Author Topic: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.  (Read 9391 times)

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2008, 10:49:58 AM »
I'm not going to get into it with you over team chemistry, because i think people over value it and i think you overstate the positive impact of an odom or the negative impact of an artest...and the long rumored 'mystical' powers of phil jackson are being ignored as well.

This laker team had 'no chemistry' before the season started, kobe hated everyone he wanted andrew bynum traded for broken down jason kidd and he hated the Gm....that seemed to work out ok...these are professionals who know their jobs and I think people forget that Lamar Odom is really no more than a third banana which is one of the reasons the lakers really had to get gasol anyway, to take pressure off odom (which he couldn't handle in 'crunch time')

Didn't "team chemistry", the intelligence of the stupid GM, Kobe's "love" of his teammates, and Jackson's 'mystical powers' all magically improve immediately after the Gasol trade?
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2008, 10:52:33 AM »
Just my two sense.

That explains alot. The rest of us have five senses.  ::) And with gas prices going through the roof, driving inflation, it would cost you two dollars to add anything these days.

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2008, 10:54:24 AM »
As someone who has suffered from ADHD and grew up in the 80s when it was ignored and written off to 'not paying attention', i'm going to take slight offense at what you said up there, even in jest, as it took ADHD time to be recognized as a real issue...is it over diagnosed by doctors?  Yes, probably is.  Do parents use it as an excuse to drug their kids?  Hell yes, but ADHD is a real problem and I've thought for a while that Artest and Rasheed are severe sufferers (you know, from my armchair psychology couch with my two degrees in molecular biology :)

Wasn't Artest injured this year?


jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2008, 10:55:38 AM »
I'm not going to get into it with you over team chemistry, because i think people over value it and i think you overstate the positive impact of an odom or the negative impact of an artest...and the long rumored 'mystical' powers of phil jackson are being ignored as well.

This laker team had 'no chemistry' before the season started, kobe hated everyone he wanted andrew bynum traded for broken down jason kidd and he hated the Gm....that seemed to work out ok...these are professionals who know their jobs and I think people forget that Lamar Odom is really no more than a third banana which is one of the reasons the lakers really had to get gasol anyway, to take pressure off odom (which he couldn't handle in 'crunch time')

Didn't "team chemistry", the intelligence of the stupid GM, Kobe's "love" of his teammates, and Jackson's 'mystical powers' all magically improve immediately after the Gasol trade?

The lakers were one of the best teams in the league before bynum went down and weren't that bad in the short time bynum was lost before gasol arrived, cause of that deep bench that might take a serious hit.

The key to the lakers early season success was the ascension of Andre Bynum, you know the guy that kobe wanted to trade for the cripple in jersey who also has a spotty history?

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2008, 11:00:03 AM »
As someone who has suffered from ADHD and grew up in the 80s when it was ignored and written off to 'not paying attention', i'm going to take slight offense at what you said up there, even in jest, as it took ADHD time to be recognized as a real issue...is it over diagnosed by doctors?  Yes, probably is.  Do parents use it as an excuse to drug their kids?  Hell yes, but ADHD is a real problem and I've thought for a while that Artest and Rasheed are severe sufferers (you know, from my armchair psychology couch with my two degrees in molecular biology :)

Wasn't Artest injured this year?




First off, yes I added that in jest. Both my nephews have been diagnosed with it and I kid them about it as well. The older one has completely overcome it, but the younger one is sort of letting it be his excuse for failure when I know he could do better. And it gets over-diagnosed plenty. If drugs can help, great.

Ron had injuries, yes. About half the time. But he also would call Theus two hours before tipoff to tell him he would be unavailable for the game - injury related was the excuse, but two hours before gametime?
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2008, 11:02:12 AM »
Reggie Theus starred on Hang Time...i mean HANG TIME, that was worse than saved by the bell, how can you play for a coach that starred in a show that was worse than saved by the bell (though better than saved by the bell the college years)

ADHD is fun to have, if you can harness it, it's a hoot :)

Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2008, 11:06:24 AM »
Reggie Theus starred on Hang Time...i mean HANG TIME, that was worse than saved by the bell, how can you play for a coach that starred in a show that was worse than saved by the bell (though better than saved by the bell the college years)

ADHD is fun to have, if you can harness it, it's a hoot :)

Turns out, he seems to be a much better basketball coach then an actor. Go figure.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2008, 11:07:25 AM »
Quote
Turns out, he seems to be a much better basketball coach then an actor. Go figure.

Same with Whoopi Goldberg

Offline westkoast

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2008, 11:20:29 AM »
Just my two sense.

That explains alot. The rest of us have five senses.  ::) And with gas prices going through the roof, driving inflation, it would cost you two dollars to add anything these days.



Yea Yea..Like I said in the DB is cheating thread I can't edit my posts because it thinks im trying to post the same thing, even though I have edited the text.
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jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2008, 11:21:11 AM »
That's right, blame the sentient computers getting ready to kill us all.

It's the first step really.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2008, 11:28:00 AM »
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In all honesty, westkoast, how on earth would Kobe and Artest work together on the court? Ron has a psychotic sized ego problem, while Kobe just needs to be the #1 guy, period.  

Hmm we have one guy who is a hot head, has a massive ego, and rides his teammates for mistakes....and then they would have a guy who is a hot head, has a massive ego, and has rode teammates for mistakes (at least he had in Indiana, don't know abotu SacTown).  They wouldn't work together.  They would strangle each other before the all-star game.

