Author Topic: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)  (Read 12237 times)

Offline Skandery

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2008, 05:00:55 PM »
I'll play ball . . .

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Corporate greed is successful whether you regulate or whether you de-regulate.  Regulation prohibits the entry of new competition into the market, thereby creating an effective monopoly;  deregulation means no checks and balances and oversight to make sure we're not being ripped off.

I disagree.  The problem we face today is because Wall Street executives found new ways to cheat, found new ways to make easy money, found new ways to fill their coffers, while the watchdogs and regulators were castrated and operating as on the standard procedures of yesteryear.  And your own conservative Republican appointed Treasury Secretary Paulson has said the same thing.  Corporate Greed and Regulation don't exist in a vacuum, Joe, and saying otherwise shows a true lack of understanding of cause and effect.

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You live in Columbia, MO, Skander.  Do you get good cable TV service?  Do you think you'd get better service if someone could compete with the only provider, or do you think the service you're getting is as good as you're going to get?  How about your land-line phones?  Your natural gas?  I think I'm at the mercy of Mediacom, Centurytel, and Ameren UE - and that they know that my options are to do it through them, or to do without.  And I think they're making a mint.

Competition and Regulation aren't mutually exclusive.  There isn't a law OR regulation saying you can't found you're own cable company, or natural gas company, or phone company to provide service for Mid-Missouri.

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It's supposed to be just as illegal in the workplace as it was in baseball.  The problem is that it gets punished about the same way in both.

Agreed, it doesn't get punished because some dereg blowhard under the banner of "Fiscal Conservatism" has told you regulation (in other words RULES THAT PROTECT YOU FROM COLLUSION AND THEFT) is communism.  And you bought it lock, stock, and barrel.

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The government oversight that was supposed to be happening in the rules of the SEC was still there;  it didn't catch the problem.

I'm going to have to sit you down to watch the video again, Joe.  Do you remember WHY the problem wasn't caught.  Because the head of the FTC (Federal Trade Commission); this is the pertinent agency, not SEC, was a hand-picked Right-Wing Deregulator appointed by W at the behest of Ken Lay HIMSELF!!!!  That guy, along with 'ole W pretty much told California to F*** OFF!!!  

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Absolutely, deregulation is a right-wing ideology.  Government funding for "the public good" is a left-wing ideology, correct?

You'll have to explain to me how castrating administrative agencies of their rule-making and oversight, and funding public programs is in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM related, much less the same ballpark.

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The problem with your philosophy here is that you're focusing on ONLY ONE COMPONENT.  In a situation like this, this can't happen because of JUST ONE COMPONENT. So Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and Barney Frank should be our moral examples?


Actually, you're the one pigeon-holing my argument.  I don't care if your a bleeding heart or a fascist, I'll assign blame where its due regardless.  I don't string up the liar to punish a theft.  If we were talking about unnecessary pork barrel, bleeding heart, after school program for the poverty-stricken program that was costing me a hike in taxes.  You bet those left-wing scum-bags would be hearing it from me.  Deregulation as a platform from which unsrupulous executives and investors can abuse the system for their own petty self-interest is a RIGHT-WING SCUM BAG thing, generally.  

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The left has its share of scumbags, Skander

When did I say different.

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And by the way, if more people DID believe that Jesus is Lord and abortion is murder and started acting like it, then maybe our country would have a strong enough moral compass not to accept what is passing as government and actually make a few sacrifices in order to do something about it, instead of looking at it from the self-centered view.

You'll have to excuse me for agreeing with the founding fathers of this country when they drew a clear delineation between church and state.  I still live in the UNITED States of America, not the CHRISTIAN States of America.  Unlike you, I don't believe a righteous statesmen needs to believe that Jesus is Lord and abortion is murder.  They don't have to believe in Allah or the 5 pillars, either.   I sometimes wish these moral values voters get their wish and a true Theocracy overtakes the government.  Find out how that kind of a system works.  

The very EXISTENCE of the United States of America was predicated on the basic human need for an individual to worship and believe as they wish with no hand of government legislating and enforcing morality.  The settlers, pilgrims, and eventually founders of this country learned the hard way what religion-based government does for a society.  And it seems a lot of people today would rather learn the lesson for themselves instead of looking to history.  If a bible-thumping christian doesn't understand that with respect to their beliefs, the Bible may be the most important book in their lives, but with respect to their country, the Constitution is the most important document in their lives; I submit that individual is UNPATRIOTIC and UNFIT for civic duty!
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

jemagee

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2008, 05:56:17 PM »
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And by the way, if more people DID believe that Jesus is Lord and abortion is murder and started acting like it, then maybe our country would have a strong enough moral compass not to accept what is passing as government and actually make a few sacrifices in order to do something about it, instead of looking at it from the self-centered view.

I'm glad I missed this paragraph first time around, it would have made me throw up my lunch.



Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2008, 06:31:36 PM »
let's try to keep the discussion as non-personal as we can.

jemagee

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2008, 06:39:26 PM »
Please keep in mind that not everyone here is CHRISTIAN and might be offended by such moralizing as has been done
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 06:43:24 PM by jemagee »

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2008, 06:52:17 PM »
I'm agnostic, so I certainly understand not everyone is christian.

All I'm saying is keep in mind to debate points, not people.  I didn't quote you, or anyone else.  I'm saying from the general direction this thread is headed.

jemagee

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2008, 06:53:28 PM »
I'm agnostic, so I certainly understand not everyone is christian.

All I'm saying is keep in mind to debate points, not people.  I didn't quote you, or anyone else.  I'm saying from the general direction this thread is headed.

History made me paranoid - i did change my original post - but i just wanted to get my thought on the record for that because it's one of my issues with the current administration and the direction of this country in general that i'm more uncomfortable with than the economy or most other things.



Offline Reality

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2008, 06:57:33 PM »
Cmon now jemagee, you didn't see me posting pictures of Barney Frank in a Laker jersey did you?

jemagee

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2008, 07:00:32 PM »
Cmon now jemagee, you didn't see me posting pictures of Barney Frank in a Laker jersey did you?

Well that would just be disingenuous (sp?)  he's from Massachusets, he'd go and lose if he were a laker fan, cause people would vote that way


Offline Reality

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2008, 07:19:14 PM »
Reality Inc gets product orders from all 50 states and around the globe.
Barney could easily be closet Laker.

Offline westkoast

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2008, 07:51:19 PM »
Reality Inc gets product orders from all 50 states and around the globe.
Barney could easily be closet Laker.

The country is up in the air and all you can think about is the Lakers?  WOW...not the Laker fan, just the general term to describe trying to digest this obsession.

I agree with DB.  Let's not go that route if we can avoid it.  We have to save debating about religion for a later date, like Christmas!  This has been a very good discussion so far. 
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2008, 08:08:29 PM »
Sad isn't it, that all they our elected officials can do is point fingers....  If the situation was as bad as it seems you would thinkwe could have them dragged back in by their ears and locked in until they killed each other or worked something out....either way would be great for our country.
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Ted

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2008, 08:12:01 PM »
Are there other alternatives to the Paulson plan out there?

It seems like most people agree that something has to be done. And it also seems like 9 out of 10 people are against the bailout. What is their alternative? And what do they foresee if the government does nothing and allows the crisis to run its course?
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

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Offline SPURSX3

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2008, 08:26:34 PM »
Are there other alternatives to the Paulson plan out there?

It seems like most people agree that something has to be done. And it also seems like 9 out of 10 people are against the bailout. What is their alternative? And what do they foresee if the government does nothing and allows the crisis to run its course?
 

Is this the new course for our country and it's history, that there be SOME kind of financial turmoil our country must go through and be realized at the end of each President's term in office?  Energy corp melt down during Clinton era and now Wall Street Crumble at the end of Bush.  I have no doubt we will survive this and bounce back.  Howeve, IMO, Washington seems to be playing games with our lives don't you think?  Why not just fix this crisis, why do both sides have to add their own agenda at a time like this?  Then they stand in front of cameras and point fingers at each other like babies?  I was not kidding about letting them kill each other or work this out.  round them up, lock the doors, and make them work for once. 
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Lurker

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2008, 09:57:33 PM »
Are there other alternatives to the Paulson plan out there?

It seems like most people agree that something has to be done. And it also seems like 9 out of 10 people are against the bailout. What is their alternative? And what do they foresee if the government does nothing and allows the crisis to run its course?
 

Is this the new course for our country and it's history, that there be SOME kind of financial turmoil our country must go through and be realized at the end of each President's term in office?  Energy corp melt down during Clinton era and now Wall Street Crumble at the end of Bush.  I have no doubt we will survive this and bounce back.  Howeve, IMO, Washington seems to be playing games with our lives don't you think?  Why not just fix this crisis, why do both sides have to add their own agenda at a time like this?  Then they stand in front of cameras and point fingers at each other like babies?  I was not kidding about letting them kill each other or work this out.  round them up, lock the doors, and make them work for once. 

It is called Rovian politics after Karl Rove.  Divide and conquer.  Easist way to divide is to accuse and put the opponent on the defensive.  Then the public isn't looking at what you are or are not doing.  Deflect any direct questions by attacking again.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: McCain/Obama debate, debate (heh)
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2008, 07:58:36 AM »
We are in a dire crisis per our leaders.  The exact same leaders that are now taking a holiday and not scheduled to meet again until Thursday.  Firefighters and police have to work holidays.  Many people I know who MAKE A LOT LESS MONEY THAN CONGRESSMEN are forced to work holidays if necessary.

WHY NOT CONGRESS?

I urge everyone to contact their representative and/or senator and ask WTF?

http://www.house.gov/

http://www.senate.gov/



It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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