Author Topic: OT - Obama a short term president?  (Read 5808 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2009, 02:19:18 PM »
Joe "posting" in this thread for over 5 minutes only to bail earlier and now LF Dan is reading this....I'm fugged!  :D
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
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"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2009, 03:27:57 PM »
I'm not going to spend too much time taking very much as serious conversation when a person is playing upset by name-calling such as "welfare queen," "immigrant job stealer," "gay family value destroyer," and "Islam America killer," but observes the problem as "conservative in-breeders."


Joe

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Offline JoMal

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2009, 04:11:37 PM »
Annointing Reagan as a "great" president is a stretch. His economic plan of the 80's led directly to the lax restrictions adopted by later presidents, particularly Dubya, which gave the financial markets the carte blanche to rape the American middle class. "Trickle Down" economics proved to be a boon to CEO's across the country to vote themselves huge bonuses as retirement funds were drained off. The stupidity regarding sending the marines into Lebanon led to a series of future embarassments for the U.S. on military fronts, once it was revealed, quite publically on the International front, that you could kill sleeping marines in their beds with immunity to consequences.

He DID scare the hell out of the Soviets, and this hastened - it did NOT instigate - the eventual collapse of the Soviet Union. That would have happened for sure eventually because that economy was a complete joke and was known to likely fail decades before.

But that so-called high point of Reagan's administration resulted directly to the absolute worst outcome we are going through for the last twenty years. Two adages come to mind from that: Nature hates a vacuum and it is much, much better to know a familiar enemy then an unknown foe. Terrorist groups have filled the Soviet void and we still know little about them,  how they work, and what to do about them. While the Soviet Union existed, at least they shared being the target of these groups along with us. Now, they only need to deal with internal terrorists, but can actually work as the "good guys" for international hate groups united to bring us down.

Under Bush, the absolutely worst person we could have had as president while Rome burns, we clearly have peaked as a world power and we are now part of the generation who will witness the decline of America. Thanks to Bush, who did the unthinkable by reducing taxes for the most wealthy in this country, then borrowed billions from Russia and China to fund his wars, which now must be paid back for the next fifty years by the American middle classes - your children and grandchildren may see the end of that tunnel, at least - can thank Reagan for starting the ball rolling downhill for the American dream.

Hey, at least we stopped gay marriages!!   ;)
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2009, 04:19:05 PM »
I'm not going to spend too much time taking very much as serious conversation when a person is playing upset by name-calling such as "welfare queen," "immigrant job stealer," "gay family value destroyer," and "Islam America killer," but observes the problem as "conservative in-breeders."

That was the point of my comments, "small town America" turns into "conservative in-breeders" under the great Reagan blue print, just like people trying to work for a better life turns into "immigrant job stealer" etc..etc..

The Great Reagan administration took a page out of the Demo's "play the black card" "play the white card" playbook.  Actually they only took out half the page and "played the white card" to death, until it's Jesus-like resurrection by the Dubya Bush regime.

The irony is this devisive game that eventually breaks down to no communications at all is the pefect outcome for the Reagan blue print.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 04:23:01 PM by WayOutWest »
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline rickortreat

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2009, 05:04:45 PM »
Reagan did NOTHING to address the real problems facing this country. He deregulated banking and was at the root of the S&L disaster.  He did nothing to stop or stem the outflow of manufacturing jobs from America. In spite of Congress' restrictions, he illegally sold arms to Iran to fund an illegal intervention in Nicaragua.  He did undermine the Soviet Union, but so what?  They were never a real threat and their system was destined to fail anyway.

Reagan, the great communicator, cobbled together a new conservative movement in this country linking the Goldwater conservatives with the right-wing religious establishment, undermining race-relations and labeling Democrats as tax and spend liberals while he increased the deficit by a huge amount when every Democratic President LOWERED it. He skewed understanding so that the poor and uneducated were made into villains, and he closed the mental hospitals, putting crazy people out on the street and turning them into homeless people. 

He was a likable affable fellow, but he made terrible decisions and did nothing to put the US on the right track again.  Japan gave him 2 Million for a speech after he left office, a small price for all the US jobs that were destroyed while enabling Japan to increase it's manufacturing base.  He was a disaster as a president and the fact that people still think he was a good one, shows just how little people understand about what a President can and should do, and what he should not do.

I agree that he set the stage for Bush 1 and the idiot Prince George Bush, who stole an election thanks to the republican cronies (appointed by Regan) on the Supreme Court who over-ruled the Fla. Supreme Court when they HAD NO LEGAL STANDING according to the US Constitution.  The Republican revolution Regan started has led us to a financial abyss and the financial collapse of the US.  Had Regan addressed the underlying problems in the US, we might have averted the disaster that is now inevitable.  Had he closed the Federal Reserve and returned us to a gold standard, China would never have been able to grow so rapidly, undermining business after business in the US. Had he renovated trade laws so that countries could not do business with the US unless they allowed their currencies to trade freely, America would still have been on a growth path, instead of encouraging people to speculate in real estate and other financial instruments which has led directly to our downfall as a nation.

As for Obama, he has been dealt the worst hand of any President since the last depression.  Our freedom and independence have been so undermined that honest people have a hard time making a living.  The world is far more dangerous and the US is far weaker and unable to protect itself than at any time since the end of WW2.  I support him because I sense that he truly understands the real problems we face. I'm afraid he will have to resort to massive public works projects to enable people to put food on the table, destroying what is left of true private enterprise and true capitalism.  We are on a path to hyperinflation now as the banksters have sold us their useless toxic derivatives, which caused their bankruptsy in the first place. The last people who should have been bailed out, these incompetents and crooks have taken $350 billion dollars which could have gone to infrastructure and roads and health care into god knows where and refuse to tell Congress what they did with it.

