bottom line is that it's about winning NOW, and establishing a winning tradition, which will attract good players that lead to WINNING LATER.  If you're a joke of a team, you lose Elton Brand when you get Baron Davis.  That doesn't happen if you're a team with a legacy of winning.
Joe

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Offline Ted

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2009, 05:48:36 PM »
I'm saying the trade IS as bad as everyone thought but maybe there will be a lucky break in Marc becomming a very good player.  Crazy-Stupid luck, which is why only the crazy-stupid people saw it comming....

I can agree with that.

I think the difference between this trade and the Kobe trade is partly perception, too. Back then, you had Jerry West pulling the trigger on a risky move, not Chris Wallace. Also, the Lakers had Shaq coming in for nothing, so trading away your starting center for a high school highlight reel didn't look so bad anymore. It was a risk, but they had the most dominant guy in the game coming in. Memphis had diddley.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: A proposal: The Jerry Sloan Count
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2009, 10:07:39 PM »
Quote
Memphis had diddley.

Memphis didn't even have Diddley??  I believe he died a couple months prior to the trade.  He could play some guitar, though!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 10:16:17 PM by Skandery »
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