DiLeo is harming this teams development

[tk76-]

This is a post I'm putting up at phillyarena.net (Also posted at RealGM, but I expect better conversation here.)

I'm at a loss for why the team went to DiLeo as Mo's replacement. They took a great scout and took him away from what he was good at. DiLeo is feeling his way as a caretaker coach while the team waits a year (for financial reasons) to hire a new coach  If they needed to save money that much then they should not have fired Mo or not extended him in the first place. This team needs to develop, and much of what I see points in the wrong direction. Looking at their key young players:

1. Thad's future is at SF, but he basically is a full time PF under DiLeo. This delays his development into his natural position another year.

2. Speights needs to get consistent minutes and several plays each game to work on his low post game. If Sam gets his low post touches then why not Speights (or Thad for that matter?) Speights' minutes could be 15 a game or 25 a game, but he can't go from 30+ to 8 then zero. Look at the yo-yo his minutes have been on the last 10 games:
2, 10, 18, 21, 24, 31, 18, 17, 7, 0
If that is not a roller-coaster then I do not know what is. When a young player's minutes are given and then taken away so capriciously it gets into their head. I'm sure DiLeo expects him to learn from watching a good vet defender like Theo, but its more likely Speights is lost in thought about where his PT has gone. Coaches assume young players learn by watching. Coaches learn by watching, young players learn through experience guided by coaching.

3. Lou has gotten more consistent minutes under DiLeo, but almost always at SG. This has helped him get back on track as a scorer. However, they need to give him a block of time each game where he works on his skills as a distributor- ideally alongside good scorers (not Ivey, Evans and Theo.) I'm not saying he will become a starting PG, but at 22 he still can develop to where he can play as the primary back-up PG as minutes where he is more of a scorer.

4. Iguodala has done a good job coming out of his early season funk (much like last year.) He needs to embrace the role of creator and complementary scorer. To my eye, DiLeo wants Iguodala to play the role of go to scorer for this team. Maybe that is dictated by personnel, but Young, Lou and Speights should be scorers and Iguodala should be a facilitator. Asking him to be the #1 hurts him and the team.

[RickyPryor]

I'd love nothing more than to agree with you...but I can't say I support some of your points.

1.  Thad is playing the PF because Brand is hurt.  Prior to that he WAS playing SF.  I suspect he'll return to that spot when Brand returns.

2. While Speights does need consistent minutes, you reference games that Tony didn't coach.  (That's the point of the thread, right?  DiLeo?)  And during TONY's time here, Marreese has played consistent minutes - with the exception of these last two games.  Prior to those, Speights sucked for a couple games...PLUS, last night there wasn't a Mav Marreese could defend.  I said, prior to the game, that we should not expect to see him last night.  I do believe he'll be back to a more consistent rotation against San Antonio.  Let's give Tony the benefit of the doubt on this one.

3.  Williams IS a 2.  I don't believe he'll ever be a PG...and apparently neither does Tony.  Green as back-up PG is fine for now.

4.  While Iggy should for sure be a #2 option on this team (a #3 on a great team)...our Number One is currently healing from a dislocated shoulder.  When he returns, the need for Iggy to score will subside a bit.  The three guys you mention are in no way ready to be our Number One option. (How Speights was included on that list of yours is doubly curious.)


The issues I have with Tony are game-day related.

1.  He has no idea how to win in the 4th.  (He may have learned this trick from Mo.)  One minor thing...but last night there was a time we desperately needed to press, in the closing minutes.  He had one man pressing (against three ball-handlers) and a second man guarding the inbounds pass!  Dear lord, Tony.  Defend the recipients so the ball is steered toward where YOU want it to go...not the damn guy out of bounds.

2.  ...then, as he attempted to trap the backcourt guys (during said press), he left NO ONE in the SECOND LINE to intercept an errant pass.  Which, of course, is the whole idea behind pressing.  Forcing mistakes and aggressively taking advantage of them.

3.  Why does Jimmy Lynam run our time outs in crunch time?

4.  Why have I seen our half court swing the ball ONCE all season (just last week)?  One play; one time.  While well-coached teams do this 15-25 times per game.

5.  Why do NONE of our players slash to the basket to receive in the half court?  (Last night Young did...and scored, of course.)