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Ron works best, for his way of thinking, at least, with the ball in his hands on offense. Defensively, I see little problem, and Phil likes an enforcer on his squad and nobody quite fits the bill in that regard like a nutcase such as Artest. He would get away with much of it as well, playing in LA. However, his defense from what I have observed is clean.

And the Lakers are most dangerous when Odom, Gasol, Kobe, Fisher, and Walton are moving the ball.  This is the problem I have with trading Odom for Artest.  Odom and Gasol make the Lakers deadly.  Adding a hell of a defender would make them stronger defensively but I wouldn't' say it would make them 'dangerous'

The thing with the enforcer role that PJ gives to certain players is he expects them to be a defensive enforcer first, a defensive enforcer second, and if they get an open jump shot they take it.  If you notice both Rick Fox and Sasha are told to focus in on defense and every once in a while will get a bone throne to them behind the 3 point line.  Ron Ron is not a good jumper shooter and while his back to the basket offense is solid because of his strength the coaching staff is going to have enough problems figuring out how that space will be shared with Gasol and Bynum.



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But Ron has what you might politely call A.D.D. <in MY day, we used to just say so and so was stupid - those were the days> Ron loses focus at times. Small games do not interest him. Put him in a showboat game and he will be all over the court. He still has games he misses for "personal" reasons. He only played 56 games combined the year he was traded from Indiana; 70 games the next year, and only 57 this past year.  Need I add the season prior to that he played all of 7 games? What he gets paid under his current contract would be fair market value, except it would still be too much for the number of games he has missed.

This is another spot that Kobe and Ron will butt heads.  Kobe takes every game seriously.  He will play pick up with a 7 year old and try to beat him to a pulp 120983109283 to 2.  Then challenge the poor kid again and again and again until he doesn't score any points.  Then finally when the street lights come on and he has to go home Kobe will call him a different variation of wussy for not playing against him all night.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Lakers could use Ron Artest's defense.  I'd love to see him on the squad on that end of the floor and I think he could help Trevor Ariza much like he helped some of the Kings players.  I just don't think the lakers need his ego, attitude, and offense.  I also don't think what you lose by moving Odom can be made up for by getting Artest.  Sadly you can't zap powers from players and put them into others ala classic kids movie Space Jam.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 11:32:17 AM by westkoast »
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2008, 11:46:11 AM »
Here is another, rather dismal, thought about the Lakers making a move for Artest. While in Sacramento, Ron HAS gotten along great with his teammates. I get the impression they truly like him as a person, and Ron is very supportive of them and their game on the basketball court. He is considered a 'good' teammate. Looking back at the Indiana situation, Ron got himself in trouble DEFENDING his teammates, going into the stands in Detroit to protect and back up Jackson, for instance.

But Kobe? Who has been known to call out a teammate or two in his day? If he ever questioned Artest's commmitment after Ron calls up Jackson and backs out from a game, I would not bet against Artest taking umbridge to that and not quietly. Ron actually thinks he is on a par with players like Bryant. It would and could escalate to a point where the Shaq/Kobe feud would look like a Church bake sale gone bad in comparison.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

jemagee

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2008, 11:51:30 AM »
Kobe seemed rather well behaved this year.

And your artest comments, how can you let the facts get in the way of perception?

Offline westkoast

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2008, 11:52:43 AM »
Here is another, rather dismal, thought about the Lakers making a move for Artest. While in Sacramento, Ron HAS gotten along great with his teammates. I get the impression they truly like him as a person, and Ron is very supportive of them and their game on the basketball court. He is considered a 'good' teammate. Looking back at the Indiana situation, Ron got himself in trouble DEFENDING his teammates, going into the stands in Detroit to protect and back up Jackson, for instance.

But Kobe? Who has been known to call out a teammate or two in his day? If he ever questioned Artest's commmitment after Ron calls up Jackson and backs out from a game, I would not bet against Artest taking umbridge to that and not quietly. Ron actually thinks he is on a par with players like Bryant. It would and could escalate to a point where the Shaq/Kobe feud would look like a Church bake sale gone bad in comparison.

Very true and I didn't think of it that way.  That is pretty much a given if he does come on board.  Kobe will question his commitment  (rightfully so) and Ron Artest will get pissed for him running his mouth in that fashion (again..he would have the right to be mad).  The difference is Ron Artest is someone who can fight and Shaq couldn't even hit that massive target we call Charles Barkley.....Oh ya and the last time Kobe tried to fight a New Yorker?  Charlie Ward knuckled him up LOL

I think everyone forgot that Ron Artest "dissed" Magic Johnson and the fact he has HIV...so this deal is not going to go through for so many reasons.
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Offline msc

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Re: Lakers are seriously looking to acquire Ron Artest.
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2008, 01:28:22 PM »
I hope the Lakers have nothing to do with Ron Ron.  I think it would be a big mistake to bring him into the mix.  IMO, after the Celtic beat down, if you told me the Lakers were adding an athletic, defensive minded SG/SF player who can hit the occasional 3 PLUS the Lakers also got a true 7 foot center who can put up 13/10 and bang in the paint as well as block shots and has no interest in 15 foot jumpshoots I would be happy and call it day.

IMO the Lakers don't need to make one SINGLE personnel move, all they need to do is come back healthy and the championship is theirs to lose.  Unfortunately it looks like Turiaf might be gone and the knee-jerkers are ready to ship Odom off.  Odom is going to be the 3rd option at BEST, most likely he will be the 4th option and probably the 2nd/3rd option with the SECOND unit.  If Buss is willing to spend bucks then keep the team together for another 3 years.

+1 

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