Author Topic: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!  (Read 12822 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« on: December 10, 2008, 01:39:50 AM »
The Kings really worked the Lakers 2nite.  I wonder if that means Theus's job is safe for the time being.  Everyone is talking about Theus being on the chopping block, I wonder if this gives him more time to do something with his INJURED team.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2008, 11:52:33 AM »
Well.....at least that kills the talk of the Lakers going 79-2.

Does Kobe always get whinny when he gets frustrated late in games? He trashed the refs every time he went into the lane last night.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2008, 11:56:23 AM »
and early, and middle, and middle late, and....

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2008, 11:57:24 AM »
And how is that different from almost every star in the NBA - Tim Duncan, big whiner, allen iverosn, big whiner, whining is part of the game...

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 12:20:29 PM »
Well.....at least that kills the talk of the Lakers going 79-2.

Does Kobe always get whinny when he gets frustrated late in games? He trashed the refs every time he went into the lane last night.

Kobe whines a lot, but so does every player in the league.  The problem I have with Kobe in that situation is that he feels he needs to assert himself after percieved bad or no call.  When he asserts himself he usually gets his way BUT it's at the expense of team offense and offensive flow.  He has got a lot better about it though, he's more willing to get a team mate a good shot when he draws a lot of defenders.  In the past when he felt he needed to get a make up call he would take it 1 on 5 regardless of whether a team mate was wide open or not.  Now he'll find a team mate now and then but for the most part he'll try and score no matter what after a whinning incident.

Right now the Lakers don't have a strong non-whinner, in the past the Lakers had guys like AC Green or James Worthy that did not whine on a regular basis, right now they have a Hall of Fame group of whinners in Kobe/Gasol/Sasha.  Odom for the most part is pretty drama free compared to the rest of the Lakers.  There are not too many non-whinners in the league right now, back in the day Bird was a big time non-whinner, which was still not enough to offset the uber-whinner McHale, DRob I think was a non-whinner, Joe Dumars.  I'm trying to think of a non-whinner in the league right now......Prince?  Kidd? Hmmm...tough one....
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 12:21:56 PM »
My problem is Andre Iguodala whining all the time, cause really Andre, you aren't getting that call anyway if it even exists and you have enough problems - though in his defense he did learn from the 'master' of the whine - Mr Allen Iverson

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 12:24:55 PM »
And how is that different from almost every star in the NBA - Tim Duncan, big whiner, allen iverosn, big whiner, whining is part of the game...

True....but does it really accomplish anything?

Brad Miller and Beno Udruh do it consistently too and at times while the game has moved on to the other end of the court and is still active. Seems like a total waste of time and hardly ever convinces a ref to suddenly blow his whistle, while it tends to distract the refs from watching what else is happening at the time, and often THAT is where a foul is occurring.

I noticed Kobe doing it last night while he was trying to make his shot, sometimes. And usually with minimum or no contact worth complaining about.

Strange "game within a game" action.

This game was fun to watch as a King's fan because it showcased where the Kings want the team to go. Having a truckload of youngsters on a squad can be daunting at times, but at least guys like Hawes, Brown, and Greene show us what type of players we can expect them to be once they get past their 'youth' stage. Thompson has already done enough to showcase his case.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 12:27:16 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 12:26:25 PM »
Quote
True....but does it really accomplish anything?

I believe it can yes - I believe it can make certain refs pay more attention if the 'whine' is made properly and politely - and i think yes most players do it way too much but it's just reality now - and most players ARE fouled on every shot pretty much - but if refs called every foul games would go forever and half of each squad would foul out (if fouls were called as written)

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 12:30:49 PM »
Well.....at least that kills the talk of the Lakers going 79-2.

Does Kobe always get whinny when he gets frustrated late in games? He trashed the refs every time he went into the lane last night.

Kobe whines a lot, but so does every player in the league.  The problem I have with Kobe in that situation is that he feels he needs to assert himself after percieved bad or no call.  When he asserts himself he usually gets his way BUT it's at the expense of team offense and offensive flow.  He has got a lot better about it though, he's more willing to get a team mate a good shot when he draws a lot of defenders.  In the past when he felt he needed to get a make up call he would take it 1 on 5 regardless of whether a team mate was wide open or not.  Now he'll find a team mate now and then but for the most part he'll try and score no matter what after a whinning incident.

Right now the Lakers don't have a strong non-whinner, in the past the Lakers had guys like AC Green or James Worthy that did not whine on a regular basis, right now they have a Hall of Fame group of whinners in Kobe/Gasol/Sasha.  Odom for the most part is pretty drama free compared to the rest of the Lakers.  There are not too many non-whinners in the league right now, back in the day Bird was a big time non-whinner, which was still not enough to offset the uber-whinner McHale, DRob I think was a non-whinner, Joe Dumars.  I'm trying to think of a non-whinner in the league right now......Prince?  Kidd? Hmmm...tough one....

