Author Topic: NBA all-time overrated team  (Read 2529 times)

Offline ziggy

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NBA all-time overrated team
« on: December 29, 2008, 07:09:11 PM »
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=626#more-626

All-Overrated Team: Isaiah Rider

Posted by Neil Paine on December 22, 2008

Today we?re going to introduce a series ?highlighting? some of the more overrated players in NBA history. The concept is pretty straightforward ? just like in the last post about one-dimensional scorers, we?re looking for players whose flashy scoring exploits belie a rather substance-less all-around game. As for the methodology, we simply take a player?s career per-minute scoring average, divide by the league per-minute scoring average (weighted by minutes played), multiply by 15 (making the league average 15, like PER), and then look at the difference between the player?s ?adjusted scoring rate? and their PER. The players whose PERs lag the most officially qualify for our All-Overrated team.

To kick things off, we?re going to profile Isaiah ?J.R.? Rider, perhaps the biggest poster child for this method of determining ?overratedness?. Rider, of course, was a scoring-minded guard who averaged 19.0 points per 36 minutes for his career and ranked among the NBA?s Top 10 in usage rate twice during his 8 years as a regular. The man could certainly get his shot off against most any defender, and he had more than a little flash and dash to his game (remember the ?East Bay Funk? in ?94?). He was even named 1st-team All-Rookie in 1993-94, and made one of the league?s most memorable long-distance shots during the ?95 season.

Unfortunately, Rider?s superior ability to create shots ? some would call this a euphemism for ?ball-hogging? ? was undermined by his mediocre ability to make them actually go in the basket, his penchant for turnovers, his staggering lack of consistency, and his failure to attend to any other aspects of the game (defense, rebounding, passing, etc.). And then there was the epic spate of off-court problems, ranging from chemistry-killing insubordination to gambling and drug charges, plus a bizarre scheme in which he bought and sold illegal cell phones. Suffice to say, it was never a dull moment with J.R. Rider!

But what?s the point, you ask? I mean, why re-hash the shortcomings of a rather forgettable gunner from the 1990s? Well, to illustrate the gulf between perception and reality during the majority of Rider?s career. While his lifetime adjusted scoring rate was 19.50, his career PER was just 14.70 (a difference of 4.8, the biggest among players with at least 15,000 minutes); meanwhile, his career ORtg was 102.3 and his career DRtg was 110.0, in an environment where the league?s average rating was 105.9. In other words, efficiency was a huge issue: Rider could certainly score in volume, but he needed a lot of possessions to do it, and as a result he was only a significant contributor to 2 above-average offenses in his career.

Of course, it?s easy to sit back and pick apart Isaiah Rider as a selfish head case now, as his post-NBA rap sheet has consisted of kidnapping, drug possession, and grand theft auto investigations. But for the majority of his playing days, he was actually viewed as a viable #1 scoring option by NBA execs ? especially Pete Babcock of the Hawks, who dealt the underrated Steve Smith to the Blazers in a 1999 exchange for Rider, hoping J.R. would be the spark Atlanta needed to get over the playoff hump. Instead, he became symbolic of the Hawks? abrupt and total destruction at the turn of the millennium, a pit from which the franchise is only now re-emerging. It would be overly simplistic to blame Rider for all of Atlanta?s woes since the Portland trade? but the same type of thinking that brings him in as a go-to guy also tends to lead to 13-69 seasons. Just saying.

So, to summarize: The chasm between Rider?s reputation as a player and his on-court production was as wide as it?s been for any player, ever. He managed to combine empty, inefficient scoring with an indifferent all-around game and profound character problems in a way that few, if any, players have in NBA history. Plus, his acquisition is generally seen as the prime catalyst for one of the worst-ever 8-year runs by a team. And that?s basically why we chose Isaiah Rider to be the inaugural member of our All-Overrated Team. Any Rider fans out there disagree?
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2008, 12:35:30 AM »
Guys that jump to mind, without doing any real research are Big Dog, SAR and Kendal Gill.
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Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 10:00:47 AM »
Unfortunately, all the Rider fans who were thinking about speaking up are currently feeling really mellow...
Joe

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Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 10:10:24 AM »
Guys that jump to mind, without doing any real research are Big Dog, SAR and Kendal Gill.

