Author Topic: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?  (Read 7880 times)

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 08:51:48 AM »
AMateurs have wont ehe main event the past few years since the advent of the TV WSOP popularity...I think there's money out there to make some sort of 'pro poker' tour in the vein of the pro golf tour where you have 'q school' and sponsors...i don't like televised poker cause mainly it just focuses on the 'all ins'

I totally missed your post early on.  There is a professional poker tour.  I think it's the US Poker Tour or something.  You have to qualify or get voted in.  Winning a major Poker event like WSOP or WPT gets you a one year card to play on the tour.  It does not get televised much.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
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"Not his story"

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jemagee

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 08:59:46 AM »
Interesting, thanks for letting me know that.  I know Fox does their 'superstars invitational' thing, but I don't like the way it's run...

Is the WPT still run it's hard to tell if Travel is dropping new episodes or just rerunning old ones.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 09:47:57 AM »
Interesting, thanks for letting me know that.  I know Fox does their 'superstars invitational' thing, but I don't like the way it's run...

Is the WPT still run it's hard to tell if Travel is dropping new episodes or just rerunning old ones.

WPT got moved to GSN.  They just wrapped up the new Season 4? episodes in Sept. 

SPOILER:

































































The highlight of season 4 was a woman winning an open tournament title.  "Min the Master"'s wife won it.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 04:00:10 PM »
Quote
You are defending a hand that had ONE card to a strait?  If that is the case you will not be able to understand anything I post about poker.
You're thinking of a Jackpot hand, where both hole cards have to play.  This was in the WSOP tournament.  You only need one hole card to play.  Thus if after a flop you have 4 cards to an up and down straight, so be it.  Her straight dominated his set of 5s 71% to 22% with the remaining 7% being a chance of tie.  He completely sucked out.  Hitting his boat had zero to do with skill.  Nor was she bluffing after the turn.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 04:11:18 PM by Reality »

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2008, 04:27:28 PM »
Your reading comprehension is really bad.

You're thinking of a Jackpot hand, where both hole cards have to play.  This was in the WSOP tournament.  You only need one hole card to play.  Thus if after a flop you have 4 cards to an up and down straight, so be it.

Nobody is talking jackpot, in fact I'm not even talking about tournaments, I am telling you basic poker strategy that applies to all forms of poker.   I'm talking about playing with SKILL, which is the issue YOU brought up when you mentioned "suck out".  She was playing for a strait with ONE card in her hand, do you even understand what that means?  Read any book or talk to any REAL player and maybe you will understand the DANGER of making a strait with ONE card, there is only ONE strait where that is a safe play. 

PLEASE DON'T TRY TO EXPLAIN POKER TO ME.
 
Her straight dominated his set of 5s 71% to 22% with the remaining 7% being a chance of tie.  He completely sucked out.

FYI, those odds are easy to calculate when you see both hold cards and ESPN does you the favor of posting the numbers.  I bet you can't even calculate the true odds if you didn't know what she was holding.  I'll make it simple, not knowing her hole cards what "danger" hands do you need to take into account?  I'll make it even simplier, how many "danger" hands are out there?

Back to your ESPN data provided example.....how much money was in the pot?  How much money did he have to pay to call?  Better or worse than 3.5 to 1?

PLEASE DON'T TRY TO EXPLAIN POKER TO ME.
 
Hitting his boat had zero to do with skill.

Zero skill sucking out a strait on the turn.  ZERO.  What is your point?

PLEASE DON'T TRY TO EXPLAIN POKER TO ME.
 
Nor was she bluffing after the turn.

WHO SAID THAT?  I know I didn't, why do you feel the need to try and deflect the argument?  I said she bluffed on the flop.  I don't know why you would post that unless you are being a dancing-spinning-weasel out-fairy again.

So lets recap:

Pre-flop: 5/5 winner
Flop: 5/5/ winner
Turn: K/7 winner
River: 5/5/ winner

Mini-recap:
Turn: K/7 suck out
River: 5/5 suck out

FYI: that hand was not even K/7, it was actually 8/7 suited vs 5/5, which is a TOTALLY different discussion.

PLEASE DON'T TRY TO EXPLAIN POKER TO ME.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 04:31:28 PM »
what was the bet after the draw?
after the flop?

compared to after the turn?

Please try to stay on topic.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 04:37:05 PM »
what was the bet after the draw?
after the flop?

compared to after the turn?

Please try to stay on topic.

I discussed YOUR post point by point, almost sentence by sentence and you respond with that post?

Way to chicken out Reality. 

OWNED!
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2008, 04:50:00 PM »
what was the bet after the draw?
after the flop?

compared to after the turn?

