Author Topic: Pre-season grades for your squad  (Read 4251 times)

Offline westkoast

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Pre-season grades for your squad
« on: October 24, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »
Since the pre-season is about to wrap up here I wanted to get everyones take on the good and bad of what they saw from their squad so far.  I think 8 games is enough to get a handle on what lineups look effective, which do not, and exactly how rusty the team really is heading into opening week.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 03:07:59 PM »
Well, the Spurs have played 6 games going 3-3.  It is hard to get a good read because Pop has really been evaluating Roger Mason, a couple rookies and several invitees.

These are the players who have been in all 6 games:

Matt Bonner 18.8 minutes/game:  Robert Horry's heir apparent.  A PF with a decent long range touch...just not Big Shot's flair for the dramatic.  Good hustler, active on the boards but tends to love his shot a little too much.  4th or 5th big man in rotation.

Desmon Farmer 18.2 min: A combo guard from USC (we aren't holding this against him) that has had a solid shooting stroke for the preseason - 44% overall; 52% from the arc.

Anthony Tolliver 20.3 min: A PF that has benefited from Thomas and Mahinmi being injured.  Struggling with his shot but has that Turiaf-like knack of being involved in good things on the court.

Malik Hairston 21.7 min: A SG/SF that is averaging 4.5 boards and 1+ blocks per game in the preseason.  Best shot to make the team is as an active defender.

Of these 4 "primary" players in the preseason; Bonner is under contract and the other 3 are battling for the final 2 roster (pine) spots.

Now for the real team:
Starters:
Oberto (4 games/17.8 minutes)
Duncan (4/21.2)
Bowen (4/15)
Finley (4/17.8)
Parker (5/17.8)

Others in terms of bench importance:
Manu - back around New Year's; hopefully having the first half of the season off will help him stay healthier for the real season in May/June.

Kurt Thomas (3/17.3)  first big man off the bench - 4.3 boards and 47% shooting in his limited minutes.

Ime Udoka - (4/19.0) Bowen's backup/replacement - expect him to continue to improve on last season.

Roger Mason, Jr (5/19.8) FA signee from the Wizards.  Is looking more comfortable with the team with each game.  Should get some decent minutes until Manu returns.  May take Finley's minutes after Jan 1.

Jacques Vaughan (5/14.4) Should start season as TP's backup.  May get pushed by rookie Hill who is the better defender.  Vaughan is better at running a team because of his experience.

Matt Bonner - see above but I would expect Mahinmi to take his minutes by the all star game.

Ian Mahinmi (injured ankle) He was expected to play a major role as Duncan's backup this year after a great year in the NDBL last season.  Just started treadmill work and may get assigned back to NDBL for a couple weeks to get into playing shape.

George Hill (3/19.3) As posted in the other thread he has run into an injury.  I would expect as much from him this year as any other first round pick in the 20s - great cheerleading and high energy practicing.


Overall it has been tough to get a read on the Spurs as Pop has really given the new guys lots of minutes to prove themselves.  I would expect to still see a good bit of mix & match from Pop throughout November.  But by April I think the Spurs will be fighting for home court...at least in the first round.  And I wouldn't sleep on the "old guys" in the playoffs.
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jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2008, 07:53:47 PM »
Mo Cheeks gets an F since Willie Green still gets minutes

Offline westkoast

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 10:53:51 AM »
Mo Cheeks gets an F since Willie Green still gets minutes


Thanks for that in-depth analysis Jem!

Doesnt it make sense to give guys minutes to prove themselves in the pre-season and if they don't perform you don't give them minutes in the regular season?

Rickortreat was high on Willie Green last year if I remember correctly...
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 12:14:58 PM »
Willie gets no respect from anyone, and it appears common knowledge that he's not a good player, listening to the self-appointed sports authorities in the city.  As I see it, Willie is an above-average journeyman NBA guard.  He has an adequate handle and a decent outside shot.  On most teams he'd be a starter or the first guard off the bench. In Phila, he's the 4th guard, with Andre Miller, Andre Iguodala and Lou Williams ahead.  In the last preseason game Miller was out, and Green led the Sixers with 7 assists, and also put up 14 pts. in a backup role.

It should be noted that the Sixers also brought in free agents Kareem Rush and Royal Ivey in an attempt to address their outside and trey shooting, but neither of them was able to push Willie out of the fourth spot.

The Sixers look better on paper than they have this preseason.  The offense through Brand is not fluid and the rest of the team doesn't know how to play with a legitimate low-post threat.  With that said the Sixers have 7 guys who are potential double-digit scorers every night, and the outside shooting has improved thanks to some hard summer work, by Iguadala, Young, Williams and Green to improve their three-point accuracy.

