Author Topic: Bye Bye Boozer?  (Read 7451 times)

jemagee

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 03:48:55 PM »
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Obviously he is not going to say 'nah dont pay me 7 million cuz I just play for fun' but I don't think it's fair to toss him into 'only playing real hard cuz it's a contract year'  like most players do.

Nor is it right to put him in the 'love of the game' category (i think) until he truly shows it - he was on a minmum salary (basically) contract trying to prove his way into the league, be it one or two years - first let's see what he does as the season progresses and teams are more ready for him and then how he plays after he gets his big deal in the off season - it's a small span of games that has everyone excited, compounded by Boozers foot in mouth disease...i'm a skeptic - i'll believe it when i see it on Millsap

Offline westkoast

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 04:07:47 PM »
Quote
Obviously he is not going to say 'nah dont pay me 7 million cuz I just play for fun' but I don't think it's fair to toss him into 'only playing real hard cuz it's a contract year'  like most players do.

Nor is it right to put him in the 'love of the game' category (i think) until he truly shows it - he was on a minmum salary (basically) contract trying to prove his way into the league, be it one or two years - first let's see what he does as the season progresses and teams are more ready for him and then how he plays after he gets his big deal in the off season - it's a small span of games that has everyone excited, compounded by Boozers foot in mouth disease...i'm a skeptic - i'll believe it when i see it on Millsap

It's not a small span of games.  Skandery has been singing his praises for over a season and a half now.  I had him on my fantasy basketball team last year so I tried to follow him as much as possible.  The hustle is not just there because it's a contract year, he hustles regardless is what im trying to say.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 04:23:38 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Ted

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 04:13:14 PM »
Millsap may ask for 12-15 million, but unless someone other than the Jazz offers it to him, he's not going to get it. He will do one of three things:

1. Sign an offer sheet from another team and have it matched by the Jazz.
I don't think it's likely any team is going to throw huge money at Millsap, especially because Boozer will probably be back eventually, and Millsap will lose the minutes he's using to put up these big numbers. The Jazz have made it clear they intend to keep him. And like jemagee said, 13 straight DDs is nice, but it is a relatively small number. Is a team really going to shell out near max money for a supposedly unproven, undersized PF? Last I checked, Isiah Thomas is out of business.

2. Sign a one-year qualifying offer for whatever the Jazz give him and become an unrestricted free agent.
Probably the only scenario where Millsap gets huge money soon. Boozer would have to leave, Millsap get all of the minutes, and be huge for a full season. Then the Jazz would be forced to shell out the dough. Seems like a fairly unlikely scenario. If somebody comes to him with 7-8 million per year next offseason, I don't see him turning it down. And at that level (and probably up to 10 million), the Jazz will match. He's not getting 10 million.

3. Sign a multi-year extension with the Jazz.
Probably wouldn't happen unless AK47 is traded for an expiring contract somewhere. Maybe Boozer. I wouldn't hate to see this happen; at least then he would know the Jazz value him and he'd settle in for a nice long run.

Whether Millsap will continue play hard or not is a settled question in my mind. He has played hard consistently for nearly 2 1/2 seasons in the pros. You say that's not enough to show what he really is . . . okay. Well, let's look at college. Millsap led the NCAA in rebounding for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS as a fairly undersized PF/C at La Tech. I think he's earned the right to be called a workhorse. You can try to make him out to be the next Eric Dampier, but he has proven himself for 7 straight years to be a baller. I'll bet on Millsap anytime.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 04:15:41 PM by Ted »
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 10:16:57 AM »


Whether Millsap will continue play hard or not is a settled question in my mind. He has played hard consistently for nearly 2 1/2 seasons in the pros. You say that's not enough to show what he really is . . . okay. Well, let's look at college. Millsap led the NCAA in rebounding for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS as a fairly undersized PF/C at La Tech. I think he's earned the right to be called a workhorse. You can try to make him out to be the next Eric Dampier, but he has proven himself for 7 straight years to be a baller. I'll bet on Millsap anytime.