Please try to stay on topic.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 08:48:08 PM »
Please try to stay on topic.

I discussed YOUR post POINT by POINT, almost sentence by sentence and you respond with that post?

Way to chicken out Reality. 

OWNED!
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2008, 06:21:32 AM »
You saw the replay again, so why don't YOU post what their bets were?
8/7 suited for her makes her starting hand better then his, albiet barely and you were babbling with the belief that she had a K7, which still did not change the flop that much and certainly not the turn.

After the flop my recollection is she bet 100K, which my rec is at that point was not a huge bet relative to her chip stack.  That you and KobeeBoi want to term her play "bluff" -whatever.  At this point perhaps but only 55-45 with 2 more cards to go.  The key point here is he did not raise one iota.  As to his chip stack, i believe the 100K was relatively small for him also,  I think their stacks were somewhat equal.  Either way it was not a huge bet for either one of them, and it's hardly central to the real discussion, that beging after the turn.

At the turn she hit her up n down straight and had him dominated 77% to 22%.   You can babble all you want about "was he 3.5 to 1" etc, his arse was beaten badly.  The difference?  She now bets ALL IN, not a small 100K but ALL IN.  Are you reading this?  It's a completely different bet then the post flop 100K.  Your KobeeBoy went all in on 22% with one card to go and sucked out, pure and simple.  For him and you to be beating your chests and your approving of his self-adjulizing "No one brluffs da G-Man Kobeeboy"....what a joke.  He misplayed badly and sucked out.  77-22 with only the river remaining is a pretty major suck out.  His hitting his third 5 on the turn does make his bet understandable, but he still sucked.

I hate laptop keyboards.  That and your failing to post the replay is the only reason i didn't answer sooner.  Sorry.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2008, 12:22:35 PM »
You saw the replay again, so why don't YOU post what their bets were?
8/7 suited for her makes her starting hand better then his, albiet barely and you were babbling with the belief that she had a K7, which still did not change the flop that much and certainly not the turn.

YOU posted it was K/7 RIGHT?!?!  I had not seen that show yet so I went by what YOU posted.  I guess I should have known you were WRONG and didn't know squat about what YOU were posting about.  This really makes me not want to spend anymore time if you are going to post abolute bull shit in regards to me being in the wrong because YOU posted the wrong hand.  YOU are the one who posted it was K/7 and I gave you my analysis about that hand and the way it was played.  You then tell me I'm babbling?

One more time:

5/5 is BETTER than K/7
5/5 is BETTER than 8/7
K/7 unsuited is NOT a hand you should normally play.
8/7 suited is a hand you should normally play (especially against A/A or K/K)
K/7 or 8/7 is the same vs 5/5 but there are SEVERAL differences why one hand is played and the other should not (I wont waste my time explaining why).

I'm done with this and with you regarding serious poker on the board, just like I've been done discussing serious b-ball on this board with you for a long time.  Rather than have a serious discussion you want to get into stupid Kobe talk and show your bitter spurned man love for Kobe in every post.  You posted the hands and I went by what you posted and you say I'm babbling.  OK I GET IT.  ::)
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2008, 05:06:40 PM »

FYI: that hand was not even K/7, it was actually 8/7 suited vs 5/5, which is a TOTALLY different discussion.


Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2008, 05:57:53 PM »
FYI: that hand was not even K/7, it was actually 8/7 suited vs 5/5, which is a TOTALLY different discussion.

Hopefully you have turned stupid off so lets discuss the difference between those two hands.

K/7 off suit.  What are you trying to do with that hand?  There are some many dangers playing that hand. 

They are not connected so your strait possibilities are very limited unless you use only one card.  Like I posted before a ONE card strait is dangerous because in EVERY case but one you can be up against a bigger strait.  So right off the bat the 7 can NOT make a nut strait.  Only if your K makes an Ace high strait are you safe but you do not enter a hand expecting to make a one hand strait that is the nuts.

They are not suited so you will have to make a one card flush.  7 high flush is dangerous, especially if you need four board cards to make it.  K high flush is pretty safe but again there is a danger if you need four cards on the board to make it.  If they are suited you are ONLY going for the flush and that is a safer play but still not a hand I would play unless I'm running hot, in late position, one of the blinds, or playing "limit" poker.

Hit your K and you have kicker problems.

Hit you 7 and you proably have bigger pair problems.

So the only real positives of playing those cards is to hit two pair or a set which is highly unlikely and is more like gambling than playing.  Yes you need to gamble and/or get lucky to win big tourneys but I try to play tourneys like I play cash games.  If I'm going to gamble I gamble to try and hit the nuts not the 2nd nuts or two pair.

8/7 suited is totally different and one of my fav hands.