The defense has been non-existant so far, none of the ball-trapping, hard-switching pressure defense that made them a strong running team last season. 

The Sixers did some major retooling this summer, by adding Brand, Ivey, Rush, Ratliff and rookie Marreese Speights.  The media covered the Brand trade, but hardly anyone has noticed the emergence of Speights as a legitimate Center and a significant upgrade over Jason Smith as Sam Dalembert's backup.  In the final preseason game, thanks to Dalemberts' injury, Speights put up 18 points, 7 boards and and 2 blocks in in 32 min.  It's not unreasonable to ask if Dalembert would have done any better!

The Sixers are deeper and more talented than they were last year, and they are taller as well, with the addition of Brand, Speights and Ratliff, plus the emergence of 6-8 Thad Young as the small forward.  They are young, athletic, aggressive and persistent.  With the addition of Brand, they should be able to score in the half-court, and the improvement of their young players suggests they should be able to spread the floor and give Brand room to work.

Cheeks now has sufficient depth to enjoy exceptional flexibility as a coach, he can play small or big and won't ever have difficulty finding a player to match-up with an opponents star. No more relying on undersized players to play the 4 or 5 spot. No more worrying about Sam Dalembert getting into foul trouble.

The Sixer's 2nd team would be good enough to win 40 games by itself, with Williams, Green, Evans, Ratliff and Speights and they even had third string players behind them who are all legitimate NBA players- there are no stiffs on the squad.

I think it will take a few more weeks for the team to jell and figure out how to work together, but their first few opponents apart from Toronto are fairly weak and the Sixers could get off to a fast start even while they are working things out.  I'd give them a C+, but that's because I wanted to see more of their last-years style of play and Cheeks wasn't focused on defense. 

Should win more than 50 games this year and possibly 60 depending on how fast they learn to play together.  Can't say their better than Boston yet but it looks like they should be able to contend for the EC title.  The best edition of the team since their finals appearance, and this team is much more talented than that one.

jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 12:50:57 PM »
Quote
Willie gets no respect from anyone, and it appears common knowledge that he's not a good player, listening to the self-appointed sports authorities in the city.  As I see it, Willie is an above-average journeyman NBA guard.

the irony in here is palpable as you seem to appoint yourself an authority on most anything...plus you seem not to pay attention to the national media.

Willie Green is seen as a bad basketball player almost everywhere, nationally, in almost every metric...he's an inefficient basketball player who can't get to the foul line seems unwilling to pass and drives with his head down....he's a dime a dozen fungible player but doesn't even have a special skill that would keep him going...

Louis Williams isn't a point guard, he's a short shooting guard who could play in the back court with ANdre Iguodala and be a better back court combo than Willie Green with anyone...the fact that he has a long term deal aggravates the situation but that's the fault of the previously bad GM....he doesn't belong in the rotation of a championship caliber team.

Quote
The Sixer's 2nd team would be good enough to win 40 games by itself, with Williams, Green, Evans, Ratliff and Speights and they even had third string players behind them who are all legitimate NBA players- there are no stiffs on the squad.

I gotta get me some of the glasses you got, that 5 right there has a small forward that can't defend small forwards or even score very well.

For the past few seasons the sixers have stunk at:

Protecting the defensive glasss
perimeter defense
perimeter (3 point) shooting
clock management

Most fans seem to be pining their hopes on Thaddeus Young developing into a serious deep threat...i think that's a pretty big thing to hang on a second year player, and i'm a big thad young fan.

The sixers might not even come in second place in their division,  but yeah, i'm sure they'll get close to 60 games.



Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 01:07:45 PM »
FYI jemagee,

There are three things that can NOT be discussed objectively on this board:

1) Lakers
2) Spurs
3) Sixers

The Sixers have a stiff in their starting lineup, don't get me started about how many stiffs they have on their entire roster.  The only way the Sixers win 60 games is if they are allowed to replace ALL their WC games with EC opponents at HOME.  Every Sixers stiff is a potential all-star double digit scorer.  Some people are under the dillusion that Iggs is on the same tier as Kobe.
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jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2008, 01:12:09 PM »
Quote
The Sixers have a stiff in their starting lineup, don't get me started about how many stiffs they have on their entire roster.  The only way the Sixers win 60 games is if they are allowed to replace ALL their WC games with EC opponents at HOME.  Every Sixers stiff is a potential all-star double digit scorer.  Some people are under the dillusion that Iggs is on the same tier as Kobe.

Are we talking about the stiff at the starting center?  Iguodala is a great player, I'm a big fan, always have been, but if anyone puts him in the conversation with Kobe they have to have their sanity questioned.

