OT: What happend to being a parent?

[westkoast]

First of all....no knock to the parents around here.  If you teach your kid right from wrong, learn how to change the station when something that is meant for adults comes on,  and educated them (along with the other givens) then I am not speaking about you.

Something I've noticed over the past couple of years is that us Americans are getting lazy when it comes to parenting.  Some parents are not being blamed for things like Columbine, the media and tv are.  Some parents are not being blamed for violence their children commit, music is.  Those same parents wont take the time out to hide their porno or liqour stash or even bother to make sure what their kids are watching or listening too...yet they are the first ones in line to give their vote/backing to the government so they can do it.  What happend to being in full control of raising your child?  What happend to shouldering the blame because you spend more time working then you do with your kid?  Whats with all the passing of the buck thats going on?  Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that certain people who claim to be parents are doing a half-a'd job?  Instead of parents not letting their children listen to a show like Kevin and Bean in the morning....they want the FCC to limit it for EVERYONE with the smokescreen its for the children (Just an example).  How is that fair to us who are not children and still enjoy some of the stuff they want to censor?

The thread would like to hear from you!

[Ted]

First of all....no knock to the parents around here.  If you teach your kid right from wrong, learn how to change the station when something that is meant for adults comes on,  and educated them (along with the other givens) then I am not speaking about you.

Something I've noticed over the past couple of years is that us Americans are getting lazy when it comes to parenting.  Some parents are not being blamed for things like Columbine, the media and tv are.  Some parents are not being blamed for violence their children commit, music is.  Those same parents wont take the time out to hide their porno or liqour stash or even bother to make sure what their kids are watching or listening too...yet they are the first ones in line to give their vote/backing to the government so they can do it.  What happend to being in full control of raising your child?  What happend to shouldering the blame because you spend more time working then you do with your kid?  Whats with all the passing of the buck thats going on?  Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that certain people who claim to be parents are doing a half-a'd job?  Instead of parents not letting their children listen to a show like Kevin and Bean in the morning....they want the FCC to limit it for EVERYONE with the smokescreen its for the children (Just an example).  How is that fair to us who are not children and still enjoy some of the stuff they want to censor?

The thread would like to hear from you!

Are you saying we should NOT ask the government to raise our children? Are you saying that parents should take full responsibility for the rearing of their children and not leave it up to the public schools or to the government? Are you saying many of today's social ills (violence, underage drugs, alcohol, sex) are the result of the breakdown of the family; i.e., bad parenting?

Dang, you almost sound conservative! But then again, maybe this isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue. Maybe it's just human common sense.

Seriously. I agree with you westkoast. A wise man once said, "No other success can compensate for failure in the home." My kid is only one year old, so I can't claim to be a good or bad parent. But I am sure as hell going to be around enough and ask enough questions to know what is going on.  

[WayOutWest]

Ted,

You should see South Park the movie, I am SOOOOO not joking about that.  I'm not sure if I should give away the story line but you'll be surprised at the amazing underlying lesson of that filthy movie.  Everything westkoast mentioned is addressed and sadly and truthfully answered in one 20 second scene in the movie.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT watch that movie with in earshot of children.  South Park is one of the most "in touch" programs on TV, while alot of the episodes are just for low brow laughs there are some poiniant (sic?) lessons and social issue brought up in the show.  People just can't get past the language, serves closed minded people right in that regard, probably a concious effect created by the shows producers.

[westkoast]

First of all....no knock to the parents around here.  If you teach your kid right from wrong, learn how to change the station when something that is meant for adults comes on,  and educated them (along with the other givens) then I am not speaking about you.

