Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA

[westkoast]

Jomal, what is your take on the high speed rail passing?

I voted No because we don't have money.  Someone I was talking to about it earlier (my co-worker on the road with me) that he agrees we don't have the money but feels that the wealthy in this state are going to sit on their cash for the next few years.  His argument is that we need to get into the red more than we are to start boosting new jobs.

While I voted No I am not it passed *IF* I am able to travel in the state with out flying.  It takes longer for me to get through security at John Wayne airport then it does to actually fly.

I completely agree with the concept of high speed rail. In a state as large as California, it makes perfect sense. But I also voted against it because of the cost. Not sure what your co-worker was referring to by saying we needed to get more in the red. Any more red and we are going to be bleeding into the Pacific.

He was saying that we need to go into the red on this one to improve how our residents move AND to create jobs.  What he meant was the rich are not going to spend money to create jobs at the same rate our state's government can with measures like this.

Soon you'll be able to attend Laker games after work by taking the high speed train.  How excited are you?

[jemagee]

He was saying that we need to go into the red on this one to improve how our residents move AND to create jobs.  What he meant was the rich are not going to spend money to create jobs at the same rate our state's government can with measures like this.

But what types of jobs - and for how long - and at what cost - i think it's a cutting nose to spite face idea...aren't there ways for the government to 'partner' with the rich to encourage them to spend money to create jobs so the state doesn't go more into the red?

Figure out ways for hollywood to stop going to canada so damn much - get em to stay local more often - go to that town from the silicon boys - work with them - there are some very smart very rich folks in that town

I don't agree with your coworkers theory cause the costs (and over runs and bureacracy that are inevitable) will outweight the benefit of the created jobs most likely

[westkoast]

But what types of jobs - and for how long - and at what cost - i think it's a cutting nose to spite face idea...aren't there ways for the government to 'partner' with the rich to encourage them to spend money to create jobs so the state doesn't go more into the red?

In this case? Construction jobs, administrative jobs, planning jobs, etc.  I am sure the engineering aspect is going to be sent to a Bechtel or one of those large engineering consulting firms.

As far as doing a partnership with the rich...I couldn't tell you.

I don't agree with your coworkers theory cause the costs (and over runs and bureacracy that are inevitable) will outweight the benefit of the created jobs most likely

Not really.  While I don't agree with him fully I don't agree with you either.  The jobs benefit us because there will be work for one and the end result is a better way to move people in this state.

[jemagee]

But many of the jobs aren't 'permanent' type jobs - i mean they'll be around for a couple of years but once the project is done - many of the jobs are gone...maybe new jobs are created but for a different 'job pool' and all the people involved in the construction portion, many of them are out of work again?

Oh yeah - no cell phones for train engineers - right?

[JoMal]

Jomal, what is your take on the high speed rail passing?

I voted No because we don't have money.  Someone I was talking to about it earlier (my co-worker on the road with me) that he agrees we don't have the money but feels that the wealthy in this state are going to sit on their cash for the next few years.  His argument is that we need to get into the red more than we are to start boosting new jobs.

While I voted No I am not it passed *IF* I am able to travel in the state with out flying.  It takes longer for me to get through security at John Wayne airport then it does to actually fly.

I completely agree with the concept of high speed rail. In a state as large as California, it makes perfect sense. But I also voted against it because of the cost. Not sure what your co-worker was referring to by saying we needed to get more in the red. Any more red and we are going to be bleeding into the Pacific.

He was saying that we need to go into the red on this one to improve how our residents move AND to create jobs.  What he meant was the rich are not going to spend money to create jobs at the same rate our state's government can with measures like this.

Soon you'll be able to attend Laker games after work by taking the high speed train.  How excited are you?

OOOOH......the eau'd uunnderware whafting up from my stained chair tells the story.

[JoMal]

But many of the jobs aren't 'permanent' type jobs - i mean they'll be around for a couple of years but once the project is done - many of the jobs are gone...maybe new jobs are created but for a different 'job pool' and all the people involved in the construction portion, many of them are out of work again?