Like I said, I think the sixers will get 3rd place in their division this year, then in the off season miller will walk and they will be point guard less cause I don't see Louis Williams having the innate skills necessary to be a point guard, because he's never been asked to be a point guard.

Personally, I'm with David Berri on this point, the sixers didn't 'over perform' last year they were just grossly underestimated in the beginning of the season, and oh yeah, they still had a losing record...do the sixers off season moves warrant a 25% increase in wins, let alone a 50% increase if you are someone who truly believes they can win 60 games (which is just beyond even the most optimistic projection in my mind)

Offline westkoast

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 11:06:29 AM »
Quote
The Sixers have a stiff in their starting lineup, don't get me started about how many stiffs they have on their entire roster.  The only way the Sixers win 60 games is if they are allowed to replace ALL their WC games with EC opponents at HOME.  Every Sixers stiff is a potential all-star double digit scorer.  Some people are under the dillusion that Iggs is on the same tier as Kobe.

Are we talking about the stiff at the starting center?  Iguodala is a great player, I'm a big fan, always have been, but if anyone puts him in the conversation with Kobe they have to have their sanity questioned.

Like I said, I think the sixers will get 3rd place in their division this year, then in the off season miller will walk and they will be point guard less cause I don't see Louis Williams having the innate skills necessary to be a point guard, because he's never been asked to be a point guard.

Personally, I'm with David Berri on this point, the sixers didn't 'over perform' last year they were just grossly underestimated in the beginning of the season, and oh yeah, they still had a losing record...do the sixers off season moves warrant a 25% increase in wins, let alone a 50% increase if you are someone who truly believes they can win 60 games (which is just beyond even the most optimistic projection in my mind)

Who do you see above the Sixers in the EC aside from Boston?

I think the addition of Elton Brand and the recent development of Andre is going to be a pretty good (and interesting) combo for the Sixers this year.  With that said if you need to think twice if a the Sixers are close to the Celtics you need to have your sanity checked.  Boston is not just the best team in the EC.  They are the best team in the league.
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jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 11:32:04 AM »
The recent development of Andre doesn't include improved perimeter shooting, still a sixers weakness, and hopefully brand makes the rebounding better and that the sixers have a better assist to fg ratio.

As for teams that are better, in the playoffs, than the sixers (cause really that's what matters)

Until proven other wise, the pistons are better than the sixers come playoffs time
As are the cavs I believe
If Jermaine O'neal stays healthy, i think the raptors are better than the sixers come playoffs time

So include the celtics, and there's 4


Offline westkoast

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 11:45:26 AM »
The recent development of Andre doesn't include improved perimeter shooting, still a sixers weakness, and hopefully brand makes the rebounding better and that the sixers have a better assist to fg ratio.

As for teams that are better, in the playoffs, than the sixers (cause really that's what matters)

Until proven other wise, the pistons are better than the sixers come playoffs time
As are the cavs I believe
If Jermaine O'neal stays healthy, i think the raptors are better than the sixers come playoffs time

So include the celtics, and there's 4



How much of the poor Sixers shooting had to do with not having good spacing?  I would say that having a legit post threat should help out in that area quite a bit.  That is something the Sixers haven't had in a REALLY long time.

And I am assuming you meant to say Chris Bosh instead of Jermaine O'Neal.  Not really that big on the Raptors to be honest.
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jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 11:47:53 AM »
No, I meant to say Jeamine O'neal - he's the one with back issues the past few seasons, not Bosh.  Bosh is Bosh, you know what you are getting, plus I think the Raps will benefit from Calderon starting from day one.

Quote
How much of the poor Sixers shooting had to do with not having good spacing?  I would say that having a legit post threat should help out in that area quite a bit.  That is something the Sixers haven't had in a REALLY long time.

I used to say that a lot too, but people smarter than me (including our fearless leader) dissuaded me from that as well...the only good perimeter shooter the sixers have had in a long time was traded to Utah.

Offline JoMal

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 07:02:57 PM »
If I may interject a commentary for the upcoming season regarding my Kings in the middle of this Sixers lovefest.

Please don't hurt us.
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jemagee

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2008, 07:58:00 PM »
If I may interject a commentary for the upcoming season regarding my Kings in the middle of this Sixers lovefest.

Please don't hurt us.

Did Hammer move to Sacto?

Offline JoMal

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Re: Pre-season grades for your squad
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 08:58:32 PM »
If I may interject a commentary for the upcoming season regarding my Kings in the middle of this Sixers lovefest.

Please don't hurt us.

Did Hammer move to Sacto?

No, but he is FROM Sacramento.
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