Something I've noticed over the past couple of years is that us Americans are getting lazy when it comes to parenting.  Some parents are not being blamed for things like Columbine, the media and tv are.  Some parents are not being blamed for violence their children commit, music is.  Those same parents wont take the time out to hide their porno or liqour stash or even bother to make sure what their kids are watching or listening too...yet they are the first ones in line to give their vote/backing to the government so they can do it.  What happend to being in full control of raising your child?  What happend to shouldering the blame because you spend more time working then you do with your kid?  Whats with all the passing of the buck thats going on?  Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that certain people who claim to be parents are doing a half-a'd job?  Instead of parents not letting their children listen to a show like Kevin and Bean in the morning....they want the FCC to limit it for EVERYONE with the smokescreen its for the children (Just an example).  How is that fair to us who are not children and still enjoy some of the stuff they want to censor?

The thread would like to hear from you!

Are you saying we should NOT ask the government to raise our children? Are you saying that parents should take full responsibility for the rearing of their children and not leave it up to the public schools or to the government? Are you saying many of today's social ills (violence, underage drugs, alcohol, sex) are the result of the breakdown of the family; i.e., bad parenting?

Dang, you almost sound conservative! But then again, maybe this isn't a liberal vs. conservative issue. Maybe it's just human common sense.

Seriously. I agree with you westkoast. A wise man once said, "No other success can compensate for failure in the home." My kid is only one year old, so I can't claim to be a good or bad parent. But I am sure as hell going to be around enough and ask enough questions to know what is going on.

For some reason I have a big problem with being old enough to serve in the army, pay taxes, and handle a weapon.....but not being allowed to hear morning talk show hosts make sexual ineundos (sp?) without having the chance to be taken off the air.  Why are lazy parents who cant seem to worry about their own kids backing laws that would almost parent people who are grown.

Random situation #1, Poppa heard Momma come home and rushed out of his room with the x-rated version of the "Passion of the Christ" only to return to see Nick Nineyearold having bad images burnt into his mind.   Now logically, you think if Poppa wasn't thinking with his small brain his son wouldnt be exposed to it.  I guess some people see it differently.  Im starting to believe we are getting too retarded as a whole to look over ourselves.

Really tho.....if your fellow repub cant clean up Iraq fall back to cleaning up America to help shift heat from your party.

[Lurker]

Really tho.....if your fellow repub cant clean up Iraq fall back to cleaning up America to help shift heat from your party.

And this is what it all comes down to....the Bush agenda.  I have decided that Janet Jackson is really a secretive Bush operative.  The whole Super Bowl thing was staged by the Republicans.  After 9/11 we attacked Afghanistan.  People were happy & strongly behind the president's moves.  Then the war started to bog down and become messy in a PR point of view.

So, we invade Iraq.  Media & national focus shifts away from the cave to cave battling in Afghanistan to the chase for Saddam.  Now that Bush's vendetta is bogging down again, Americans are dying and no peace is in sight the administration has to find new diversions for the American people.

First they attack gay marriage.   Not surprising at all that the dividing line on this issue is very much along conservative, Moral Majority lines.   Now the push for pornography.  Again an issue that divides the country along the same lines.  

Bush is setting up this election to be one of the Moral Majority vs the rest of the country.  And hoping that the rest of the country will be fractionalized (?) enough so that the extreme conservatives & war mongers can give GW another four years of unabashed power.  If Bush is re-elected be very afraid of your privacy and rights...they will continue to erode over the next 4 years.  And maybe longer if GW can get enough of the judiciary replaced.

[Joe Vancil]

Actually, I think this really boils down to two failed philosophies - the conservative Republican one and the liberal Democratic one.

If you follow the mainstream Republican philosophy, folks have a societal moral responsibility, and because many folks fail in that responsibility, then as a person, you have to pick that up, and the best way to do that is by passing laws.  If a country supports terrorists, you invade the country.  If people display obscene materials, you pass local ordinances prohibiting it.  If a radio show is obscene, you try to censor it and force it off the air.  And if you need help - TOUGH.  If you want something for yourself, get it for yourself by yourself.