Obama is our only hope, and I can only hope that he gets a break here and there as he tries to keep this society from disintegrating.  No jobs and no opportunity will encourage lawlessness as people struggle to survive.  How can you not steal when you are starving with no recourse? Sorry to be such a bummer, but really, this situation is so bad that I am ashamed of what we have done, or allowed to happen.

Offline Ted

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2009, 06:10:23 PM »
That's got to be some kind of record! 348 words before Rick mentioned gold.  :D
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline rickortreat

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2009, 06:51:17 PM »
That's got to be some kind of record! 348 words before Rick mentioned gold.  :D

Thanks and God Bless you Ted. I needed a laugh.

Offline Ted

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2009, 06:53:27 PM »
Reagan Republicans definitely mischaracterized the Dem's fiscal policies. But it's not a one-way street, as some of you show so well. Can't believe we have to post these again.

Preface: The commentary embedded in these videos is obviously very accusatory and anti-Democrat. I don't believe the sub-prime debacle is nearly as one-sided as these make it out to be. But for the love of honesty, please stop trying to lay it all at the feet of Reagan or Bush. If you want to bitch about deregulation, why don't you start talking to Barney Frank or to ACORN or to their attorney? Increasing middle and lower class home ownership was, is, and will always be a worthy cause. Just be smart about it please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

As for Obama being dealt the worst hand since FDR, I'd probably agree, although Reagan didn't exactly walk into a cherry of a job either.

And finally, a quote from the greatest President since FDR:

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
-William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President of the United States and Master Cigar Afficionado
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 06:56:28 PM by Ted »
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Ted

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2009, 06:54:19 PM »
Thanks and God Bless you Ted. I needed a laugh.

Same to ya Rick. And thanks for taking that in the spirit in which it was intended. See that Randy?!? WoW?!? That's how you take a joke!
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 12:31:54 AM »
Reagan Republicans definitely mischaracterized the Dem's fiscal policies. But it's not a one-way street, as some of you show so well. Can't believe we have to post these again.

Preface: The commentary embedded in these videos is obviously very accusatory and anti-Democrat. I don't believe the sub-prime debacle is nearly as one-sided as these make it out to be. But for the love of honesty, please stop trying to lay it all at the feet of Reagan or Bush. If you want to bitch about deregulation, why don't you start talking to Barney Frank or to ACORN or to their attorney? Increasing middle and lower class home ownership was, is, and will always be a worthy cause. Just be smart about it please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

As for Obama being dealt the worst hand since FDR, I'd probably agree, although Reagan didn't exactly walk into a cherry of a job either.

And finally, a quote from the greatest President since FDR:

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
-William Jefferson Clinton, 42nd President of the United States and Master Cigar Afficionado

I wasn't referring to our current disaster of a country, though you are probably addressing Rick's points.  I was referring to Regan specific memories, things like racist undertones in speaches/comments, tax cuts for the rich, blame the poor for everything under the sun, the comming of age of homophobia, under the table arms deals with foreign govs...oh wait....did I get my parties muddled?  :D  Deja-vu all over again it seems...It's the Reagan memories that planted the seed of my questioning my parents 18+ years of Republican programming.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Ted

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 10:40:05 AM »
I wasn't referring to our current disaster of a country, though you are probably addressing Rick's points.  I was referring to Regan specific memories, things like racist undertones in speaches/comments, tax cuts for the rich, blame the poor for everything under the sun, the comming of age of homophobia, under the table arms deals with foreign govs...oh wait....did I get my parties muddled?  :D  Deja-vu all over again it seems...It's the Reagan memories that planted the seed of my questioning my parents 18+ years of Republican programming.

No, I wasn't responding to you, in fact . . . have you posted anything in this thread? Let me go back and see if . . . oh yeah . . . there it is. Let's see . . . Reagan racist, hates the poor, loves the rich, homophobic in-breeders, white power, KKK, American History X . . .

No wonder I missed it. I've heard it before.  ;D

"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 12:22:39 PM »
Apparently, I'm not the only person to consider Obama the rightful heir to Reagan's legacy:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/180491
Joe

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009, 12:34:25 PM »
I've heard it before.  ;D

Did you ignore then as well?  Did you pretend it didn't really happen?

Funny thing, as obvious as that tactic is, it usually works.  :(  If HUGE things can be ignored of course the little Reagan "quirks" can be as well!

Party at Nanking's house!  Rwanda beers all around!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 12:36:52 PM by WayOutWest »
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 12:40:38 PM »
Apparently, I'm not the only person to consider Obama the rightful heir to Reagan's legacy:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/180491


Dang, I guess that tax cut I was hoping for is going to millionaire CEO's after Obama restructures the tax burden to the most loopsided distribution in history.  NOT looking forward to Obama's "Carreer Killer Immigrant Terrorist" speech.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Ted

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Re: OT - Obama a short term president?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009, 01:15:20 PM »
Did you ignore then as well?  Did you pretend it didn't really happen?

Absolutely not! I read it, pondered it, was changed forever by it. Thank you for it. Don't be a hater just because I passed over the 87 subsequent reiterations.  ;)
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton