The world currency markets are in a free fall right now

[JoMal]

Ziggy the republicans told me that everything is perfect all around the world when it comes to economies.

Westkoast,
Take this for whatever you think it is worth.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039890722392873.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

It is written by a Brit Mr. Keith Marsden, a fellow of the Centre for Policy Studies, was formerly an adviser at the World Bank and a senior economist in the International Labor Organization. 
The Centre for Policy Studies is a British think tank started in the 1970's by among others Lady Thatcher.
The World Bank you know about.
The International Labor Organization is a UN group focused on international labor rights, hardly of bastion of free market economics.

ziggy, this is a fascinating article and we all greatly appreciate you doing the research to find the good stuff.

But the one thing I do not get is that this article clearly is stating that, under Bush, the U.S. economy is not nearly as bad as thought, especially with the rhetoric of the currrent political campaign, when things get blown out of proportion anyway.

Why is it that I feel much worse off financially now then I did under Clinton, for example?

[Ted]

Why is it that I feel much worse off financially now then I did under Clinton, for example?

Cuz you hate Bush? 

Seriously though. Can you quantify what's making you feel worse? Is it capital losses? Devalued property? Prices?

[JoMal]

Ronald Regan and Richard Nixon.

Well, except for the Iran Contra and the spying on the DNC parts. 

Isn't that what made them

real

Republicans?

[Ted]

Yes JoMal. Yes.

You of all people, with your years of honorable civil service, know that Republicans have cornered the market on political scandal. 

[JoMal]

Why is it that I feel much worse off financially now then I did under Clinton, for example?

Cuz you hate Bush? 

Seriously though. Can you quantify what's make you feel worse? Is it capital losses? Devalued property? Prices?

Capital loses. My 451 investments were free-falling recently till I switched to bond accounts. My home has lost at least $100k in value this decade. Seeing the news that the U.S. dollar is getting stronger against the Euro and the British pound after years of dealing with horrid exchange rates only travellers to those lands would appreciate, is good, but extremely belated news. Plus, on a personal note, the State of California has decided that the best way to cover a 16.5 billion dollar deficit has been on the backs of its government workers, who have not gotten anything close to a decent cost of living raise in twenty years. Oh - and this is on top of paying through the nose for more and more medical each year for less coverage.

By far the worst of this has happened during the Bush years, though the state pay problem is not so much federal but California budget stupidity and has occurred under both political parties.

[JoMal]

Yes JoMal. Yes.

You of all people, with your years of honorable civil service, know that Republicans have cornered the market on political scandal. 

Really, Ted?

Please compare the types of scandals we had under Clinton, which were all pushed to the limits, by, let me think....oh, right - Republican propaganda machines and a biased press, with Iran/Contra and domestic spying, a propaganda-pushed war, the removal of our Constitutional Rights under Bush, and the Christian right's (and stauch supporters of all things Republican) very blatant attempt to ignore the separation of church and state?

With the advent of the Republican Party's attempt to destroy the free press by backing and providing biased news bits to their government-run news station - FoxNews (including discrediting the rest of the news world as clearly being "the biased liberal press"   !!) - their work to create a fascist state where political scandal would never be associated with the Republicans ever again because dissendents would simply "disappear" is close to being accomplished.

[Ted]

Really, Ted?

Please compare the types of scandals we had under Clinton, which were all pushed to the limits, by, let me think....oh, right - Republican propaganda machines and a biased press, with Iran/Contra and domestic spying, a propaganda-pushed war, the removal of our Constitutional Rights under Bush, and the Christian right's (and stauch supporters of all things Republican) very blatant attempt to ignore the separation of church and state?

With the advent of the Republican Party's attempt to destroy the free press by backing and providing biased news bits to their government-run news station - FoxNews (including discrediting the rest of the news world as clearly being "the biased liberal press"   !!) - their work to create a fascist state where political scandal would never be associated with the Republicans ever again because dissendents would simply "disappear" is close to being accomplished.

Wow. You are becoming my political Reality. That's a capital R.

[Ted]

Capital loses.