If you follow the mainstream Democratic philosophy, folks have the freedom to do as they wish, with few responsibilities for anyone other than themselves.  You should pursue your freedom of expression, even if others find it obscene, because that's their hang-up - not yours.  And if someone else is pursing a different philosophy, you should let them.  You should choose to be the most enlightened person in the world;  you can do no wrong if you don't believe that what you're doing is wrong.  And the government should help you reach that enlightenment, by providing you the means, opportunity, and if necessary, financial backing.

These are both FAILED philosophies.  

Personally, I like the following philosophy:

I am a citizen of both the United States and the world.  I should consider myself a citizen of each, and as a result, I have a responsibility to each.  The search is not for "enlightment," but for knowledge and education.  Respect for others is paramount, but not at the expense of the innocent or helpless.  In such case, a truly "enlightened" person should act rather than accept the status quo.  "Personal choice" does not exist when it affects other people, and in such case, the law should be one of respect rather than one of individual freedom.  Freedom of choice does not excuse one from the responsibility of consequence.

Neither party would agree with that philosophy.  Republicans would have less trouble with it - but they would shy away from allowing me to choose my own enlightenment, and would see little value in knowledge unless it can be applied.  Democrats would hate the philosophy because it encourages my influence in the lives of others, and because "individual freedom" is constrained by my responsibilities, which doesn't give me freedom to pursue "anything."

Republicans don't understand individuality.  Democrats don't understand restraint.  As a result, neither understand RESPECT.  And the only place where they reverse their position is on religion.  Why?  Because religion teaches the conformity that Republicans like, so they see it as a friend, and it teaches that some things aren't acceptable, and the Democrats see that as an enemy.

I'm definitely more Republican than Democrat, because I simply can't get past the idea of "Well, if no one else will take care of it, then *I* will."
 

[westkoast]

Joe,

Good point and I do agree that in a sense it does break down how you put it (at least partially I dont agree 100%).....however do you not agree that a few things they are trying to do are a little extreme?  Like the whole porn thing and all this FCC bs for example.  Do adults really need to be held back from adult content on tv/radio and do they really need to be held back from porn?  Do laws need to be passed for EVERYONE with the smoke screen 'its for the children'....when parents are perfectly capable of seeing what the kid is watching/listening too and changing the channel on them?

You may have a problem with people handling certain things themselves......but when it comes to their children I believe that the parent should be 100% in control.  They should take time out to police their own children and not back agenda's that will also police grown men and women.  Like I said before, why is it that we are old enough to handle weapons, pay taxes, and serve in the army....yet we are not old enough to listen/watch things we enjoy.  I believe it comes down to certain parents being lazy.....its much easier to sign a petition or fill out a card then it is to be a real parent 24/7.

[Joe Vancil]

It's not a question of whether I agree with it or not - at least to the Republican party.  It's a question of doing it because it needs to be done and the people who are supposed to be doing it AREN'T.  The argument then becomes "if it needs to be done, and nobody wants to do it themselves, let the government do it."

Personally, *YES*, I think something has to be done.  I simply differ in what I think needs to be done.  I think it's time we throw of the policy of appeasing the constituency and fine the people who are supposed to be responsible.  In the case of kids, that means their parents.  THEN you'll see a more serious job of parenting being done.

The Democratic approach has failed - it produces kids without conscience.  The Republican folks violates the rights of adults.  Personally, given the choice, I'm for violating the rights of the adults who have shirked their responsibility.  It's my equivalent of saying, "If you can't play nice with your toys, I'm taking them away from you."

Of course, I regard that (the Republican) approach as a last resort.  First, threaten punishment.  Then punish.  *THEN* remove privilege.

[WayOutWest]

It's my equivalent of saying, "If you can't play nice with your toys, I'm taking them away from you."

That's the problem Joe.  

Why should I be punished because spursfan101 can't raise his kids?

Why should I be punished because Ted doesn't agree with the manner in which I raise my kids?  

Who makes the decision on how are you supposed to play with YOUR toys?  

How about how I'm supposed to play with MY toys.