6.  And the biggie for me:  I have never seen a basketball team - on any level - switch men so frequently on defense.  It's as if they are TOLD to.  Otherwise, how else could you explain abandoning your man at every opportunity?  Watch the play last night where Miller fouled Dirk in the act.  Why was he ON HIM?  You'll see when you watch...  That's lazy, lazy defense.  Never - ever - switch unless absolutely necessary.  Teach these guys to 'feel' a screen and avoid it.  Don't know how? Go watch a CYO game.


That's why I didn't want Tony.  Not because he doesn't understand his players' roles.  I think he actually does.

I didn't want him to coach - because he can't.

[Derek Bodner]

They took a great scout and took him away from what he was good at

I think DiLeo's still a scout in the organization.  I have no doubt that when our 82 games are over DiLeo will go back to his old position.

1.  Thad is playing the PF because Brand is hurt.  Prior to that he WAS playing SF.  I suspect he'll return to that spot when Brand returns.

Thad was playing PF before Brand was hurt.  In the games before Brand got hurt, Thad was moved to the bench, with Willie at the 2 and Iguodala at the 3.  Most of Thad's minutes at that point were coming in a small-ball lineup.

2. While Speights does need consistent minutes, you reference games that Tony didn't coach.  (That's the point of the thread, right?  DiLeo?)

No he didn't.  He listed one game (that's singular) from Mo's tenure.  The other 9 were under DiLeo.  The point still stands.  Going from 24, to 31, to 18, to 17, to 7, to 0 minutes hurts a young players development.  I'm with tk.  20-25 minutes/game is fine, but they need consistent minutes.

[anklebreaker]

^^ agreed.  I was happy to hear DiLeo say that he would be implementing a strict 8-9 player rotation when he took over because I thought it meant consistency for the players and the lineups... The last few games have been a far cry from what I was looking for. 

[Skates]

I don't like Thad at PF or Speights on the bench either.  I would pin Thad's playing PF to Brand being hurt, but he has played PF since Mo inserted WG into the starting line-up, a decision DiLeo continued until Brand got hurt.  When Brand gets back I will be very unhappy to see Thad playing on the second unit again if this pattern continues.

As for Speights, I will defer to DiLeo only to the extent that we don't see what is going on in practice.  If Speights is struggling badly in practice with his D and rebounding he may be rooted to the bench until he earns his minutes back.  Funny, there was no mention of Speights not playing in any of the Philly area stories I read today.  Either they don't think it is a big enough deal to report on or they are not trying to pile on a kid who has been benched to teach him a lesson.  It sounds like DiLeo is making defense a priority for the team from what I read and if it is a lesson that Speights learns in short order and makes him a better NBA player going forward I am all for it.  If this is just about sitting the rookie and playing more veterany guys, then I will be cheesed off.

I am OK with Lou doing what he is doing.  He played more PG earlier in the year and struggled.  He is simply not a PG and he is excelling in his current role.  He still brings the ball up at times, but even when he does he is looking to score.  It really is the perfect role for him and he has made nice passes off of drives and elsewhere in the halfcourt.  He is one guy on the team playing his proper role, I won't complain about that.

Iggy is not a number 1 scorer, we all know that.  With Brand out they have treated him as one though.  That is one thing I have not liked about DiLeo.

One of the things DiLeo is supposed to be doing is evaluating the current players before the deadline.  My worry is that he is trying a win at all costs approach that will hurt the young guys long-term.  If he is trying to win himself a permanent coaching role I think the team will disappoint and we will see more of Mo's end of tenure line-ups filled with veterans and devoid of the younger guys.  If he is really evaluating the team and players we should see some big moves by the deadline.  I will give them til then to make me a believer.

[tk76-]

My worry is that he is trying a win at all costs approach that will hurt the young guys long-term.  

Giving heavy minutes to low upside vets makes me think he is trying to win at all costs, if only to keep this team from completely falling apart from too many losses.  But the vets like Evans, Green and Theo are just not that much of an upgrade to make it worthwhile on any level.

Also, I don't see how Speights will learn anything on the bench.  This is a fallacy that coaches have.  As I said before, coaches learn by watching, young players learn through experience (and coaching.)  Speights need regular minutes and to have the coach in his ear,  Not to be left sitting at the end of the bench.