If nobody has opened the pot you have to raise with that hand to try and eliminate any other flush chasers pre-flop.  That way you will be up against bigger cards and you can play the board accordingly.  If the pot has already been opened then just call.

They are connected so you can use the cards to hit 5 straits and 3 of them are the nuts, if you use both cards to make the strait they are all the nuts except one.  My abosolute favorite non-paird hole cards are J/10 suited or not.  Any strait you make with those cards is the nuts.

They are suited so you only need 3 board cards to make your flush.  Unless you make your flush on the flop you can probably chase out non-flush hands with a 4 card flush on the board.  If three suited cards hit the flop, anyone holding a big card of that suit will be hard to get rid off on the flop, it's easier to chase them out on the turn if another flush card doesn't come.

Same benefits apply to 8/7 as they do to K/7 as far as non-strait or non-flush plays.  The nice thing about 8/7 or 9/8 suited is when they hit they typically don't help your oppenets who are prbably playing big cards.  Small suited connecters are A/A and K/K killers, thats why I like to play them.

There were so many bs "suck outs" in that show I think the only reason you focused on this one was because the guy was wearing a Lakers jersey.  Who give a fugg?  It's poker, dumb is dumb, lucky is lucky, doesn't matter who's doing it.  Most pro's, and ALL amatuers, would have played it the same way.

"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Reality

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2008, 10:54:57 AM »
One more time:


5/5 is BETTER than 8/7
But it isn't.  Look it up using a non Laker Math calculator.  Plus you stated its a hand one should play.  So she did.  Are you going to squirm around my point that he thus had NO reason to babble about "You downt bruff da G-Man"?

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: OT - Anybody a fan of the WSOP?
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2008, 10:56:01 AM »
OK....this poker talk got me geeked into going to Commerce and it was like "it was meant to be" type of thing.

I was playing 100 buy in no limit with 3/5 blinds.  First hour I'm up and down 40 bucks and finally lose my remaining stack stack with K/K losing to A/10 off.  >:(

Next two hours I'm back to +60 with a 260 dollar stack.  I'm thinking to myself if my stack gets over 300 I'm leaving up 100.  I won a pretty good pot with an A/Q and started counting my chips and didn't notice I was the big blind and I got dealt so I had to post it because I didn't want to be the a-hole that leaves after winning a big pot.  At that moment I had $342 bucks.  The table is full, nobody has called the blind but then late middle position raised to 10 bucks.  Everyone folds except the small blind who calls.  I look at my cards and it's 6/7 clubs so I call.

Flop: 3/2/4 all clubs!  Small blind checks, I just made a small flush so I bet 15 bucks to see where I am at in the hand.  The pre-flop raiser calls and so does the small blind.  That makes me think someone has a big pair or the A or K of clubs because they didn't raise.  I really don't think someone has a bigger flush.

Turn: 2 diamonds.  Small blind checks, I bet 30 bucks, and again, pre-flop raiser and small blind call.  So know I think someone has a two and/or someone is chasing the flush because any flush should have raised me to test my flush and/or test for a full house.

River: 5 clubs!!!!!!!!  WOOHOOO!!!  Small blind bets 10, I don't get the 10 dollar bet, I think maybe he has the A of clubs and is putting in a value bet cause the board looks scary or maybe he doesn't even have a club and is hoping nobody else does either and is just buying a small pot.  I raise to 30 total.  Pre-flop raiser raises 50 to 80 even.  Small blind thinks about it for a minute and folds.  I think about it for a long time, I ask for time.  Then I raise to 200 strait, as soon as I say "raise", pre-flop puts me all in.  I call immediately.  Pre-flop raiser has A/K, K of hearts and A of clubs for a 5 high strait flush.  I turn over my 7 high strait flush to win a huge pot.  Pre-flop raiser thinks he won a jackpot but everyone at the table knows he has not.  He starts to complain and asks for a floor manager.  Meanwhile, I ask small blind what he had, he told me he had A/K as well, with the K of clubs and didn't realize he had a flush, he was only looking at the stait and thought one of us had a flush or maybe a full house.  If he had realized he had a K high flush he would have at least called the 80 bet from pre-flop raiser.

So I have over 700 bucks and I CAUGHT myself thinking "if I make 1K I'm leaving".  I play a few more hands until I got close to going under 700 and then decided to leave.  Just before I leave, pre-flop dude was pissed his hand didn't qualify for the jackpot because his K did not play, he thought strait flush over strait flush played and he said he would not have called if he had known otherwise.  I called BS on that comment cause he probably thought he had the nut strait, he probably didn't even know he had a strait flush let alone know that there was a bigger strait flush on the board. 

I think I used up all my luck for this year on that hand.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"