Lakers become Sacramento road kill!

[westkoast]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

[WayOutWest]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

Is LeBron playing defense this year?

[Lurker]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

I know it is morning in Texas and the coffee is still doing it's magic but this looks like a Reality answer.  Totally off point to the question.  What does 2003 and LeBron have to do with a question about the Lakers "soft" defense?

[Lurker]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

Is LeBron playing defense this year?

A lot more than Kobe fans would like to give him credit for.

[WayOutWest]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

I know it is morning in Texas and the coffee is still doing it's magic but this looks like a Reality answer.  Totally off point to the question.  What does 2003 and LeBron have to do with a question about the Lakers "soft" defense?

What I got from the wk's response was the current Lakers look like the 2003 Lakers.  They look like they are "backing" into the season and possibly the playoffs.

Someone brought the LeBron is better than Kobe reference somewhere.  IMO LeBron is possibly the best offensive back court player ever, better than MJ and Kobe and will probably surpass Magic before it's all said and done.  But like the Magic vs MJ battles of "long ago" MJ was better overall because of his defense, same goes with LeBron vs Kobe.

[Lurker]

What I got from the wk's response was the current Lakers look like the 2003 Lakers.  They look like they are "backing" into the season and possibly the playoffs.

Ok.  As long as the 2010 championship ends up in the same place as tthe 2003 one then I have no problems.   

Someone brought the LeBron is better than Kobe reference somewhere.  IMO LeBron is possibly the best offensive back court player ever, better than MJ and Kobe and will probably surpass Magic before it's all said and done.  But like the Magic vs MJ battles of "long ago" MJ was better overall because of his defense, same goes with LeBron vs Kobe.

JoMal did that and even said it was in jest.  jemagee went no where near that topic so IMO it comes off as quite a bit defensive about your team/star. (not that I haven't gone there before)   

[WayOutWest]

Ok.  As long as the 2010 championship ends up in the same place as tthe 2003 one then I have no problems.   

Wow, you've already conceeded the 2009 title?  You're a bigger fan of the Lakers than I thought....either that or you've jumped on to the Cavs/Boston bandwagon..... 

JoMal did that and even said it was in jest.  jemagee went no where near that topic so IMO it comes off as quite a bit defensive about your team/star. (not that I haven't gone there before)   

You have to understand that wk and I are like Lakers/Kobe Marines...firsts ones in; last ones out...big brutes and no brains.....wait....I meant "The few, the proud"....yea...that's more like it....

[westkoast]

Not exactly a convincing win, at home, against a short handed suns team (only 9 available players but they run a short rotation usually don't they?)...are laker fans becoming concerned that this defensive softness is not temporary but systemic to the lakers?

Hi jemagee, my name is 2003, it is nice to meet you 

As soon as Lebron wins a championship we can talk about him surpassing Kobe.  Until then I think he needs a few more years under his belt to surpass him.  I do see him doing that if he continues on this pace, he just is not there yet.  Being a main part of 3 championship runs needs to amount to something more than scoring a lot of points or running off 10 wins in a row.  I know it was bait JoMal but I think it was worth addressing in a somewhat serious way.

I know it is morning in Texas and the coffee is still doing it's magic but this looks like a Reality answer.  Totally off point to the question.  What does 2003 and LeBron have to do with a question about the Lakers "soft" defense?

Lurker normally when two thoughts are seperate from each other you add spacing.  Which is what I did.  The 2003 comment was in regards to the Lakers defense.  It has been spotty for years now.  We've gone from seeing flashes of brilliant defense and a whole lot of lack luster efforts.  We've almost become use to the fact that words 'Lakers' and 'defense' don't go together for long periods of time.  Even in our earlier championship runs of this decade this was discussed.  So when Jemagee asked if we are worried that this team is unable to play defense  I responded by saying 'hi my name is 2003' because we've already come to terms with it.  We actually thought at the start of this season it would change but they did what they have always done, play uninspired defense for long stretches of time.  See Lurker this is part of the reason sometimes it comes off as I am a Spurs fan.  They play the type of defense I wish the Lakers would play so I enjoy following the team when I can.  The Lakers don't play consistent defense for 48 minutes for 80+ games. 

