OT - Politics doesn't make sense to me

[jemagee]

I just want topics such as public education to be pushed up higher on the list then abortion.

Talk about a third rail...public education is doom

you can't tell americans what's wrong with their own country, they don't want to hear it, they just want to hear how you are going to make it easier for them, give them more money and make all those bad people in other countries behave

The average amercian sadly is a moron

[westkoast]

I just want topics such as public education to be pushed up higher on the list then abortion.

Talk about a third rail...public education is doom

you can't tell americans what's wrong with their own country, they don't want to hear it, they just want to hear how you are going to make it easier for them, give them more money and make all those bad people in other countries behave

The average amercian sadly is a moron

I watched a part of a documentary where they discussed that the powers that be want public education to be sub par on purpose so that way there are more worker bees to fill the ranks.  After thinking about it (and not being as far disconnected from public school as most on this board) I realized that it sounds a little bit more then just another conspiracy.

Still though a talk about public education effects more people then arguing about abortion.  I think it's safe to assume that a large number of people in this country don't go worrying about abortions constantly through out their life.

[Derek Bodner]

I think most people should want it removed.  Regardless of which way they lean.   I just want topics such as public education to be pushed up higher on the list then abortion.

Doesn't a focus on public education at least partly go towards preventing abortions?

[westkoast]

I think most people should want it removed.  Regardless of which way they lean.   I just want topics such as public education to be pushed up higher on the list then abortion.

Doesn't a focus on public education at least partly go towards preventing abortions?

I really hope your joking here....

[Derek Bodner]

I think most people should want it removed.  Regardless of which way they lean.   I just want topics such as public education to be pushed up higher on the list then abortion.

Doesn't a focus on public education at least partly go towards preventing abortions?

I really hope your joking here....

I was playing to a stereotype, yes.

[JoMal]

Public education is a completely different political problem, which cannot be resolved by throwing more money at it. That seems to be the issue regarding 90% of what people think ails the institution of learning.

With the advent of the Internet, cheating in schools is rampant. Just students using the available tools of the day, you say. If only. They download total passages to include in their reports, or direct answers to questions without learning the material they are sent to school to learn in the first place. Once in college, or worse, in the job market where I get stuck interviewing 29 candidates out of 30 who can not answer basic questions in the field in which they allegedly got their degree, their lack of preparation becomes more obvious.

But that issue does not stop people voting for chunks of money because it is bad PC to diss education by denying more money, apparently, and political pundits know that. LA unified, the second largest school district in the nation, has been losing students annually to other <better> school districts in the area. Schools are underused in the area and projections <what my staff does> are bleak that a turnaround is eminent. Our projections are the basis for additional capital outlay for building and maintaining schools.

So what do they do? They get their local state legislative representatives to pass a law so districts can do their OWN projections, which must be rubberstamped by the appropriate state agency. That would be my unit. Needless to say, their projections are beyond generous in expectations. These bogus projections allows LA Unified to get bond measures on the ballot for additional capital outlay - to build more schools - in a declining enrollment environment because, well, their projections predict a ton of invisible students in the area in the next ten years. And the local voting populance has passed every education bond put up. 

Now, what was that about preventing abortions so, instead, unwanted children can get a mediocre education they have no vested interest in getting?

[westkoast]

Public education is a completely different political problem, which cannot be resolved by throwing more money at it. That seems to be the issue regarding 90% of what people think ails the institution of learning.

I think just the opposite.  Seeing as I haven't been too far removed from public school I have a much different view.  The way they teach classes it feels more like preparing you to be a worker bee then it does for you to really think, learn, and be able to vocalize what you've learned to parents, friends, family, etc.  It's all busy work. 

As for money...ya I do think teachers should be paid a bit more.  Especially considering the ones who really love their job spend a lot of hours outside of the normal class schedule to put things together for their students.  At the same time there are way way way way too many teachers in California who just don't care at all.  They go through the motions and the kids suffer.  If they get called on it then they blame the "classroom size" or their "paycheck".

With the advent of the Internet, cheating in schools is rampant. Just students using the available tools of the day, you say. If only. They download total passages to include in their reports, or direct answers to questions without learning the material they are sent to school to learn in the first place. Once in college, or worse, in the job market where I get stuck interviewing 29 candidates out of 30 who can not answer basic questions in the field in which they allegedly got their degree, their lack of preparation becomes more obvious.

I can tell you it's quicker to cheat now but the way to cheat, by copying word for word from a source, has been around forever.  People use to just go to the local library and copy out of books.  Now they go to google and copy from a digital source.  You will always have cheaters.  Just like you will always have people who truly enjoy learning and go out of their way to really learn. 

One thing that was a problem for me growing up was the closing of the local public library near the school.  We use to actually go there to study and look things up.  Funding dropped and the spot closed down (now it's a frickin knick knack store called something Tuesday).  Now obviously with the internet you don't need to go to the library to look things up but it was a nice place to go to not get distracted. 

And to add one shot to some of the older generations....  I feel as if parents have dropped the ball.  This actually ties into the debate we had a while back about TV, video games, and Internet babysitting children.  Instead of sitting down and actually helping children they are being told "Go look it up on the Internet".  Or if the parents are busy working or whatever else it is they do there is no set times for the kids to sit and do homework.  This really is something I've noticed from friends and family who have children in Jr High or High School.  I'll even go as far to lump my own mother in on this with my youngest brother.  I've seen her do the same thing.

