I would like your honest opinions and feedback on the enclosed news story

[ziggy]

http://www.ktvz.com/global/story.asp?s=9192687

This is from my hometown.  I don't know the coach, met him once, he was my sons weight training teacher for 2 years.  I do know the kid.  I know the mom she married a local guy and worked for our company for about 8 years.  I know the boys dad, have known him since he was 10-12 years old.  He has worked for our company for 20 years, same with his brother who I have known even longer.  I known the Indian fella Chet Van Pelt, known him for 40 years.  Know the Indian kids as well.

Just want your unvarnished opinions about the whole situation.

[Reality]

The classic human failure of the one offended not taking thier complaint to the offender (unless offender is known obstinate)?  Sounds like kid told Mom, Mom ran to media? 

That being said don't get me wrong, Dumbass Joke Teller Coach is the instigator of all this, what a stupid illustation to use.  "Hang you with a rope."?  Are some of the Central Oregan red neck/southern transplants stuck in 1962?  Very strange choice of words.  Lets hope it was a badd attempt at humor and as so many in the media/entertaintainment try to go to, that being the shock/rude card passed off as humor, was that coachs real motive?  With the media dumbasses running with this, i think the coach is toast and more damage ends up coming to the kid then good due to the exposure.

Conclusion i think it may have been very possible for Mom to confront coach and he issue a sincere apology and all this be done.  That having been said, Coach instigated this.  Lesson to us all dont make stupid jokes and esp with media pot stirrers running around.

[westkoast]

Sorry not going to blame the media or the mother like Reality.  As if it's not possible for a high school student to know about slavery and images/phrases that came from time?  Must have been the old mom or the media right?    Why is it so hard to believe the kid would be upset?  Teenagers don't like to be singled out or made to feel like they are not accepted.  You tell me what is worse then having your team's coach, whom everyone looks up to, single you out based on your skin color?  Save the poor-coach-is-getting-blasted-by-the-media bs.    The evil media is only hurting him right?  They couldn't possibly be making this kid an outcast among his old friends on the team huh?  He isn't going to be known as the kid who got coach fired the rest of his high school days I guess.

(Some White) People fail to realize that even if you are joking it's still racist.  The coach is a racist.  Also as an adult, he should have used better judgment when trying to "joke" with a child.   Do you think if an Asian player showed up late and he said "I'm going to make you go work on the railroad now" that it would just be the media?    It's perfectly understandable for people to get upset when they are singled out over something as stupid as skin color.  Since when did the media create that it was not okay to say?  So angry mobs hanging people didn't really make people upset until the media showed up?    Media or no media.  A Coach should know better and shouldn't be saying things that could possibly hurt everyone buying into the team concept. 

I don't know about you guys but some of the coaches I've had playing sports had a real influence on my life. A lot of NBA players are still close with their high school and college coaches.  You don't want to slap the guy on the hand over something such as being a bigot.  He has too much influence on these kids minds to not lose his job over this.

[Joe Vancil]

There are several things I've got to say about this.

1)  What happens at a team practice should stay at a team practice.  The kid, whether offended, upset, embarrassed, or whatever, should have taken it up with the coach himself.  Being a part of a team involves TRUSTING your teammates - and that includes the coach.

Conclusion 1:  The kid should have never been part of the team, because he was obviously not ready to give his teammates the benefit of the doubt.

2)  This is another example of people being overly sensitive.  Should I claim religious persecution if my boss says, sending me in to a meeting, "I'm throwing you to the lions"?  I say no.  Certain things - "string you up", "tie a rope around your neck," "throw you to the lions," etc - pass from history into analogy.  The comment is NOT racist.  If the player had been white, it would have been no big deal.  The fact that people have to change language around one person is infintely more racist than the comment made.

Conclusion 2:  Fighting racism by claiming offense at everything is among the best ways of continuing and/or teaching racism.