Oh yeah - no cell phones for train engineers - right?

Work for a couple of years? The time it will take to put a high speed rail in will probably exceed the lifespans of most of the current posters.

ME, for instance.

[jemagee]

I'm confused, as i understand it you were around before the big bang, the endless live forever don't they.

I forgot - the concept of 3 8 hour shifts to get crap done in a timely manner is a foreign idea out here - bummer

[westkoast]

I'm confused, as i understand it you were around before the big bang, the endless live forever don't they.

I forgot - the concept of 3 8 hour shifts to get crap done in a timely manner is a foreign idea out here - bummer

Well...the connection from SF to SD won't be completed until 2020 *IF* everything goes as planned, which it probably wont heh

10-12 years worth of work is a lot of work IMO.  The calculation is 165,000 jobs I believe.

[jemagee]

Holy crap - honestly i know nothing about construction - but in the day and age of all this modern technology and crap should it really take that long?

[westkoast]

Holy crap - honestly i know nothing about construction - but in the day and age of all this modern technology and crap should it really take that long?

Well they have to go through mountains, lay track, level areas to put the tracks on, etc.

From an engineering stand point its a BEAST but to actually build it is a whole different story.

[jemagee]

This is why we need robots damn it

California should work with the rich people to develop better more intelligent robots

[Joe Vancil]

"Partner with the rich?"

Let's assume I'm rich.  You want to partner with me?  WHY?

"Because you have the money."

Okay.  And I get what benefit out of this?

The train will do everyone good.

So everyone is going to pay for it, then, right?

Somebody has to get the ball rolling.

So what are you offering me to be that somebody?  My taxes are liable to go up under the current Democratic administration.  My small/medium/large sized businesses are due for tax increases.  My investments have gone to crap along with the stock market.  Look - *MY* money isn't growing;  it's shrinking.  You're asking me to shrink it faster.  You've got to give me a reason to do it.

Think of what you owe the community.

The ones who gripe about the jobs I provide?  Or the ones who say I'm just in it for myself?  Or maybe the ones who defaulted on their loans, making it harder for me to get money to build new companies?  They turn around and say I'm the ultimate evil.  Why do I want to help them?  What's the point of helping someone when you're already destined to be the villain?


(this is me again)

Sorry.  I used to believe in the good will of people, but that stopped years ago.  Most people are motivated only by their own self interest, and after a while, you expect that ONLY their own self interest will motivate them.  I'm not willing to take it that far just yet, but I most definitely intend to save my "best effort" for the GRATEFUL.  And when I'm taking that approach, what right have I to cast stones at someone who has already reached the point of "I'll look out for me and mine"?

[jemagee]

I"m sorry if you thought i said 'partner with the rich on trains' - but that's not what i said or what i meant to say - encourage the rich to start businesses for their own profit and increased richness with tax breaks, good loans, whatever it takes, and thus create more jobs without having to dig a giant deficit hole - i was talking in eneral - not just the trains

But that is why i asked about the japanese high speed rail system

[westkoast]

I"m sorry if you thought i said 'partner with the rich on trains' - but that's not what i said or what i meant to say - encourage the rich to start businesses for their own profit and increased richness with tax breaks, good loans, whatever it takes, and thus create more jobs without having to dig a giant deficit hole - i was talking in eneral - not just the trains

But that is why i asked about the japanese high speed rail system

It's very tough to do in a state that has the highest taxes in the country and plenty of laws smacking down businesses that produce waste.....

[jemagee]

It's very tough to do in a state that has the highest taxes in the country and plenty of laws smacking down businesses that produce waste.....

Encourage the rich to start green companies that will reduce the waste and give them tax breaks for taking on such an endeavor that can be profitable AND good for the envirnoment?  I'm not talking HUGE amounts of investment - just a little pilot program.

Entrepeneurs don't stop being entrepeneurs usually - they look for the next challenge - any of those silicon boys sitting on their money might be intrigued by the idea - i'm just spit balling here - if the state is worried about guys 'sitting on money' find ways to encourage them to risk some of it to make more.