That line of thinking just doesn't work and it's quite dangerous IMO.

[Lurker]

It's my equivalent of saying, "If you can't play nice with your toys, I'm taking them away from you."

That's the problem Joe.  

Why should I be punished because spursfan101 can't raise his kids?

Why should I be punished because Ted doesn't agree with the manner in which I raise my kids?  

Who makes the decision on how are you supposed to play with YOUR toys?  

How about how I'm supposed to play with MY toys.

That line of thinking just doesn't work and it's quite dangerous IMO.

Or to put it in Clintonesque....define "nice".

[westkoast]

It's not a question of whether I agree with it or not - at least to the Republican party.  It's a question of doing it because it needs to be done and the people who are supposed to be doing it AREN'T.  The argument then becomes "if it needs to be done, and nobody wants to do it themselves, let the government do it."

Personally, *YES*, I think something has to be done.  I simply differ in what I think needs to be done.  I think it's time we throw of the policy of appeasing the constituency and fine the people who are supposed to be responsible.  In the case of kids, that means their parents.  THEN you'll see a more serious job of parenting being done.

The Democratic approach has failed - it produces kids without conscience.  The Republican folks violates the rights of adults.  Personally, given the choice, I'm for violating the rights of the adults who have shirked their responsibility.  It's my equivalent of saying, "If you can't play nice with your toys, I'm taking them away from you."

Of course, I regard that (the Republican) approach as a last resort.  First, threaten punishment.  Then punish.  *THEN* remove privilege.

Ok but I wasn't playing playing with my toys bad...someone else was.  Why should my freedom to watch and listen what I please be taken away from me because someone else is in the wrong?  Just like I have the choice to watch it.....parents have the choice to switch the station.  Its quite easy really, everytime I hear something I dont like (IE Usher) I switch the station.  If they think its too over the top then switch the station.  I think the  'too busy' parent needs to take their face out of the palm pilot and watch the kid they  brought into this world.  We do have things like the V-chip and parental locks to keep kids out of stuff when the parent isnt around also.  Replacing the old tradition of sitting your kid down and talking to your kid with some gadget that costs money is easy too.  At least then I dont have to be restricted from what I choose to listen to or watch. No need for the republicans to try force anything else on the US these past 2 years :lol:  They met their quota for the term last year.

By all means slap warnings after the commercial breaks, take porn off the internet, and lag every damn live event in America.........but dont tell a grown man or woman what they can or cannot do when they are not hurting anyone.

[Joe Vancil]

Valid points, guys.  Show me an alternative.  Show me a way I can punish ONLY the irresponsible, and then back it.  But given that I take the human race as being reasonably intelligent, if I see something where people say, "It's not my place or my job," then I'm all for increasing their stake in it - because it's stupidity to simply stand by and watch something bad happen and not care about it.

The fact is that if nothing else, the Republican philosophy will get people looking for other, better solutions - if only because it causes people inconvenience.  I've always found inconvenience to be a major motivator.

 

[westkoast]

Valid points, guys.  Show me an alternative.  Show me a way I can punish ONLY the irresponsible, and then back it.  But given that I take the human race as being reasonably intelligent, if I see something where people say, "It's not my place or my job," then I'm all for increasing their stake in it - because it's stupidity to simply stand by and watch something bad happen and not care about it.

The fact is that if nothing else, the Republican philosophy will get people looking for other, better solutions - if only because it causes people inconvenience.  I've always found inconvenience to be a major motivator.

The alternate solution to being a lazy parent is forking out money to purchase technology like the v-chip that can limit adult tv shows.  Heck even all the digital cable companies offer some kind of parental controls on the box.  Better yet dont even spend money....hit the clicker or move the knob on the radio.  That is of course if you are much too busy :rolleyes: to educate your child.  Hiding things from them only makes them more curious.