3)  While the coach chose a poor analogy, the fact that the rest of the team is standing behind him means that they didn't think it was a big deal.  To turn it into one sounds like the work of a media outlet.

Conclusion 3:  Thursday, I watched a coach belittle a 7th grader - publicly - during a timeout.  Apparently, public belittlement isn't as big a story as a smart-aleck comment about a player being late to practice.

[westkoast]

There are several things I've got to say about this.

1)  What happens at a team practice should stay at a team practice.  The kid, whether offended, upset, embarrassed, or whatever, should have taken it up with the coach himself.  Being a part of a team involves TRUSTING your teammates - and that includes the coach.

He's a child.  Not a man.  This is not a job, it suppose to be fun.  You actually believe a teenager is going to take up a race debate with his coach on his own?  Not happening.  You are using your grown man way of dealing with things/thinking and applying it to a child.

Conclusion 1:  The kid should have never been part of the team, because he was obviously not ready to give his teammates the benefit of the doubt.

WOW...I honestly expect more from you Joe.  It's not about giving the benefit of the doubt.  Even if it was a "joke" it was still racist.  The coach shouldn't be the coach of the team because he doesn't think before he talks, he is setting a horrible example for the children who look up to him, and he is singling players out.  The exact opposite of what a GOOD coach would do.  The kid has every right to be upset.  I explained in my post that not only is it a f'd up image to think about (I would hope for ANYONE) but he also singled him out.  A teenager wants to be accepted and doesn't want to be singled out negatively like that.  Nothing is worse then singling out someone based on their skin color or religion in that setting (school)

2)  This is another example of people being overly sensitive.  Should I claim religious persecution if my boss says, sending me in to a meeting, "I'm throwing you to the lions"?  I say no.  Certain things - "string you up", "tie a rope around your neck," "throw you to the lions," etc - pass from history into analogy.  The comment is NOT racist.  If the player had been white, it would have been no big deal.  The fact that people have to change language around one person is infintely more racist than the comment made.

Sorry but your people haven't been thrown to the lions in thousands of years.  People were getting hanged 50 years ago.  Horrible horrible horrible HORRIBLE example.

If the player had been white then saying he would hang him would have no weight behind it because.........Black people didn't chase white people around to hang them for no reason in this country.  Now if a black coach made reference to the Moors attacking Italy to an Italian player then maybe you would have an example to compare this to.

Conclusion 2:  Fighting racism by claiming offense at everything is among the best ways of continuing and/or teaching racism.

I believe ignoring blatant racism by playing the "joke" card does the best job of continuing racism.  Slip up at the lip and shout something racist?  You were just joking!  Is he an insult comedian now?

Fighting racism by making sure young children know it is not ok to joke about hanging people sounds like  a good way to send a message.

3)  While the coach chose a poor analogy, the fact that the rest of the team is standing behind him means that they didn't think it was a big deal.  To turn it into one sounds like the work of a media outlet.

Of course they did.  For one they are children who don't fully understand what is going on.  Second, the guy could literally rape a cheerleader and some of them would stand behind him.  That is the influence a coach has on his players at a young age.  That is exactly why being a bigot is not okay.  That stuff will easily rub off on the children.

Conclusion 3:  Thursday, I watched a coach belittle a 7th grader - publicly - during a timeout.  Apparently, public belittlement isn't as big a story as a smart-aleck comment about a player being late to practice.

Yelling at a player and making him have to do some kind of exercise as punishment is apart of sports.  Yelling overly racist comments at him over being late for practice is an entirely different thing.  It wasn't a smart-aleck comment is was down right racist.

[Skandery]

I agree with westkoast in that the coach is really at fault for blowing the situation up.  Now its the kid's fault for showing up late to practice and that can't be excused.  As a coach you yell at him, you make him run laps, you don't invoke the act of "lynching" ESPECIALLY to a black kid.  Some situations are just too different to be handled by nonchalance.  Some situations the rules don't apply the same way.  Even if the coach did say it in a joking matter, the subconcious connotation is bad enough.

