Author Topic: Brand?  (Read 82023 times)

Offline bebopdeluxe

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2008, 12:34:50 PM »
TGP:

Let me clarify...

Ralph hits the floor after he sees the Sixers payroll (which include a contract extension for Miller and the resigning of LouW)...

 ;D

As much as I hate to say it, Boston won a title by doing something very similar to this.  It really all comes down to Brand, and whether he can be sold on making the move.  I gotta think that - if he looks at it objectively - the team that could be put together in Philly will have a better shot at going to the Finals than either the Clips or Warriors...and he can STILL make movies.

Offline sixers hoops

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2008, 12:37:05 PM »
Smith's max would still be over $76 mil...which may be a lot for the ATL ownership to swallow.

I think if either of these scenarios comes to pass, Iguodala may be gone - both for shooting/floor spacing as well as (in the case of signing JSmooth) contract envy.

Just for the sake of shaking up the chat, besides Redd what other shooting guards would be GREAT fits with Brand and Miller?

Rip maybe. I think he can opt-out next summer. I don't know if Dumars would look to move him.

jemagee

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2008, 12:38:14 PM »
Quote
I know people hate Gordon, and I know he's not a great defender, but with the size we'll have at 3/4/5 (Thad, Brand, Dalembert starting with Speights and Smith off the bench), I think you can get away with a smaller 2 guard, especially if he's such a good half court offensive player. 

I know Gordon's BETTER but if you are going to go with a smaller 2 guard - isn't louis williams a cheaper easier to get version?

jemagee

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
The pistons are supposedly players this off season, with everyone thinking Rasheed is the guy to go, but if all these PFs move via free agency maybe the pistons have to start looking at moving someone else and maybe Rip becomes available?  But do the sixers have assets to get him?

Offline sixers hoops

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2008, 12:44:49 PM »
The pistons are supposedly players this off season, with everyone thinking Rasheed is the guy to go, but if all these PFs move via free agency maybe the pistons have to start looking at moving someone else and maybe Rip becomes available?  But do the sixers have assets to get him?

I don't know if you can trade Iggy for Rip, Redd, or a Mike Miller. At that point, if both teams are over the cap, it can get very confusing. If Minnesota, Detroit, Milwaukee were to send out a 10 million dollar player, then I thought they can only take back 5 million in salary.

Most sign-and-trades are to a team under the cap that I can think of. I am trying to remember how a guy like Eddy Curry was traded.

Offline The Sixer Fixer

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #95 on: July 08, 2008, 12:45:05 PM »
Smith's max would still be over $76 mil...which may be a lot for the ATL ownership to swallow.

I think if either of these scenarios comes to pass, Iguodala may be gone - both for shooting/floor spacing as well as (in the case of signing JSmooth) contract envy.

Just for the sake of shaking up the chat, besides Redd what other shooting guards would be GREAT fits with Brand and Miller?


In a possible trade involving Iguodala...

Vince Carter - too expensive
Jamal Crawford - I like him a bit (can play some point too) - streaky shooter though
Rip Hamilton - would love to get him, but still not an elite 3 pt guy
Joe Johnson - not available
Ray Allen - not available and too old
Jason Richardson - could be a good fit and may not be a Larry Brown guy
Jason Terry - undersized and getting a bit old
Ellis - would love him, but not a 3 pt guy yet - S/T candidate? not likely
Dunleavy - not an ideal fit...more a SF
Mike Miller - can't be traded right now
Kevin Martin - not available
Brandon Roy - not available

I'd say Richardson and Rip would be the best options out of what could be available via trade.  Crawford a possible option too?

jemagee

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #96 on: July 08, 2008, 12:45:45 PM »
Can Mikael Pietrus

A.  Play the 2 position
B.  Shoot the 3 at all?

Offline tk76-

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #97 on: July 08, 2008, 12:46:07 PM »
TGP:

As much as I would enjoy seeing the Redd/Green show as SG...  I would rather keep Iguodala.

I realize our team lacks 3 pt shooters, but I'm not so convinced that their shooting is a fatal flaw.  A player like Miller who knows his range can be an effective shooter out to 17 feet with good accuracy.

I also think you can't leave Iguodala or Young open.  Even if they don't hit a 3, they would attack the defense and create an easy scoring for themselves or others.  They both could be good shooters, but it might be another year or too (maybe too late for Brand's prime.)

Ideally I want better 3 pt shooters too.  KK would be great- but I'm fine as long as you don't try to spread the floor with guys who think they can hit the shot and then miss (Green in a slump.)  Good ball movement can be taken advantage of even without great shooters.  I can't imaging teams will leave Iguodala alone, and Thad is a great opportunity scorer when you leave him open.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #98 on: July 08, 2008, 12:52:23 PM »
The deal with a signing bonus is it's paid upfront, but that amount (the signing bonus) is counted against the cap in subsequent years.  So it has the same cap hit this year (if we have 14 mil in cap space this year, we can only have a 14 mil cap hit), but we would pay more than that this year.  It's the "losing more money now" thing that could scare the Hawks, not the cap hit.