So what do they do? They get their local state legislative representatives to pass a law so districts can do their OWN projections, which must be rubberstamped by the appropriate state agency. That would be my unit. Needless to say, their projections are beyond generous in expectations. These bogus projections allows LA Unified to get bond measures on the ballot for additional capital outlay - to build more schools - in a declining enrollment environment because, well, their projections predict a ton of invisible students in the area in the next ten years. And the local voting populance has passed every education bond put up. 

Ahh the good ol "our classrooms are so jam packed kids are not getting the education they deserve" 

While I agree it is more then just a political thing I still wish there was more discussion about it in general.  Not just when it comes to money but improving how everyone involved does things.  Throwing more money just isn't getting the job done.

[Ted]

Now, what was that about preventing abortions so, instead, unwanted children can get a mediocre education they have no vested interest in getting?

Could you elaborate on that sentence?

[JoMal]

Now, what was that about preventing abortions so, instead, unwanted children can get a mediocre education they have no vested interest in getting?

Could you elaborate on that sentence?

No need to. The implication I was making was the Catch-22 quality of the abortion issue. People who argue against abortion do little to address what to do with the unwanted children, including educating them, while those who favor abortions seem to miss the implications it puts on any society that would condone it.

[JoMal]

I think just the opposite.  Seeing as I haven't been too far removed from public school I have a much different view.  The way they teach classes it feels more like preparing you to be a worker bee then it does for you to really think, learn, and be able to vocalize what you've learned to parents, friends, family, etc.  It's all busy work. 

As for money...ya I do think teachers should be paid a bit more.  Especially considering the ones who really love their job spend a lot of hours outside of the normal class schedule to put things together for their students.  At the same time there are way way way way too many teachers in California who just don't care at all.  They go through the motions and the kids suffer.  If they get called on it then they blame the "classroom size" or their "paycheck".

Most people who chose to teach did so because they at least initially found satisfaction in the institution of learning in the first place. The disallusionment came later. The underlying causes of it would not be evident in the faces of the teachers you refer to as not caring. But knowing several teachers, plus my wife taught high school for a while, you find a combination of factors playing out that includes disruptive kids who CANNOT BE TOUCHED, DISCIPLINED, OR HELD BACK, my emphasis being that the teachers are usually found to be at fault first if a student assaults them, insults them, throws things at them, ignores them, or text messages their friends instead of learn from them. Parents are the real problem, followed by a lack of rewards for the teachers, who constantly have to attend refresher courses to maintain their tenure.

And all those State Propositions that get passed by California voters, like PROP 98, which now makes education a guaranteed percentage of the State Budget each year, with guaranteed increases, even in deficit years such as this one, which makes it damned near impossible to pass a decent and fair budget every year.

I can tell you it's quicker to cheat now but the way to cheat, by copying word for word from a source, has been around forever.  People use to just go to the local library and copy out of books.  Now they go to google and copy from a digital source.  You will always have cheaters.  Just like you will always have people who truly enjoy learning and go out of their way to really learn. 

Except before, you would still have to write down the passage OUT of the book, instead of copying it and pasting it right off the Internet. By writing it out, as least you would have to read it a bit. The Internet allows plagerism to flourish with any such limitations.

"So what do they do? They get their local state legislative representatives to pass a law so districts can do their OWN projections, which must be rubberstamped by the appropriate state agency. That would be my unit. Needless to say, their projections are beyond generous in expectations. These bogus projections allows LA Unified to get bond measures on the ballot for additional capital outlay - to build more schools - in a declining enrollment environment because, well, their projections predict a ton of invisible students in the area in the next ten years. And the local voting populance has passed every education bond put up." 

Ahh the good ol "our classrooms are so jam packed kids are not getting the education they deserve" 

While I agree it is more then just a political thing I still wish there was more discussion about it in general.  Not just when it comes to money but improving how everyone involved does things.  Throwing more money just isn't getting the job done.

Too bad the voters do not actually take a look inside those LA unified classrooms to see just how 'jam packed' they are.

[jemagee]

Teachers aren't paid enough or given enough respect for choosing teaching
no child left behind is a crock of crap
determining school funding based on standardized testing results means that schools just teach the testing
There's so many things wrong with US education it's kind of sad, and it's not just public schools, colleges are getting fracked up too...
funding based on propety taxes just propagates bad schools (though I was a beneficiary of such a thing growing up in pennsylvania)

Then again, there's the whole, abortion crime rate thing

[Ted]

Thanks JoMal, I understand what you're implying now.

Abortion is a tough issue for me, partly because of how I was raised, but also because I can see the reason behind some of the arguments for abortion. There is one, though, that I cannot comprehend, and that is

unwanted = unworthy of a chance at life

or

unwanted = won't be educated, so doesn't deserve to live

Oversimplified? Yes. But I hear it all the time. On the other hand, the pro-life lobby far too often says "don't do it," but rarely says here's this option. Someone needs to help people understand their options.

Still, I also don't buy into the "no options" bullcrap some people spew. It's quite easy to put a newborn baby up for adoption these days. There are all kinds of family service agencies ready to help. Finding an unwanted child a home is not that hard.

[Reality]

^^ Thank goodness a lot of communities are enacting an immunity policy, that being come in and give birth at a clinic or firestation with trained paramedics or even a Plan B (a distant B) being drop off a newborn at a firestation etc and no questions will be asked.

Plan A would most def be pre arrange adoption in advance thus get all the pre natal care mother needs. 

[jemagee]

Still, I also don't buy into the "no options" bullcrap some people spew. It's quite easy to put a newborn baby up for adoption these days. There are all kinds of family service agencies ready to help. Finding an unwanted child a home is not that hard.

Bull

[Ted]

Bull

Wow you just totally destroyed my argument. I'm speechless.