I also think Lebron is getting a little bit more credit for doing everything when he is not the only person contributing.  This team has improved and so has its players.  A number of these guys have improved their games since the last time they went to the finals and adding guys like Mo Williams seems to help a great deal.

Again, I think if Lebron continues on this pace he will pass Kobe in talent but to say that right now because he is on a 10 game winning streak?  Like I said, I think being a key part of 3 NBA titles holds a lot more weight than what Lebron has done thus far.  That's not a knock on Lebron.  He just hasn't been in the league as long so he hasn't had his chances.

[JoMal]

wk, based on their respective squads during their formative years, LeBron is more like MJ then like Kobe, because during the Lakers' championship run, Kobe was overshadowed by Shaq. THIS Laker squad, where he is THE GUY, is more of a comparison - and gee, he has not won a championship yet on his own either. MJ took, I believe, six years to win a championship and only after he got help, so LeBron getting help is no arguement one way or the other. Same with Kobe's current team.

So it is very fair to judge them on what they have accomplished so far - on their own. Of late, it just seems like LeBron is playing with children on the court. No one in the League matches up with his combination of size, strength, and speed. not to mention his basketball skills. While they both can defer to teammates more this year, it is clear from my perspective that LeBron can turn on that deferment at will, while Kobe sometimes needs to just back off from shooting his team out of games, which he did in SacTown to a degree and almost did again against the Suns. LeBron gets many fourth quarters off because of his stellar work in the first three, and his supporting cast appreciates the challenge of maintaining late leads, while Kobe usually has to stay on the court to either get the lead back or maintain slim leads.

Sounds like one of these guys has a bit of a defensive problem that the other one doesn't. WOW asked how LeBron was doing on defense? If you are blowing away teams in the fourth so your star player can sit it out, I would say that can not be just due to your offense.

[jemagee]

Um - so - no ones worried about the lakers defense?

[msc]

Um - so - no ones worried about the lakers defense?

I am! 

The frustrating thing is that they've shown the ability to play team defense.  Not just in 12 minute spurts like last season, but this season they actually came out of the gate playing very solid D the first 7 or 8 games and it's just kind of faded since then.  That to me shows a lack of focus and mental toughness, which is something the Celtics have clearly shown all of last season and obviously continuing through this season. 

Whoever made the comment earlier in the thread (WOW, I think) that the Lakers let their offense dictate their defense rather than the other way around, which is how it should be, hit the nail square on the head. 

The season is still young and hopefully they can sharpen their defensive focus as it goes on.  I hate to say this, but recently I've kind of wanted them to get their butts kicked to knock them off their high horse.  I think they're all guilty of reading their own press clippings and believing the hype and forgetting that it takes more than just showing up to win night in and night out.

[Lurker]

Um - so - no ones worried about the lakers defense?

NO!  Because the God-like Kobe will walk on the heads of the little people who populate the other teams in the NBA and lead through his overwhelming offensive skills the chosen few to the promised land of bling-bling.

[westkoast]

wk, based on their respective squads during their formative years, LeBron is more like MJ then like Kobe, because during the Lakers' championship run, Kobe was overshadowed by Shaq. THIS Laker squad, where he is THE GUY, is more of a comparison - and gee, he has not won a championship yet on his own either. MJ took, I believe, six years to win a championship and only after he got help, so LeBron getting help is no arguement one way or the other. Same with Kobe's current team.

The difference is MJ did win.  Lebron has yet to do it.  So while he is in the same situation he hasn't won anything.  He hasn't had help so I am not saying his entire career is tarnished, he will get his chance to win.  I am def not holding it against him but I also am not ignoring what Kobe did.   While you are right he was over shadowed by Shaq let's not pretend like he was not the #1 option in many playoff games and was a MAJOR contributor.  Let's not reduce him to Rick Fox status or Glen Rice status.  He won a large number of playoff games.  In fact Shaq and Kobe kind of switched off.  Kobe was the man on the road and Shaq was the man at home.  Do you remember when the Lakers went 16-1 in the playoffs?  That year Kobe has torching teams on the road, Shaq at home.  Lebron has not won a title or been on a championship team in any capacity.  Kobe was a MAJOR contributor to three. So regardless if Shaq was there or not there is a clear difference between the two.   You can't ignore that just because another player was there.  You wouldn't do that to Paul Pierce but you would do it to Kobe.  Obviously there is a HUGE bias towards him on your side but let's try for once for you to ignore that.

