Author Topic: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA  (Read 7541 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« on: November 06, 2008, 01:36:54 AM »
A few skermishes with police are on TV in LA.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline westkoast

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2008, 01:29:55 PM »
Which side?  The for or against?

I've heard people mention that they want to bring this back up again and have another vote?  Everyone knows my stance on it, I am NO on 8 all the way but if the people spoke, the people spoke. 
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 01:33:14 PM »
Quote
I've heard people mention that they want to bring this back up again and have another vote?  Everyone knows my stance on it, I am NO on 8 all the way but if the people spoke, the people spoke.

Don't we elect officials to pass laws to 'speak' for the people?

I hate the concept of referendums - the 'people' aren't as informed as they need to be nor have the resources to research - there are legislators - why the hell isn't this their job?

Offline westkoast

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 01:38:03 PM »
Quote
I've heard people mention that they want to bring this back up again and have another vote?  Everyone knows my stance on it, I am NO on 8 all the way but if the people spoke, the people spoke.

Don't we elect officials to pass laws to 'speak' for the people?

I hate the concept of referendums - the 'people' aren't as informed as they need to be nor have the resources to research - there are legislators - why the hell isn't this their job?

The politicians don't always do a good job either....I don't know if that is the answer.  Though I totally agree with the point you are making.

In all honesty I wish we could ban those stupid PROP commercials because they muddy up the water, on both sides, way too much.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 01:41:41 PM »
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In all honesty I wish we could ban those stupid PROP commercials because they muddy up the water, on both sides, way too much.

I think adjustment to the props should be made so that the FUNDING for the ads comes ONLY from within california...outside influences shouldn't be on either side of a state proposition...the prop commercials work because people are uninformed and just go by what they see on commercials - but seriously - that's not just on the prop thing - congress, president, governor, whatever, most people are going to make their decisions based on commercials (if they aren't just straight 'party line' voters)

Offline JoMal

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 01:52:31 PM »
These points are all you really need to know about the proposition issue in California.

1. These are almost always put on the ballot by special interests groups to benefit them, but hedge the language so they appear to say something different.

2. While the legislature has its own issues to deal with (primarily term limits, which I believe came from another proposition and has caused most of the stagnation in the legislature), propositions do NOT get vetted by the review process. They go into affect without consequences being fully analyzed.

3. Any proposition that costs money to implement, and most have well-hidden costs besides the stated costs, the money to pay for them comes right out of other state services funded by the General Fund, including bonds that have to be paid back over time. So vote for that high speed rail, farm animal rights, children hospital and veteran loans. If they cost money, then education will be cut, police forces will be cut, water and sewer services will be reduced, and fees will need to go up.

4. We are already facing another 11 billion deficit in the current budget year. This means there is no money - none - nada - zilch - beyond negative - to pay for any new bonds to cover the propositions that just passed. Nothing at all.

5. State workers are going to get one day a month furloughed and two state holidays taken away for the next 17-18 months, so our contribution to the economy, including taxes to pay for these new funding requirements, are going way, way down. We will not be buying much and therefore not contributing to sales taxes or other services that might help boost the economy, but that logic seems to escape the powers that be.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 01:56:01 PM »
Well

Logic and government sadly no longer go hand in hand

And don't get me started on term limits - the governmental equivalent of salary caps - protecting the voters from their own stupidity

Offline westkoast

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2008, 02:05:58 PM »
Jomal, what is your take on the high speed rail passing?

I voted No because we don't have money.  Someone I was talking to about it earlier (my co-worker on the road with me) that he agrees we don't have the money but feels that the wealthy in this state are going to sit on their cash for the next few years.  His argument is that we need to get into the red more than we are to start boosting new jobs.

While I voted No I am not it passed *IF* I am able to travel in the state with out flying.  It takes longer for me to get through security at John Wayne airport then it does to actually fly.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2008, 02:07:53 PM »
I didn't pay much attention to the high speed rail prop but was it a state wide system? (Personally I think a high speed NATIONAL rail system might be a good idea for a variety of reasons, but hey, government and trains, that works so well)...someone mentioned something about LA to vegas

Offline westkoast

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 02:15:04 PM »
I didn't pay much attention to the high speed rail prop but was it a state wide system? (Personally I think a high speed NATIONAL rail system might be a good idea for a variety of reasons, but hey, government and trains, that works so well)...someone mentioned something about LA to vegas

Right now it's LA/OC to San Fran.  It is proposed to be from SD on up eventually.

http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2008, 02:24:03 PM »
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Right now it's LA/OC to San Fran.  It is proposed to be from SD on up eventually.

LA/OC to San Fran with stops in between or will LA and SF continue to act as if outside of LA and SF california is a barren wasteland?

Offline westkoast

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2008, 02:26:03 PM »
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Right now it's LA/OC to San Fran.  It is proposed to be from SD on up eventually.

LA/OC to San Fran with stops in between or will LA and SF continue to act as if outside of LA and SF california is a barren wasteland?

Stops in Bakersfield, Fresno, and I don't know the others.  There will be multiple stops, just not right away.  Reason being is there is some existing infastructure in those locations.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2008, 02:27:21 PM »
Cool - so I won't be able to benefit from this unless i want to take amtrak down to OC

Excellent :)

Offline JoMal

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2008, 02:28:31 PM »
Jomal, what is your take on the high speed rail passing?

I voted No because we don't have money.  Someone I was talking to about it earlier (my co-worker on the road with me) that he agrees we don't have the money but feels that the wealthy in this state are going to sit on their cash for the next few years.  His argument is that we need to get into the red more than we are to start boosting new jobs.

While I voted No I am not it passed *IF* I am able to travel in the state with out flying.  It takes longer for me to get through security at John Wayne airport then it does to actually fly.

I completely agree with the concept of high speed rail. In a state as large as California, it makes perfect sense. But I also voted against it because of the cost. Not sure what your co-worker was referring to by saying we needed to get more in the red. Any more red and we are going to be bleeding into the Pacific.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Prop 8 protests are getting violent in LA
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2008, 02:29:25 PM »
I know nothing about the high speed rail system in japan - is it government funded or privately owned?