Phil says best athlete was Rodman

[Ted]

Fugging aye!  You continue to get sucked into the line of thinking that Rodman is being compared to MJ as a basketball player.

I promise I'm not.

Again, list all of the things that each of the four players can do physically that employ foot speed, hand-eye coordination, body control (on the ground and in mid-air), leaping ability, strength, endurance, stopping and starting speed, ability to change direction (ALL ASPECTS OF ATHLETIC ABILITY) and Rodman does not compare to Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, or Scottie Pippen.

P.S. You were joking about the jumping technique thing . . . right? 

[Skandery]

Thanks WOW and Ted, it had been a while since I've laughed this hysterically while reading a thread.

Anyways, Ted we're not joking about this athleticism versus skill thing.  You're confusing skill and athleticism.  Now before we get along any further, I understand how eminently easy it is to go on your line of thinking because Jordan, Pippen, and Bryant have amazing athleticism in their own right.  To call Rodman more athletic doesn't discount just how athletic a Michael Jordan is.  Once again Rodman was a freak of nature.  Since I've been feeling in the anecdote mood in this thread I'll throw another one out there. 

I think we can all agree that skillwise, Rodman had many areas that he lacked.  Especially compared to the likes of a Jordan; Rodman's skills, from a purely basketball perspective, are barely worth a mention.  Now realize with his irrefuteably limited skill, he averaged 26 ppg in college at a 64% clip.  And I remember hearing, although I'm finding it hard to find now, he averaged about 38 ppg in high school.  We know for absolute sure he didn't get any of those points because he knew how to shoot (perimeter or free throw), dribble, drive, or anything that required any offensive skill because he displayed none of those attributes throughout his career at the pro level. 

Now granted Ted that basketball IQ (which Rodman was darn near the TOP of the league during his time) and determination (again something he had in spades) can carry someone relatively unskilled a long way.  But if he doesn't have that freakish athleticism, no way he leaves behind that legacy of winning (5 championships, 12/12 playoff seasons) and accomplishment (the greatest rebounder since Russell/Chamberlain's generation).  The melding of hand-eye coordination, balance, strength, composure, athleticism that results in a dribble drive, aerial assault is SKILL.  Rodman couldn't hold Jordan's, Pippen's, or Bryant's jock.  Getting to a looseball first, wrestling away a rebound that isn't rightfully yours, beating someone down court on a dead run, playing the 48th minute harder than the 1st minute, that is freakish athleticism (in Rodman's case, enhanced by determination).               

[Reality]

Reality, 

Athlete:  One who is able-bodied, acrobatic, agonistic, energetic, gymnastic, pancratic, robust, stalwart, strong, vigorous, and vital.  A physical freak of nature.

In addition to acrobatic and gymnastic, (whereupon Rodman was truly owned by Jordan, etc), you mention pancratic.
Pan`crat ic
a. 1. (Opt.) Having all or many degrees of power; having a great range of power; - said of an eyepiece made adjustable so as to give a varying magnifying power.

I'm going to again give true ownage to Jordan.  Are you using a different meaning?

[Ted]

The melding of hand-eye coordination, balance, strength, composure, athleticism that results in a dribble drive, aerial assault is SKILL.  Rodman couldn't hold Jordan's, Pippen's, or Bryant's jock.

We have twisted the connotations of the words skill, atheticism, and ability to the ridiculous point that we're saying the leaping high and far is all about technique. Being an athlete, IMO, is so much more than being strong, having a motor that doesn't quit, and running faster than anyone else your size. If that's what we're saying, and that every other aspect of basketball is a skill, then I agree with you an WoW. Hell, I'll say it so people can sleep tonight: Rodman was stronger, faster, "bouncier", and could outlast anyone. He also had good hands, but there I go again, that's a skill.

Again, I believe that athletic ability encompasses the following:

foot speed
hand-eye coordination
body control (on the ground and in mid-air)
leaping ability
strength
endurance
stopping and starting speed
ability to change direction

These are traits that in some form, you are born with. Trust me, I know. I spent my entire life from age 12 to 26 trying to use these abilities to develop certain skills in the game of basketball. They just aren't there. I still can't dribble nearly as good as I'd like, and I've never been able to dunk, even when I was 6'2" 180 doing plyometrics and wearing those dang jump shoes all the time.

They say white men can't jump; maybe they don't have the right Phys Ed teachers.

Getting to a looseball first, wrestling away a rebound that isn't rightfully yours, beating someone down court on a dead run, playing the 48th minute harder than the 1st minute, that is freakish athleticism (in Rodman's case, enhanced by determination).               

That sounds an awful lot like freakish determination. Can you see how you much those acts look like freakish determination? Again, Rodman may be GOAT in that area.