Big Dog and SAR are good calls.  I would add Dominique Wilkins, Mark Aguirre, Reggie Theus, Latrell Sprewell.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 10:20:52 AM »
Big Dog and SAR are good calls.  I would add Dominique Wilkins, Mark Aguirre, Reggie Theus, Latrell Sprewell.

Nique???  Go wash your mouth (keyboard) out with soap then go stand in the corner!

What about Glen Rice and Allen Houston?  By the time Glen arrived in LA he was strictly a spot up shooter and we all KnoW about the 100 million dollar man.

I was thinking about putting MarshMello on my list but his solid all around play in the Olympics could someday make its way to the NBA.  Then there is Mr Popular in NYC that should be on the list, I think Stephon has been an overrated problem child from day 1.

Edit: no = know (How did I blow that one?)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 11:43:43 AM by WayOutWest »
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 11:29:17 AM »
Unfortunately, all the Rider fans who were thinking about speaking up are currently feeling really mellow...


Correction....those same people completely forgot who he was long before everyone else did.
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Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 11:38:50 AM »
Big Dog and SAR are good calls.  I would add Dominique Wilkins, Mark Aguirre, Reggie Theus, Latrell Sprewell.

Nique???  Go wash your mouth (keyboard) out with soap then go stand in the corner!

What about Glen Rice and Allen Houston?  By the time Glen arrived in LA he was strictly a spot up shooter and we all no about the 100 million dollar man.

I was thinking about putting MarshMello on my list but his solid all around play in the Olympics could someday make its way to the NBA.  Then there is Mr Popular in NYC that should be on the list, I think Stephon has been an overrated problem child from day 1.

Stephon Marbury, how did I miss that one.  Good call there.  I agree on Houston as well.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 11:52:11 AM »
Larry Johnson???  He was hyped up quite a bit back in the day.


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Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2008, 11:55:42 AM »
Quote
Stephon Marbury, how did I miss that one.  Good call there.  I agree on Houston as well.

Marbs had a pretty good PER.  Based on the criteria of the overratedness (which is taking into account offensive stats primarily, and not focusing on defense), I don't think Marbury will be in there, regardless of whether he deserves to be.

This is primarily looking at guys who were one-dimensional scorers who didn't contribute rebounds/assists (and also taking into account defensive stats like steals and blocks), but doesn't really take into account defensive ability at all.  Marbs impact never matched his stats, but he did always put up stats, both offensive (points and assists) and defensive (steals).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 11:59:52 AM by Derek Bodner »

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 11:58:34 AM »
Larry Johnson???  He was hyped up quite a bit back in the day.




Grandma Ma was everything he was hyped up to be and a bag of Cheetos!  After his back problems he lost his explosiveness and started to go down hill but he was an excellent all around player.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2008, 12:08:50 PM »
Larry Johnson???  He was hyped up quite a bit back in the day.




Grandma Ma was everything he was hyped up to be and a bag of Cheetos!  After his back problems he lost his explosiveness and started to go down hill but he was an excellent all around player.

That hype still carried over before he left the Hornets and while he was in NY when he fell off bad.

Nique was a better player than LJ IMO.
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Offline ziggy

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 03:41:08 PM »
Quote
Stephon Marbury, how did I miss that one.  Good call there.  I agree on Houston as well.

Marbs had a pretty good PER.  Based on the criteria of the overratedness (which is taking into account offensive stats primarily, and not focusing on defense), I don't think Marbury will be in there, regardless of whether he deserves to be.

This is primarily looking at guys who were one-dimensional scorers who didn't contribute rebounds/assists (and also taking into account defensive stats like steals and blocks), but doesn't really take into account defensive ability at all.  Marbs impact never matched his stats, but he did always put up stats, both offensive (points and assists) and defensive (steals).

I was trying to make that same judgment, but it is hard to always consider the whole picture of a player.  The players who are active today who I think would fit on the list

Corey Maggette
Tracy McGrady
Micheal Redd
Richard Jefferson
and 2 big guys
Eddie Curry
Zach Randolph
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Joe Vancil

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Re: NBA all-time overrated team
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 11:20:26 AM »
You're off the mark on Richard Jefferson, Ziggy.  This guy is as underrated and under-appreciated as they come.  Good rebounder, does a good job of getting to the line, a good defender...there's not much to NOT like about Richard Jefferson.

How about Antoine Walker?
Joe

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