"Throwing to the lions" doesn't apply because its so far back in history (2,000 years ago) that it doesn't even enter the human conscience as a literal threat.  Lynching was being done a few short decades ago (in the specific situation of white people doing it to black people) and depending on the town in PRESENT day American may consititute a legitamate, literal threat.  We had white kids hang ropes from trees in their schoolyard in Louisiana just this past year. 

A jewish player shows up late to practice and his coach yells, "Next time I'll have you drawn and quartered!"; doesn't have the same meaning as, "Next time I'm going to throw you in the oven!"  Both are gruesome deaths and show a poor choice of words (whether meant as a joke or not), but one of those threats is going to affect that Jewish player exponentially more than the other one.  Same situation, different rules. 

Depending on the situation, I'd react completely different to being called a sand ni**er or a towel-head.  A good friend says it in jest amongst close friends, sure.  Someone who doesn't know me says it or its said in public, you better believe I'm going to be angry and hurt.  Same comment, different rules. 

Now I don't know this Coach Hiatt from Adam.  He could very well be an upstanding, racially tolerant, great human being; he should have thought about the situation a little more carefully before letting something like that fly.  I think he is paying a dear price for something which had he taken an extra second to think about probably wouldn't have said in the first place.

[WayOutWest]

ziggy,

Real quick.....

I didn't read anyones responses and I don't have time right now to put all my thoughts down, but IMO it's a very simple issue.

Anybody who has had a serious relationship with anyone should know this.....

It's NOT what you say or how you say it.
It's NOT what you do or how you do it.

It's how you make the other person feel.

Those rules need to be applied to everyday life in these times.  Coach screwed up, end of story.  You CAN NOT criticize the outcome after that screw up.

[WayOutWest]

sand ni**er

What?  How do you even pronounce "**"?  Is that a Spurs joke?

[WayOutWest]

Frak Joe where do I start? 

There are several things I've got to say about this.

1)  What happens at a team practice should stay at a team practice.  The kid, whether offended, upset, embarrassed, or whatever, should have taken it up with the coach himself.  Being a part of a team involves TRUSTING your teammates - and that includes the coach.

Conclusion 1:  The kid should have never been part of the team, because he was obviously not ready to give his teammates the benefit of the doubt.

You are so wrong you four-eyed egotistical SLUT!

In this day and age that is one of the stupidest stances you can take.  With kids having ojects rammed up their arses, beaten, humiliated, and in some cases KILLED, you do NOT take the "what happens in team practice" stance anymore.  "Hazing/Team bonding" BS has probably going on for ages but it didn't get reported or sensationalized as much in the past because of that same attitude.  If I saw coach Knight grab my kid by the neck I would kick the shit out of coach then make him eat it.  If some kids/coaches shove something up my kids arse, you can bet ALL their names are going on a little piece of paper.  You cross the line on a kid and you are just ASKING/BEGGING for someone to cross the line on your arse.

Like wk posted, it's a completely different argument cause it was the COACH who said it and the coach carries a lot of weight in that kids world.  Since nothing physcial was done to the kid I would be ok if coach got suspended then be required to attend some "sensitivey" classes before being put in charge of kids again.  That poor kids school life is ruined, there is no getting it back cause he is now a polarizing figure at school.

As far as your ridiculous comment about him not being a "team" kid in the first place, IMO that dumbass coach should NOT have been put in charge of children in any way shape or form unless it's a KKK school. 

2)  This is another example of people being overly sensitive.  Should I claim religious persecution if my boss says, sending me in to a meeting, "I'm throwing you to the lions"?  I say no.  Certain things - "string you up", "tie a rope around your neck," "throw you to the lions," etc - pass from history into analogy.  The comment is NOT racist.  If the player had been white, it would have been no big deal.  The fact that people have to change language around one person is infintely more racist than the comment made.