I don't buy this bs that parents are trying their darnest to educate and watch over their children but tv, music, and movies are overpowering the parents.  I was raised being able to listen to what I wanted (which was anything from NWA to Metallica) and being able to watch any movie I wanted.  You dont see me going out and shooting people, selling crack, or selling my soul to the devil.  Why?  Because I was taught right from wrong.

Besides, why is it always blamed on those things I listed above?  What happend to people just being crazy? :lol:

[WayOutWest]

Valid points, guys.  Show me an alternative.  Show me a way I can punish ONLY the irresponsible, and then back it.  But given that I take the human race as being reasonably intelligent, if I see something where people say, "It's not my place or my job," then I'm all for increasing their stake in it - because it's stupidity to simply stand by and watch something bad happen and not care about it.

The fact is that if nothing else, the Republican philosophy will get people looking for other, better solutions - if only because it causes people inconvenience.  I've always found inconvenience to be a major motivator.

Here's a solution, keep your nose (the gov not the bear) out of my personal buisness.  If you want to push your own personal religious gay bashing agenda onto the constitution, put it to a vote and let the people speak.

If I'm paying for something, (i.e. cable TV, satellite radio, internet etc...) don't tell me what I can or can't pay for since I'm responsible enough to make money I should be responsible enough to make my own decisions.  Obviously there are laws in place that would limit what should or should not be available, if I indirectly break those laws by paying for it's existance (i.e. child porn) then I should be punished.  I should NOT be punished or restricted in my choices because of someone else's lack of responsibility or lack of common sense.

Case in point, some religious nuts thought it would be a good idea to put the Easter bunny through a mock beating as portrayed in "The Passion of Christ".  That was stupid but I wouldn't be stupid enough to let my kids watch.  I would have just took my kids and walked away because THAT'S MY JOB! If some church nuts want to play beat the bunny that's their right, it's my right to walk away NOT to prevent them from being STUPID!

Joe V is YOUR responsibility Joe V, not mine, not Ted's, not Randy and especially not G-Dumb-ya Bush's responsibility.

[JoMal]

Apparently, one of the inherent freedoms of this country is to allow people here the freedom to be and act stupid.

What are the majority of people watching on TV these days? Reality shows. Why? Because they are cheap for networks to produce and for some reason the people watching them feel better about themselves by feeling superior to the individuals depicted on these shows. Talk about indicative of the self-image of most Americans! I would love to hear what a shrink would make of their popularity in regards to the people drawn to watch them.

Nothing of late has given me the creeps more then the growth of this type of television show. It is the old, sinking to the lowest level of society phenomenon that continues to drag down American society, regardless of the "hands off" approach of the Republicans, but the more morally domineering, or the "hands on" approach of the Democrats, who like to think they know what's best in about the most condescending fashion pcssible. Both consider Americans pretty stupid to begin with, so they fill their heads with nonsense, knowing they will generally buy into it because not to requires them to think about the issues more then a six minute sound bite allows.

Once the average American does his part in consuming sixty percent of all world resources, what does HE care how the government, regardless of which party blew enough smoke up his ass in the last election, is telling him what to think about it?

It breeds an American who holds contempt for the world, contempt for each other, a righteousness of his own beliefs as opposed to whomever the Government has told them is evil, be it Gays who want to marry, producers of sex and violence on TV (as long as they are not big campaign distributors), parents who disipline their children, parents who allow their children to do whatever they want, parents who don't try hard enough, parents who let the schools raise their children any way they want, parents who complain to school boards for TRYING to fill the void left by the parents themselves who neglect their own children in the first place, parents who leave their children unattended in parked cars or sidewalks, unwed parents, wed individuals who chose NOT to have children, parents who chose to have too many children. This list is endless.

All we have to remember is that it is our duty as Americans, as taught by our peers, our television shows, our government, our schools, and most importantly our parents, to hate someone else. Find that acceptible group out there that fills your void. Or at least who you can blame for whatever you don't want to take responsibility for failing at yourself.