That's what I was saying.  He is not working hard just because it's a contract year.  It actually has more to do with his boost in minutes and bigger role so early in the season.
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Offline Skandery

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2008, 01:16:57 AM »
Jemagee, being a Philly fan, I'm sure you remember that under-sized PF coming out of Auburn, a lightning rod shaped like a "round mound" who just seemed to work for that "rebound" tirelessly.  Had a nickname for it, can't remember it, though. Now, don't anybody on here get their panties in a ruffle, I AM NOT CALLING PAUL MILLSAP THE NEXT CHARLES BARKLEY.  This message should not be construed that way at all. 

Although one similarity is the tireless way that they both went after rebounds.  Millsap is a down low, rugged, post player --a brute's brute.  He likes it in the trenches, the battle in the painted area.  He did it for 4 years at La Tech and he's done it the NBA when he's had the chance.  This is not a finesse, face-up big man ala Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Bosh, Chris Webber, Dirk Nowitzki, etc.  He just fights down there and to be honest, its because he has to.  The guy is listed at 6'8 and that's being generous.  Barkley was listed at 6'6 and was probably closer to 6'4. 

I don't think a fat contract changes your basketball style.  This isn't reminiscent of a Tim Thomas playing hard in the playoffs for that contract, or Erick Dampier--a chronic underachiever who exploded the year he needed a contract.  By any stretch, Millsap has done nothing but over-achieve, a nobody kid from a nobody school drafted in the 2nd round who had to fight his way through summer camp to get a roster spot.  I just don't see his basketball style or demeanor changing.  His desire may change and whether that leads to a subdued efficiency or decrease in hustle stats/plays we'll see.  I'd be slightly surprised.  I think no question Millsap is going to do three things for you if you give him 30 minutes:

1) he is going to rebound
2) he is going to OFFENSIVELY rebound (I love players that fight for offensive rebounds)
3) he is going to bang some bodies on the defense. 

Now like you said and what is less of a given, we'll see if he keeps up these 20 point scoring forays when teams study and adjust to his pet moves, perhaps start double-teaming him, push him out further than where he likes to operate.  I've always said if Millsap can find 18 points in a 30-35 minute game, that's all we need from a starting PF.  His other problem is staying out of foul trouble when being relied upon for extended mintes.  In 29 games, he's racked up 114 fouls and that's tops in the league.  You like that he always plays hard, he's just gotta let some go.   
I think O'Connor found a gold mine in the 2nd round--you don't lead NCAA Div I basketball in rebound 3 straight years (I believe it was 3 Ted, I don't think he led the nation his freshman year) if you don't have a knack and a desire for the ball, especially being undersized.

---------------------

I've seen enough of Millsap to where if we can get a starting SG for Carlos Boozer, it'd be a done deal for me.  I'm talking Kevin Martin, Manu Ginobili, Michael Redd, Joe Johnson, and Brandon Roy.  Perfect players for Utah, I wouldn't even think twice about any of those deals.  Players like Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, O.J. Mayo, I'd have to think twice and those teams would have to really sweeten the deal for obvious reasons.  I would NOT go for a Kevin Durant, Jamal Crawford, Randy Foye, Raymond Felton, Hedo Turkoglu type options, I think Boozer is worth more.  Ray Allen and Tracy McGrady are too old.  Then you have super-elites like Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade which no one sane would give up for Boozer but even so, those players would change your entire team dynamic which isn't necessarily a good thing.   

The other interesting options are trading for versatile, do-it-all players like Caron Butler or Danny Granger and inserting them at SG.  For those 2 specific players I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I could see how some would be squeamish. 

Bottom line, exploring these type of options would do Utah MUCH better than just letting him walk for nothing.       
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Offline Ted

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2008, 10:06:51 AM »
(I believe it was 3 Ted, I don't think he led the nation his freshman year) if you don't have a knack and a desire for the ball, especially being undersized.