As for Lou, I agree with you all that he is more of a sg than a pg (Lou says this all the time too.)  That does not mean he can't improve.  I'm hoping he can develop enough skills that he is the main back-up at PG.  They should not need to send out a Kevin Ollie type to be back-up PG.  I think if Lou was told to be PG for one 5 min run each game (with starters and not scrubs) he could improve enough to be a serviceable pg.  This would help his role on the team moving forward.  He still would still primarily be a scorer, but would be able to fill in at pg when needed. 

[Skates]

I agree about learning in games, my point with Speights is more about what his attitude and effort are in practice.  If he is just sitting because he is making mistakes despite trying hard on D, then I completely disagree about sitting him except if the game is late and close.  He should still play regular bench minutes if that is the only problem.  However, if he is not making the requisite effort in practice and games on D and rebounding, that is another story altogether and benching his butt temporarily is the only option.

I still see Lou handling the ball a lot on offense and it appears that except when Miller is in there with him they are basically playing two guards without definign one in either role.  Telling Lou to switch back and forth is what had him so confused earlier this year.  Even when he initiates the offense he does so with most success when he looks for his shot first.  Call him a passing SG or a scoring PG, it doesn't matter, it is hwat he is.  Plus his favorite passing target is Speights, so Marreese not playing much lately is probably making Lou look much more SG-ish.  The guy is playing well right now, I care less what they call him.  In either case he will always need another good ball handler at the other guard or wing position to help him, we just need to acquire more talented depth to go with him, no need to go for a Kevin Ollie type.

If they are trying to win at all costs, they are doing a crappy job of it.  Any possibility that Ratliff is being showcased?  He is the kind of second team big that teams like Denver are looking for if he shows he can still play.  Or with Sammy supposedly on the block they are seeing how much of a big man they need to get back to stay competitive if Sammy goes.  Overly positive thoughts, you betcha, but isn't that normally what Sixers fans have to hang onto.

[RickyPryor]

During that one 6-game stretch, Marreese averaged 21.5 MPG.  Not bad...appropriate even.  A nice job by Tony building the kid's playing time.

But, in the last of those 6 games (Utah), Mr. Speights pulled down a whopping 0 rebounds in 17:40 of action.  Zero.  During the game prior to that (Denver) he grabbed two whole boards; one at each end, in 18:10.  One defensive board in almost 36 minutes.

One.

Marreese needed to sit 2-3 games to contemplate things.  Clear his head.  It's not like his shot was off (in which case a benching would have an adverse affect)...he wasn't focused, determined or - apparently - even trying.

Someone 6'10" should have grabbed several TIMES that number.  By accident.  (Heck, during those two games Reggie Evans grabbed 17 boards in his 45 minutes.  I'd have taken HALF that from Speights.)


I say let's give Tony more than two games before we crucify him for punishing an underachiever.


 

[rickortreat]

The problem is, Speights is being perceived as an underachiever when he has the highest PER of any Sixer. Which is more important, scoring or rebounding?  Which do the Sixers need more?

The development of the team refers to changing the team's type of play so that they win, or at least are closer to winning than they are now.

I don't see much effort to change things, however.  We see more of Evans and now Ratliff and less of Dalembert. We still see the team trying to play small ball whenever possible, even to the point where the team has no shot-blocker in the paint.  We see a team that tries to force turnovers and run, except that Andre Miller is piss-poor at hitting a man streaking down the floor and always misses the pass to the first open cutter.  And finally we see that the team hasn't changed at all, and continues to loose, when they actually won a few games last season with much the same group.

This implies that the team is regressing, not progressing.  They are not changeing the way they play, just doing it less effectively. Some of the groups DiLeo puts on the floor do not do all the things an NBA team needs to do to win. You should always have a shot-blocker in the game, and always have people dedicated to rebounding. You should also always have an outside shooter and an inside player so that you can spread the floor. We're loosing because the personnel DiLeo is choosing to put on the floor doesn't get it done.

Therefore, the only choice is to try to play differently and to try to do more of the things a good team does.  Without Speights in there, DiLeo is preventing the team from developing an inside game, an effective half-court game, because he is the only one the Sixers have that can play that way.  The other thing DiLeo should be doing is playing Marshall more, since he can actually shoot a three ball.