I don't see how dominating a league for 3 years as the #2 guy (and during the regular season and playoffs sometimes #1) is ignored as if it doesn't mean much.  A 10 game winning streak means more than that?  Come on. 

So it is very fair to judge them on what they have accomplished so far - on their own.

No, that is not fair at all.  You can't ignore what Kobe did on the championship team just because Shaq was there.    What about the Indian Pacers finals in game 6 when Shaq was gone on the bench and he won the game?  Shaq wasn't there to win the game.  Kobe did it.  Is that acceptable based on your criteria?    Shaq didn't do everything for Kobe and Kobe made Shaq's life easier.  He benefitted from Kobe as well.  Why is it that you talk like Shaq only helped Kobe and not vice versa?  I think after Shaq parted and Kobe continued to do what he did with out him proved that it wasn't just Shaq who made Kobe.  If that was the case he would tank majorily.  He has not.  Shaq did not win every single game for the Lakers contrary to how you want to re-write history.  Any person who watches the Lakers often will back up everything I am saying.

And even if we wanted to run with this funny idea....Both Kobe and Lebron have got to the finals and lost.  How has Lebron surpassed him?  Because he had less to work with?  He also played lesser teams.  The team that SPANKED the Cavs the year before is the same team that lost to the Lakers in 5.  While the Lakers had more talent (obviously) my point is they went through 3 50+ win teams to get to the finals. 

Of late, it just seems like LeBron is playing with children on the court. No one in the League matches up with his combination of size, strength, and speed.

Kobe has been doing this for 4 years Jomal.  Maybe your memory is slipping up here.  He has clearly been toying with teams for YEARS now.  There is no one in the league that has matched up with him in combination of drive, basketball iq, speed, clutch, and scoring ability.  Lebron is getting up there now.  Kobe has been there for a while now.  You may not think this but everyone else in the league has said the same thing.  Including Lebron James himself.

LeBron gets many fourth quarters off because of his stellar work in the first three, and his supporting cast appreciates the challenge of maintaining late leads, while Kobe usually has to stay on the court to either get the lead back or maintain slim leads.

This is an example of why I make my 'crystal ball' comments to you.  You clearly don't watch Laker games.  This proves that.  Kobe is playing 10 less minutes a game because......? The Lakers have been blowing out teams up until the last 4.  They have a +12 winning point margin.  There have been 8-9 games where he played less than 2 minutes in the 4th quarter.  

Sounds like one of these guys has a bit of a defensive problem that the other one doesn't. WOW asked how LeBron was doing on defense? If you are blowing away teams in the fourth so your star player can sit it out, I would say that can not be just due to your offense.

Really?  I think the PHX Suns of years past disagree with you.

[Reality]

Um - so - no ones worried about the lakers defense?

I am! 

The frustrating thing is that they've shown the ability to play team defense.  Not just in 12 minute spurts like last season, but this season they actually came out of the gate playing very solid D the first 7 or 8 games and it's just kind of faded since then.  That to me shows a lack of focus and mental toughness, which is something the Celtics have clearly shown all of last season and obviously continuing through this season. 

Whoever made the comment earlier in the thread (WOW, I think) that the Lakers let their offense dictate their defense rather than the other way around, which is how it should be, hit the nail square on the head. 

The season is still young and hopefully they can sharpen their defensive focus as it goes on.  I hate to say this, but recently I've kind of wanted them to get their butts kicked to knock them off their high horse.  I think they're all guilty of reading their own press clippings and believing the hype and forgetting that it takes more than just showing up to win night in and night out.

I will accept an *X-Mass* present of Lakers vs Celtics ticket(s) on Dec 25th......

[westkoast]

Btw....I am concerned about the defense as well.  It is the reason we didn't hoist the trophy last year.  Just saying that we've come to terms with the fact this team struggles (and has forever) on the defensive end.