You are correct. It was 3. Not sure what I was thinking.  ???
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Offline Reality

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2008, 10:38:24 AM »
I've seen enough of Millsap to where if we can get a starting SG for Carlos Boozer, it'd be a done deal for me.  I'm talking Manu Ginobili,.......
Hmmn Manu did grasp his surgical ankle again last night. ;)

All indications are Coatails Pop is gonna ride Duncan GNob and Parker till the wheels fall off.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2008, 11:02:33 AM »
I've seen enough of Millsap to where if we can get a starting SG for Carlos Boozer, it'd be a done deal for me.  I'm talking Manu Ginobili,.......
Hmmn Manu did grasp his surgical ankle again last night. ;)

All indications are Coatails Pop is gonna ride Duncan GNob and Parker till the wheels fall off.

DUH!!

 ;)
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Offline Reality

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2008, 11:15:10 AM »
^^ point being overuse them and either not obtain surrounding cast or leave the obtained support folks crusted on the bench.

But that's the perspective of those who want(ed) a repeat.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2008, 11:19:52 AM »
^^ point being overuse them and either not obtain surrounding cast or leave the obtained support folks crusted on the bench.

But that's the perspective of those who want(ed) a repeat.

 ::), you could not have wanted a repeat more then me Grinch-ality.  Our cast was not up to snuff last year, and Manu hit by bad ankle and torn off finger nail on shooting hand hurt us.  he tried to play through but it just wasn't our time.  Now you better be nice before Santa (Pop) puts some coal in your stocking.

On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2008, 11:53:34 AM »
^^ point being overuse them and either not obtain surrounding cast or leave the obtained support folks crusted on the bench.


Obviously your box score watching has slipped this year.  The Spurs only have 2 players averaging over 30 minutes and none averaging over 35.  Not to mention another 6 players averaging 20+ minutes.  Contrast this to the other contenders:

Lakers - 2 players 35+ minutes; 4 players 25+ minutes, everyone else less than 20 (deep bench right)
Hornets - 2 at 37+ minutes, 2 at 30+ minutes, 2 at 20+, rest below 20
Celtics - 2 at 35+, 2 at 30+, 1 at 25+, rest below 20 (another deep bench?)
Cavs - 1 at 35+, 2 at 30+, 4 at 24+, rest below 20

So right now the Lakers & Hornets are basically going 6 deep, the Celtics are riding their starters and the Cavs are using 7 players. 

You can also explore the other end of the bench...

Spurs - 13 players with 14 or more games with no one averaging less than 10 minutes.  (2 NBDL signees playing 3 games each).
Lakers - 9 players with 25+ games, Walton with 20 games at 11 minutes per, 4 others with cameo appearances.
Hornets - 10 players with 15+ games with 1 averaging 8.7 minutes, 5 others with spotty appearances (side note Antonio Daniels since the trade is averaging only 11 minutes - big contributor).
Celtics - Only 13 players have played and 4 average less than 10 minutes a game.
Cavs - 10 players with 20+ games and 1 plays less than 8 minutes, 4 others with minor appearances.

As I have said before, Pop uses Nov & Dec to experiment with different lineups at different times of the game.  He will let the second unit run for longer periods than other coaches.



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Offline Reality

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2008, 01:01:54 PM »
Yawn.
You use overall averages.
Guess what.  If Tony Parker plays 55 minutes one game, and the very next he plays *only* 25 minutes because he blows his ankle out, a dumbass like you would reason "hey Reality, Parker only averaged 40 minutes per game, what are you complaining about."

Have you really ever attended a Spurs game?

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2008, 01:08:07 PM »
Reality, have YOU ever been to a real Spurs game?? 
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Reality

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2008, 01:19:45 PM »
4Xs

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Bye Bye Boozer?
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2008, 02:00:14 PM »
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.