When the team started faltering in the fourth against Dallas, I would have put in Marshall to take some shots. I would much prefer seeing him hoisting a three than Andre Miller!  DiLeo was a successful coach at one time, but I don't see a lot from him, other than maybe turning Speights into a head-case. And managing to find ways to loose games without even putting up a fight, which really makes me sick.

[RickyPryor]

The problem is, Speights is being perceived as an underachiever when he has the highest PER of any Sixer. Which is more important, scoring or rebounding?  Which do the Sixers need more?

Rebounding.

Because that leads to scoring.

But, anyway, I believe he underachieved in two games.  That's it.  No big deal.  He'll be back before you can say "PER".

[Derek Bodner]

During that one 6-game stretch, Marreese averaged 21.5 MPG

Are you intentionally trying to disregard the point others are saying?

Nobody's arguing average minutes.

[RickyPryor]

During that one 6-game stretch, Marreese averaged 21.5 MPG

Are you intentionally trying to disregard the point others are saying?

Nobody's arguing average minutes.

Why would I intentionally disregard what others are saying.

The point is Marreese's minutes.  Is it not?

[rickortreat]

The point is that Speights isn't getting consistent minutes or a part of the team's rotation in spite of being their best performing player.

If I saw him playing badly, I wouldn't be pushing so hard for him to get minutes, but he actually seems to give the Sixers more of what they need, namely half-court scoring.  I've never seen a team that was so hesitant to take outside shots, or one that just can't shoot them. Other teams have no problem bombing away, but the Sixers try to get inside, even though they often miss those to, as the other teams defenders block their shots.

Speights has no problem shooting from the outside or the inside.  He shoots a high percentage either way.  I figure that all other things being equal, playing him more minutes should increase the Sixers scoring average, and possibly get them more wins.  It really helps when your team is confident that they can score when they have the ball, and I don't get the impression the Sixers really know what to do as a team when they take possession.

I saw Lou Williams playing point yesterday, but no one was moving or giving him an opportunity to make a play, so he went into attack mode.  All the Sixers do is play one on one ball, with either Lou, or the two Andre's trying to break down the defense. That's not enough to get it done in the half-court.

The Sixers need to learn a structured offense like Utah has and to become proficient at it. If DiLeo was doing any of that, I'd be more than willing to be patient, but he isn't.  As far as I can tell, he isn't doing anything positive for the team, other than be a little more stable with the lineup than Mo was.

Thad needs a structured offense so he can get touches.  The team naturally ignores him otherwise, and he's not assertive enough to demand the ball. even Willie Green manages to get more touches than Thad. I was expecting some solid production coming from the three spot and the four spot with Brand and Young. I would be just as happy if the combination is Spieghts and Young, as long as we get the production.

When Brand gets back, hopefully Marreese would have demonstrated enough to justify playing him at Center, and give us a front-line of Speights, Brand and Young.  Now that's a front court that just might be competitive in the NBA.

You can't have a structured offense without a reliable scorer.  You need someone that the other team knows is going to get the ball, but is still going to have trouble stopping him.  Sort of like Nowitzky for Dallas. The Sixers still don't have that guy.  Iguodala scores a lot, but he's not consistent enough with his outside shot to make people think he's MJ.  He's a good player, but he can't be the anchor to a half-court offense. Brand could be, if he was in, but since he's out Marreese is the next best option.  He hasn't even proven that he can do that, but he has shown me in the few minutes that he's played that he appears to have the ability.

If he does, the more time he has to develop this season, the better for him and for the team.

[tk76-]

I say let's give Tony more than two games before we crucify him for punishing an underachiever.

You are right in that I am jumping the gun on evaluating DiLeo.  I get fired up after games...

I am concerned with where this team is headed, but I'm sure as the losses add up they will make a move or two and focus on player development.  Its just painful to watch a team with Evans, Sam, Green and Theo all being main parts of the rotation.  Add in Miller, who likely is on his last legs as a Sixers, and the majority of the minutes are to players who should have little or no future with the team.

[Skates]

Calling Speights an underachiever is likewise harsh.  The kid is young and inexperienced, for a rookie he is very advanced and has caused no problems with the team.  He has played a lot of minutes much earlier than I expected, particularly surprising that he did so with Brand healthy.  The kid has some holes in his game and if a little tough love helps him develop a more complete game, then fine.  But calling him an underachiever presumes the team should have expected more of him to this point, and that would clearly not be the case.