Yeah, me too. My 401K is big fat poop hole lately. The overseas stuff is fairly solid, and I've gone into some bond stuff. Lots of people at work have moved everything into money markets, but I'm still in a mix of funds, still taking it in the shorts. I'm adopting the long-term approach. Otherwise, I've been fortunate that other areas, real estate, income, etc., have not suffered, but improved in Utah.

Sorry to hear about the Cali budget thing hitting you. That's got to be tough. Hope you see big raises in the future.

[ziggy]

Ziggy the republicans told me that everything is perfect all around the world when it comes to economies.

Westkoast,
Take this for whatever you think it is worth.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039890722392873.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

It is written by a Brit Mr. Keith Marsden, a fellow of the Centre for Policy Studies, was formerly an adviser at the World Bank and a senior economist in the International Labor Organization. 
The Centre for Policy Studies is a British think tank started in the 1970's by among others Lady Thatcher.
The World Bank you know about.
The International Labor Organization is a UN group focused on international labor rights, hardly of bastion of free market economics.

ziggy, this is a fascinating article and we all greatly appreciate you doing the research to find the good stuff.

But the one thing I do not get is that this article clearly is stating that, under Bush, the U.S. economy is not nearly as bad as thought, especially with the rhetoric of the currrent political campaign, when things get blown out of proportion anyway.

Why is it that I feel much worse off financially now then I did under Clinton, for example?

Jomal,
I am not going to take any position on why you feel the way you feel.  For you, you might in fact be worse off, you might be better off but don't want to admit it, or any be in a wide variety of different circumstances.  Feel free to feel however you want about your financial circumstances.

I am in the housing industry, and I know that without a doubt, I am demonstrably worse off financially today than I was 2, 4, 6, and 8 years ago.  My work circumstance the last 16 months has been absolute hell, layoffs for lots of really good people, financial losses everywhere, good family owned companies shuttered, suicides of good people who have lost everything.  We are not at the bottom, and I have still very concerned about the next 12 months.  I hope I am one of those left standing, but I am not quite sure what the future holds.

I am not going to predict the future or some other market timed event.  I am not smart enough, nor do I have enough hubris to believe that my predictions carry any weight, nor do I have any special insight into the future.  I do know what I see, and this economy is not in recession, regardless of what the talking heads may wish to try and tell me.  

Our economy has a number of structural problems, and there are some grave risks out there, but we are no worse off, and probably far better off than a number of the countries of the world.  The Brits, Kiwi's, Italians, Spanish, Japanese, and probably very soon the Aussie's are going to have a housing meltdown that on a scaled basis are going to be far worse than what we are experiencing.  China is not the rosy wonderful growing place we all hear it be.  They have some very choppy waters ahead.  Chile, Argentina, France, Germany, Iceland, South Africa are all teetering.

[JoMal]

Really, Ted?

Please compare the types of scandals we had under Clinton, which were all pushed to the limits, by, let me think....oh, right - Republican propaganda machines and a biased press, with Iran/Contra and domestic spying, a propaganda-pushed war, the removal of our Constitutional Rights under Bush, and the Christian right's (and stauch supporters of all things Republican) very blatant attempt to ignore the separation of church and state?

With the advent of the Republican Party's attempt to destroy the free press by backing and providing biased news bits to their government-run news station - FoxNews (including discrediting the rest of the news world as clearly being "the biased liberal press"   !!) - their work to create a fascist state where political scandal would never be associated with the Republicans ever again because dissendents would simply "disappear" is close to being accomplished.

Wow. You are becoming my political Reality. That's a capital R.

And you, Ted, can only wish you were as politically real as Reality, and that is with much less "capital" then it used to be.  

[jemagee]

Oh, I love when both sides of the aisle vote on whose more scandalous.

They both suck

[westkoast]

Oh, I love when both sides of the aisle vote on whose more scandalous.

They both suck

Yes but since the 90s up until now I think we can agree that the Dem's sucked less 

[JoMal]

Jomal,
I am not going to take any position on why you feel the way you feel.  For you, you might in fact be worse off, you might be better off but don't want to admit it, or any be in a wide variety of different circumstances.  Feel free to feel however you want about your financial circumstances.