Conclusion 2:  Fighting racism by claiming offense at everything is among the best ways of continuing and/or teaching racism.

WRONG AGAIN!  Everyone in this country has a RIGHT to be "sensative".  You cannot assume you are amoungst friends every second of every minute of every hour of every day.  I had a girlfriend that would call me a wetback everytime I got out of the shower and of course I didn't mind or get all "sensative".  On the flip if some teacher were to call me that there would have been trouble.  I probably would have dealt with it right there and then but not every kid is the same.  My oldest has gotten kicked out of classes for calling teachers out for dumb comments they have made in class, eerily similar to what the kid in story had to deal with but my second oldest would have a hard time dealing with it and would probably hide his feelings about it.  So you cannot assume people will be able to handle your allegidly benign (sic?) racists remarks.

3)  While the coach chose a poor analogy, the fact that the rest of the team is standing behind him means that they didn't think it was a big deal.  To turn it into one sounds like the work of a media outlet.

Conclusion 3:  Thursday, I watched a coach belittle a 7th grader - publicly - during a timeout.  Apparently, public belittlement isn't as big a story as a smart-aleck comment about a player being late to practice.

Shows you how much power that coach has over his kids or maybe even shows the mentality of those kids.  IMO the coach is either a closet bigot or stupid for not knowing what "hanging" could possibly mean to a black kid.  Either way that coach should probably not be a mentor to kids unless he gets some additional education.  Public humiliation of a child is wrong anyway you cut it.

[Laker Fan]

Ridiculous over reaction, RIDICULOUS! You got that 'Koast and WOW? I am Native American and Hispanic, so I know whar racist comments are, believe me. But this world is just plain STUPIDLY over-sensitive, the way I read the article, the coach chose a poorly thought out comment, IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes him stupid, PERIOD!

In spite of what all you PC wet your panties morons may think, there IS NOT a racist lurking around every corner waiting to issue some thinly veiled threat that might scare your little sissy, whiney, crying little girl (oops, was that sexist?!) feelers!!! There are racists to be sure abut sometime there are just stupid comments, and vile ambulance chasers (that ARE waiting around every corner) waiting to pounce like rabid dogs on any little foible someone might make, IT MAKES ME SICK! Get over yourselves, and quit looking for the white sheet in everyones closet!!!!!

And watch your language while your at it!!!!

[westkoast]

Ridiculous over reaction, RIDICULOUS! You got that 'Koast and WOW? I am Native American and Hispanic, so I know whar racist comments are, believe me. But this world is just plain STUPIDLY over-sensitive, the way I read the article, the coach chose a poorly thought out comment, IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes him stupid, PERIOD!

In spite of what all you PC wet your panties morons may think, there IS NOT a racist lurking around every corner waiting to issue some thinly veiled threat that might scare your little sissy, whiney, crying little girl (oops, was that sexist?!) feelers!!! There are racists to be sure abut sometime there are just stupid comments, and vile ambulance chasers (that ARE waiting around every corner) waiting to pounce like rabid dogs on any little foible someone might make, IT MAKES ME SICK! Get over yourselves, and quit looking for the white sheet in everyones closet!!!!!

And watch your language while your at it!!!!

No it makes him a stupid racist.  Sorry LFD the coach has too much influence over young children's minds to be able to get away with racial jokes of that magnitude over the player being late to a practice.

It's far from being a pc wet-your-panties-moron (though I think it's pretty moronic to call people names because they disagree with you, way to take a page out of Reality's book there buddy) because he is literally talking about KILLING someone using terms that described HORRIBLE acts against humans.  I believe each human has the right to live.  Hanging people because they were black I would say is in violation of HUMAN RIGHTS.  Basic rights EVERYONE should have.  Those come into play when  talking about here when discussing things such as people hanging other people for no reason.   If he would have said he would beat him with his belt, made him run a thousand laps, or anything a NORMAL coach would do then it's not a big deal.  Saying he is going to tie a rope around his neck and hang him is NOT OKAY.  I don't care how MACHO you want to make yourself sound.  Being called a racial slur is one thing and having one of the most despicable  acts I've seen by "civilized" people described to you over being late is another.  I am not going to give someone who makes a comment like that the benefit of the doubt this was the first time they were being racist.