Example:
Let's say we offer Smith a salary starting at 13 million, for 5 years, with 8% raises.  That would typically look like this:
Year 1: $13,000,000
Year 2: $14,040,000
Year 3: $15,080,000
Year 4: $16,120,000
Year 5: $17,260,000
Total: $75.4 million

But, we can offer 17.5% of that (13.195 million) as a signing bonus.  Our cap hit would be like:
Year 1: $10,361,000 base salary + 2,639,000 signing bonus = $13,000,000
Year 2: $11,401,000 base salary + 2,639,000 signing bonus = $14,040,000
Year 3: $12,441,000 base salary + 2,639,000 signing bonus = $15,080,000
Year 4: $13,481,000 base salary + 2,639,000 signing bonus = $16,120,000
Year 5: $14,521,000 base salary + 2,639,000 signing bonus = $17,260,000
Total: $75.4 million

The owner would be paying $23,556,000 up front.  It would only only 13 million against the cap, but the excess the owner would be paying this year is what might scare him off.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #99 on: July 08, 2008, 12:55:13 PM »
Quote
I know Gordon's BETTER but if you are going to go with a smaller 2 guard - isn't louis williams a cheaper easier to get version?

Except that he's never proven he can score 20 ppg, let alone make 2 three's per game at an over 40% clip.

They play different games, really.  Ben's 1000x a better catch and shoot player than Louis, which is what this team really needs IMO.  Ben also is a better defender at the 2.  I don't like Louis as a 2 guard at all, really.

Offline DuckyNinja

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2008, 12:55:50 PM »
I've said it once before.  You don't NEED 3 point shooters to be successful.  Iguodala is going to be better overall than a guy like Redd because even though Redd can shoot the 3, it's not enough of an offensive difference to replace Iggy's steals and overall defense.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #101 on: July 08, 2008, 12:56:06 PM »
Smith's max would still be over $76 mil...which may be a lot for the ATL ownership to swallow.

I think if either of these scenarios comes to pass, Iguodala may be gone - both for shooting/floor spacing as well as (in the case of signing JSmooth) contract envy.

Just for the sake of shaking up the chat, besides Redd what other shooting guards would be GREAT fits with Brand and Miller?


In a possible trade involving Iguodala...

Vince Carter - too expensive
Jamal Crawford - I like him a bit (can play some point too) - streaky shooter though
Rip Hamilton - would love to get him, but still not an elite 3 pt guy
Joe Johnson - not available
Ray Allen - not available and too old
Jason Richardson - could be a good fit and may not be a Larry Brown guy
Jason Terry - undersized and getting a bit old
Ellis - would love him, but not a 3 pt guy yet - S/T candidate? not likely
Dunleavy - not an ideal fit...more a SF
Mike Miller - can't be traded right now
Kevin Martin - not available
Brandon Roy - not available

I'd say Richardson and Rip would be the best options out of what could be available via trade.  Crawford a possible option too?


JR Smith could be a possibility.  Not sure what you'd have to give up in a s&t though.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #102 on: July 08, 2008, 12:58:20 PM »
I've said it once before.  You don't NEED 3 point shooters to be successful.  Iguodala is going to be better overall than a guy like Redd because even though Redd can shoot the 3, it's not enough of an offensive difference to replace Iggy's steals and overall defense.

Just because you've said it doesn't mean it's true.  There aren't many successful half court teams that don't have shooters in their starting lineup to spread the court.  There aren't many championship teams that aren't successful half court teams.  Ergo, the Sixers need to improve their perimeter shooting.

Offline The Sixer Fixer

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #103 on: July 08, 2008, 12:58:25 PM »
I have convinced myself, my trade target would be Jason Richardson. 

He shot like 7 3's/gm last year and hit at nearly 41 %.  You aren't going to find many guys who have a better % when shooting that type of volume.  He would fit the need of having a legit 1b option (along with Brand as a 1a). 

Offline Skates

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Re: Brand?
« Reply #104 on: July 08, 2008, 12:58:31 PM »
Quote
I know people hate Gordon, and I know he's not a great defender, but with the size we'll have at 3/4/5 (Thad, Brand, Dalembert starting with Speights and Smith off the bench), I think you can get away with a smaller 2 guard, especially if he's such a good half court offensive player. 

I know Gordon's BETTER but if you are going to go with a smaller 2 guard - isn't louis williams a cheaper easier to get version?

With Gordon you might want to go the route of starting a defensive-minded role player with some size at SG, with Gordon coming into the game early on off the bench.  Sort of like a Marc Iavaroni for the backcourt.

More importantly, now that we are at least rumored players for both Brand and Smith, who is your preference with Brand getting the max of our cap room and Smith getting the max available for a 4 year player?

Absent the achilles issue I would be all over Brand as my number one choice.  I wonder if Brand's visit here the other day included a physical of any kind, at least as regards the heel.  I definitely go back and forth between the two at this point.