I am in the housing industry, and I know that without a doubt, I am demonstrably worse off financially today than I was 2, 4, 6, and 8 years ago.  My work circumstance the last 16 months has been absolute hell, layoffs for lots of really good people, financial losses everywhere, good family owned companies shuttered, suicides of good people who have lost everything.  We are not at the bottom, and I have still very concerned about the next 12 months.  I hope I am one of those left standing, but I am not quite sure what the future holds.

I am not going to predict the future or some other market timed event.  I am not smart enough, nor do I have enough hubris to believe that my predictions carry any weight, nor do I have any special insight into the future.  I do know what I see, and this economy is not in recession, regardless of what the talking heads may wish to try and tell me.  

Our economy has a number of structural problems, and there are some grave risks out there, but we are no worse off, and probably far better off than a number of the countries of the world.  The Brits, Kiwi's, Italians, Spanish, Japanese, and probably very soon the Aussie's are going to have a housing meltdown that on a scaled basis are going to be far worse than what we are experiencing.  China is not the rosy wonderful growing place we all hear it be.  They have some very choppy waters ahead.  Chile, Argentina, France, Germany, Iceland, South Africa are all teetering.

I am very sorry to hear about your own troubles in the housing industry. I can only imagine how bad that must be. On a smaller scale, my wife had the misfortune of going full time into the travel business a year or two before 9/11. Part of our own fiscal issues can be related directly to the loss of clients in her travel business still going on.

I am a bit surprised to hear about how bad it may get elsewhere in the world. As for China, when I kept hearing - around the Olympics - (and from Chinese monetary commentators, don't che know ) that the Chinese economy has had positive growth for an unprecedented twenty years now, the hair on the back of my neck rose up. That just SOUNDED odd - and besides being unprecedented - very dangerous for an economy predicated by complete government control.  

I was in Australia in January of 2007. I was watching local television news one night when a story came on about bank repossessions of privately-owned homes that was going on. Apparently the banks in Australia can simply THROW the owners out if they feel they have defaulted on their loans for JUST TWO MONTHS! The news pundits were calling for reform of the banks to protect the home owners better then that. If nothing has been done between then and now, I can not begin to imagine how a housing meltdown will hit that country.

[JoMal]

Oh, I love when both sides of the aisle vote on whose more scandalous.

They both suck

Yes but since the 90s up until now I think we can agree that the Dem's sucked less 

Actually, westkoast, the Dems were the ones BEING su....oh, I get it now.

[Lurker]

There are several reasons most people feel worse off.  

One has to do with drops in home value.  Although I doubt that JoMal's has dropped as much as he says in 10 years.  My guess is that up until a 2 years ago his house was increasing regularly in value (as was the majority of the 2 coasts).  In fact I seriously doubt anyone who has been in the same house for the last 10+ years can say their house is worth less in 2008 than 1998.  The problem is that people...with the help of the financial industry...kept cashing in the increased equity to propel our economy.  Everyone thought that values would continue to climb - isn't that what "everyone" says.  And many are the same suckers who overbought in the tech bubble of 2000.  

Another reason is buying power.  The government provided inflation figures are as bogus as a $3 bill.  The majority of Americans have faced much higher inflation that the "official" numbers reflect.  Mostly because the everyday purchases (food, medical, energy) have gone up faster than than the once in a blue moon purchases (vehicles, appliances, homes).  The big ticket items have not had the price increases that the everyday consumables have had and the calculations don't weight these factors properly.

One other is psychological.  The average Joe works hard and attempts to save...usually through a employer sponsered 401K/403b/451 plan.  While these plans enjoyed tremendous growth in the early years of Bush's administration the year long collapse in the financial markets have people looking at big losses in the ir retirement plans.  The problem is that they don't look at the 8-10 year return but only what has happened in the past month or quarter.  Then in the midst of their plans' value collapsing they hear about the golden parachutes the architects of these hard times walk away with...very demoralizing.

In many ways ex-Senator Gramm was right...America has become a country of whiners.  We collectively don't believe in working hard, think that we are entitled and think nothing of living beyond our means.  The few who actually believe in the true ideals our country was founded on...hard work, individual responsibility, limited government and freedom...probably feel better about where they are than the majority.