Would you be A-OK if you showed up late to work and your boss told you 'Hay Dan, your late so I am going to throw a blanket with some disease on it all over you and your family'   Whether you will honestly admit it or not, I don't think you would be to happy to hear that (As that would be more along the lines of what was said to this CHILD then your example of being called a hispanic racial slur)  Now multiply that by 5 when you take into consideration this was a CHILD and a coach is someone they look up too a great deal.

[WayOutWest]

Ridiculous over reaction, RIDICULOUS! You got that 'Koast and WOW? I am Native American and Hispanic, so I know whar racist comments are, believe me. But this world is just plain STUPIDLY over-sensitive, the way I read the article, the coach chose a poorly thought out comment, IT DOESN'T MAKE HIM RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes him stupid, PERIOD!

In spite of what all you PC wet your panties morons may think, there IS NOT a racist lurking around every corner waiting to issue some thinly veiled threat that might scare your little sissy, whiney, crying little girl (oops, was that sexist?!) feelers!!! There are racists to be sure abut sometime there are just stupid comments, and vile ambulance chasers (that ARE waiting around every corner) waiting to pounce like rabid dogs on any little foible someone might make, IT MAKES ME SICK! Get over yourselves, and quit looking for the white sheet in everyones closet!!!!!

And watch your language while your at it!!!!

I agree with everything you said but my/your level of tolerance does NOT apply to everyone nor SHOULD it.  Do you really think for ONE second I'm PC?

And watch your language while your at it!!!!

This is exactly what I was going to counter with but you beat me to the punch.  You are either poking fun at your self for your own hypocrisy or you are just displaying it.  I really don't know which because I know you're an intelligent poster but I also know everyone has a "blind spot" or two.

[JoMal]

From the interpretation of this reaction on the board, it would appear there is still latent racism in this country. But in this instance, I seriously doubt the coach in question was being racist, so much as insensitive.

I was handing candy out one Halloween to several kids. As they left, I said, "You boys take care now," to which one spun around and yelled "Don't call me boy!". So do I seriously have to rethink everything I say around people of color?. I can't. Neither can they, as it turns out, or no one is going to ever talk to one another again. Too controversial. People will continue to say inappropriate things long after all of us have been worm feed for several decades.

But the only racist thing that will be resolved every time is that someone who probably never meant to offend is going to get to do the walk of shame and never, ever, on any occassion, on any level, on any media court of public opinion ever have a chance to redeem himself.

THAT is why racism will fester for as long as you can imagine into the future. NOT that these things are ever said.

I can assure you, if the meaning of the statement by that coach was meant to inspire images of lynchings, the tone of the coaches words would have left no doubt in the minds of every young man who heard them. That it did not tells me his intent was elsewhere and he just said the wrong thing, which could have been pointed out at the time and then could have been judged as to intent.

[JoMal]

One other thing and I seriously think you all should consider this.

You are never going to solve the racism issues of this country by bludgeoning a man who said something inappropriately and will never have any opportunity now to renounce or recant the statement. If this were to happen every time, we cannot ever live side-by-side in any sort of harmony.

[Derek Bodner]

I don't have time to fully delve into my thoughts on the matter, but I have to say I pretty much agree with JoMal to a T.  Political Correctness is a pendulum, and after the brutalities minorities went through in previous generations, now everything, despite its intent, is being taken as the worst possible scenario.  Rope was used to hang people long before there was even a notion of what "african american" was, and just because it was said to an African American doesn't mean it was a racist remark.  Inappropriate?  Maybe, but even that I say it's only inappropriate because people are looking to interpret it that way.