LeBron seems to not let so-called non-fouls interupt his game or his work with his teammates. At least from the limited times I have seen him play a full game. Mainly he never stops to discuss it, like Beno Udruh did about three weeks ago as his man ran past him and on for a lay-up. We pay these guys for this?
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 12:31:59 PM »
Quote
True....but does it really accomplish anything?

I believe it can yes - I believe it can make certain refs pay more attention if the 'whine' is made properly and politely - and i think yes most players do it way too much but it's just reality now - and most players ARE fouled on every shot pretty much - but if refs called every foul games would go forever and half of each squad would foul out (if fouls were called as written)

And I wonder if it sometimes works against players. A consistent whiner could be targeted by a fed up ref just as easily.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 12:32:54 PM »
Interesting how in todays paper there was an article about how the cavs were talkinga bout that very same thing at half time of last nights game - letting the technicals get in the way - and how lebron has 3 T's in the last week...

so maybe he whines a bit more?

Also - it's easier to not whine when you're winning by such large margins and can sit the fourth quarter.

The celtics are getting a rep for trash talking thuggery so far this season and KG seems to continue to pick on smaller guys at point as is his rep

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 12:33:34 PM »
Quote
True....but does it really accomplish anything?

I believe it can yes - I believe it can make certain refs pay more attention if the 'whine' is made properly and politely - and i think yes most players do it way too much but it's just reality now - and most players ARE fouled on every shot pretty much - but if refs called every foul games would go forever and half of each squad would foul out (if fouls were called as written)

And I wonder if it sometimes works against players. A consistent whiner could be targeted by a fed up ref just as easily.

It probably does - but Allen Iverson was probably the lead whiner while he was in Philadlephia (in the league) and averaged one of the highest, possibly highest, FT attempts per game as well...


Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 01:15:28 PM »
Quote
True....but does it really accomplish anything?

I believe it can yes - I believe it can make certain refs pay more attention if the 'whine' is made properly and politely - and i think yes most players do it way too much but it's just reality now - and most players ARE fouled on every shot pretty much - but if refs called every foul games would go forever and half of each squad would foul out (if fouls were called as written)

And I wonder if it sometimes works against players. A consistent whiner could be targeted by a fed up ref just as easily.

It probably does - but Allen Iverson was probably the lead whiner while he was in Philadlephia (in the league) and averaged one of the highest, possibly highest, FT attempts per game as well...



That had more to do with Iverson holding the ball on offense 99.9 percent of the time.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 01:18:27 PM »
Probably also helped that he's not much taller than the mayor of munchkin land - and pretty darn skinny too - but i think the whining helped - cold be wrong - probably no real way to quantify it though

Certain refs seems to have grudges (Steve Javie)

Offline msc

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Re: Lakers become Sacramento road kill!
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 01:43:05 PM »
I agree on the whining front esp. with Kobe and Sasha, but don't forget Bynum.  He seems to be whining after every perceived non-call, which is a disturbing trend for a young guy.

I get why Kobe does it and I almost think he has to in order to raise attention from the refs.  I don't like it, but I understand it.  Magic did it, Bird did it, Jordan perfected it.  Leaders on teams, who are also typically their teams leading scorers, often take it upon themselves to complain to the refs if they feel their missing calls.  I'd like to say they shouldn't do this, but it usually works, so I can't blame them for doing it.  How many times have we all witnessed when Kobe, or Jordan, or Iverson complains about a no call and they get a make-up call next time down the court?  Happens all the freaking time.  JoMal raises a good point in that this can backfire, and Javie is the perfect example, but more often then not it seems to work.   

I can't take anything away from Sac as they flat outplayed the Lakers last night.  That said, this was one of those games that I could tell right away the Lakers were going to lose.  The most disturbing thing to me wasn't the Lakers lack of defense.  Unfortunately, I'm used to that now.  What drove me nuts was their absolute refusal to run the offense.  This is actually the second game in a row of this trend, Milwaukee was just too horrible to capitalize on it.  They didn't run the triangle at all last night and it's everyone's fault, but Kobe, as the leader was the worst offender.  It's almost like he fell in to the "Salmons can't guard me, I'll show them" trap.  He just continually forced up bad shot after bad shot and it never allowed the Lakers to establish a rhythm in their triangle offense.  And how does the coaching staff not address this at every possible moment within the game.  Call a timeout and address it, yell at them from the sideline, put in a fresh set of 5 guys who will run the triangle.  I don't get it.