The Ol' Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan Debate

[WayOutWest]

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The Ol' Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan Debate

December 9, 2008 1:04 PM

Who's better, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference.com navigated numbers like points produced per 100 possessions used, the percentage of team possessions used when on the court, points allowed per 100 opponent possessions, and "the Pythagorean expectation."

Paine shows a nice big chart, and then concludes:

As you can see, out of necessity Jordan was taking on a large offensive responsibility early in his career; as his teammates got better, he slowly eased back on the workload, and his efficiency improved as a result. Kobe's story is the opposite: with great teammates early, he didn't have to do as much, but when Shaq left before the '05 season, Kobe was actually forced to take a larger role in the offense than even Jordan ever had to.

It's more interesting, though, to look at the efficiency levels the players maintained vs. their % of possessions used. The mark of a truly great offensive player is to maintain a high level of efficiency while taking on a large share of the team's offensive responsibility, and even though Kobe's numbers are impressive, Jordan is consistently more efficient than Bryant no matter if he's using more possessions or not. Also, note the translated defensive ratings: aside from their age-21 seasons, MJ is better (sometimes vastly so) at every turn.

In other words -- and this should be obvious -- when we watch Kobe play, we're seeing a far lesser version of Michael Jordan in action. Similar in style and mannerism, maybe, but when we translate the statistics for era, it becomes very clear that Jordan was actually the one "playing chess" while Bryant "plays checkers."
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I don't think you need to be a match genius to know MJ was better than Kobe.  IMO Kobe is a more versatile scorer but MJ was more effective.  Same as the Kareem vs Walton UCLA argument, Walton was clearly more versatile in every basketball skill but Kareem was more effective because of his length and the "skyhook".

IMO neither guy could guard the other in plain old basketball but MJ was clearly the superior NBA player.

[ziggy]

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The Ol' Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan Debate

December 9, 2008 1:04 PM

Who's better, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant? Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference.com navigated numbers like points produced per 100 possessions used, the percentage of team possessions used when on the court, points allowed per 100 opponent possessions, and "the Pythagorean expectation."

Paine shows a nice big chart, and then concludes:

As you can see, out of necessity Jordan was taking on a large offensive responsibility early in his career; as his teammates got better, he slowly eased back on the workload, and his efficiency improved as a result. Kobe's story is the opposite: with great teammates early, he didn't have to do as much, but when Shaq left before the '05 season, Kobe was actually forced to take a larger role in the offense than even Jordan ever had to.

It's more interesting, though, to look at the efficiency levels the players maintained vs. their % of possessions used. The mark of a truly great offensive player is to maintain a high level of efficiency while taking on a large share of the team's offensive responsibility, and even though Kobe's numbers are impressive, Jordan is consistently more efficient than Bryant no matter if he's using more possessions or not. Also, note the translated defensive ratings: aside from their age-21 seasons, MJ is better (sometimes vastly so) at every turn.

In other words -- and this should be obvious -- when we watch Kobe play, we're seeing a far lesser version of Michael Jordan in action. Similar in style and mannerism, maybe, but when we translate the statistics for era, it becomes very clear that Jordan was actually the one "playing chess" while Bryant "plays checkers."
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I don't think you need to be a match genius to know MJ was better than Kobe.  IMO Kobe is a more versatile scorer but MJ was more effective.  Same as the Kareem vs Walton UCLA argument, Walton was clearly more versatile in every basketball skill but Kareem was more effective because of his length and the "skyhook".

IMO neither guy could guard the other in plain old basketball but MJ was clearly the superior NBA player.

Holy crap did you all feel that sharp jerk where you are???  I think the earth just stopped turning on its axis.

[westkoast]

Another way to look at it is.....

Would Kobe win if you swapped him out with Jordan in their primes?  I would say yes.  The Bulls team had a lot of talent and were a well oiled machine.  If you take the Kobe you see now and stick him in that system I think you see a very successful team.

Would Jordan win with any of Kobe's teams in present day? Now that is a whole new thread!  If he had Pau Gasol? 82-0 If he had Kwame Brown?  Well we might be able to assume how their relationship might go.....

[WayOutWest]

Another way to look at it is.....

Would Kobe win if you swapped him out with Jordan in their primes?  I would say yes.  The Bulls team had a lot of talent and were a well oiled machine.  If you take the Kobe you see now and stick him in that system I think you see a very successful team.

Would Jordan win with any of Kobe's teams in present day? Now that is a whole new thread!  If he had Pau Gasol? 82-0 If he had Kwame Brown?  Well we might be able to assume how their relationship might go.....

IMO MJ would NOT have let the Suns off the hook holding a 3-1 lead in the playoffs.  IMO while Kobe is a more versatile scorer he does not have the post up game that MJ developed after his 1st retirement.  Also MJ took defense a little more personally than Kobe does.  Kobe is a "situational stopper" on defense, MJ did his thing for an entire game.  There are guys that cannot be guarded, like AI and Magic, but guys that could be stopped were for the most part stopped by MJ, Kobe does not shut down guys that he should be able to shut down.  I did not expect stellar defense from Kobe when he had to carry the majority of the scoring load but now that he's got a pretty talented group of players I expected a bit better defense from him.