[JoMal]

First off, in comparing athletic ability, perhaps you all should just consider it this way.

If you had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, and Dennis Rodman all doing the same athletic activity for the first time, which would pick up the skills first?

And pick a sport that has absolulely nothing to do with basketball skills whatsoever.

Lurker and WOW already understand what Jackson was talking about because he was not necessarily talking about playing basketball when he said it.

[Reality]

First off, in comparing atheletic ability, perhaps you all should just consider it this way.

If you had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant, and Dennis Rodman all doing the same atheletic activity for the first time, which would pick up the skills first?

And pick a sport that has absolulely nothing to do with basketball skills whatsoever.

And their picking up those skills first would have everything to do with their superior athletic ability.  Woops can we use the word "ability"?

I think this thread is going to go like the op stated.

No way do i believe this.  I mean I believe Phil was probably correctly quoted, but no way Rodman is a better athlete then Jordan.  I guess we could argue what "athlete" means....

[Ted]

Lurker and WOW already understand what Jackson was talking about because he was not necessarily talking about playing basketball when he said it.

"He could probably play a 48-minute game and play the 48th minute stronger than the first minute of the game,? Jackson told the crowd at UND. ?He was that terrific an athlete."

Sounds like he's talking about basketball--about one very narrow aspect (endurance) of basketball and athleticism. And that is why I disagree. I can't infer much more from that quote.

[Lurker]

Lurker and WOW already understand what Jackson was talking about because he was not necessarily talking about playing basketball when he said it.

?He could probably play a 48-minute game and play the 48th minute stronger than the first minute of the game,? Jackson told the crowd at UND. ?He was that terrific an athlete.?

Sounds like he's talking about basketball--about one very narrow aspect (endurance) of basketball and athleticism. And that is why I disagree. I can't infer much more from that quote.

Maybe the Zen master knows more than he is telling.  Maybe he threw this controversial issue into the cosmos to see how it will play out within the greater consciousness of the universe.  Maybe he was having a hallucengic flashback.  Maybe he was stoned when he said it. 

"Maybe" can be such fun...

[westkoast]

Lurker and WOW already understand what Jackson was talking about because he was not necessarily talking about playing basketball when he said it.

?He could probably play a 48-minute game and play the 48th minute stronger than the first minute of the game,? Jackson told the crowd at UND. ?He was that terrific an athlete.?

Sounds like he's talking about basketball--about one very narrow aspect (endurance) of basketball and athleticism. And that is why I disagree. I can't infer much more from that quote.

Maybe the Zen master knows more than he is telling.  Maybe he threw this controversial issue into the cosmos to see how it will play out within the greater consciousness of the universe.  Maybe he was having a hallucengic flashback.  Maybe he was stoned when he said it. 

"Maybe" can be such fun...

Clearly this is a media mind game to motivate Gasol to be a better rebounder ala Rodman.

[WayOutWest]

Lurker and WOW already understand what Jackson was talking about because he was not necessarily talking about playing basketball when he said it.

?He could probably play a 48-minute game and play the 48th minute stronger than the first minute of the game,? Jackson told the crowd at UND. ?He was that terrific an athlete.?

Sounds like he's talking about basketball--about one very narrow aspect (endurance) of basketball and athleticism. And that is why I disagree. I can't infer much more from that quote.

Maybe the Zen master knows more than he is telling.  Maybe he threw this controversial issue into the cosmos to see how it will play out within the greater consciousness of the universe.  Maybe he was having a hallucengic flashback.  Maybe he was stoned when he said it. 

"Maybe" can be such fun...

Clearly this is a media mind game to motivate Gasol to be a better rebounder ala Rodman.

I thought maybe PJ was threatening Pau with a wedding dress, ala Rodman, if he continued to play like a big girly man.

[Reality]

What do you Barrel Fish gang think about Michael Phelps athleticism vs Rodman?
Oh this should be good. 

[WayOutWest]

What do you Barrel Fish gang think about Michael Phelps athleticism vs Rodman?
Oh this should be good. 

Hmmmm......I wonder what the board thinks about "morons".

[Reality]

Probably about 100 million things.

[Lurker]

What do you Barrel Fish gang think about Michael Phelps athleticism vs Rodman?
Oh this should be good. 

I think Rodman repeatedly showed his athleticism.  I can't say I have seen enough of Phelps to know what type of athleticism he has.

I also think that a fish who calls out the others left in the barrel after being caught, gutted and mounted on a plaque needs counselling.

[Reality]

^^ Fairly backpedalish but nonetheless excellent progress.  Now admitting you dont know how Phelps would do.  Ohh better make that a quote so you won't wiggle.  You don't know "what type of athleticism he has."

I have counseling openings for you at 3, 5 and 7.  Lets get started!