Brand?

[sixers hoops]

Again, if the trade with the wolves involves a trade exception, how much cap room can the sixers truly get?

The Sixers expected to have 11.5 in cap space. This frees Carney at over 1.6 million and Booth at over 1.1 million. It should add about 2.8 million, which would be 14.3 in cap space. However, the cap may be set higher than originally expected, so they could have 15 million.

[Skates]

Based on my reading of the CBA and the CBA FAQ's is that we would receive a trade exception in the amount of Carney and Booth's combined salaries.  For one year we could accept that amount of salary back in a trade even if we are over the cap without matching those salaries on their way out.  The exception counts against our cap.  To use some or all of it on Brand or Smith, we would have to renounce the exception and gain the pure cap space.  No double dipping (cap space plus trade exception) allowed.

[Derek Bodner]

Based on my reading of the CBA and the CBA FAQ's is that we would receive a trade exception in the amount of Carney and Booth's combined salaries.  For one year we could accept that amount of salary back in a trade even if we are over the cap without matchin those salaries on their way out.  The exception counts against our cap.  To use some or all of it on Brand or Smith, we would have to renounce the exception and gain the pure cap space.  No double dipping (cap space plus trade exception) allowed.

I do believe you are correct.

[jemagee]

Ok, trying this again, the modify function is running slow.

So after reading through the sixers WILL get cap space assuming they renounce the trade exception...interesting

Jasner was on espn radio this morning implying some feel the sixers are being played by brand

[philbe311]

More fuel on the fire...

http://www.bergproperties.com/blog/basketball-star-elton-brand-places-his-5471-square-foot-house-in-los-angeles-hollywood-hills-back-on-the-market-for-49985m/4213/celebrities

[tk76-]

Ok, i get that, but then is my understanding still accurate that by doing a trade with minnesota as proposed the sixers get no additional cap space to combine with existing cap space to increase free agent offers?

Summing up what has been written:

1.  Min can trade for Carney and Booth using their trade exception.

2.  Philly recieves a 2.8M mil trade exception by shippong out Carney and Booth.

3.  Philly can renounce all of its exceptions (the trade exception, the MLE ect) in order to free up 14.5M in cap space and then sign a FA (Brand or Smith)

4.  Philly then would be at the cap without any remaining exceptions.  They would have to fill out the reamainder of their roster with min sal guys or make more trades to add to their team.

[tk76-]

More fuel on the fire...

http://www.bergproperties.com/blog/basketball-star-elton-brand-places-his-5471-square-foot-house-in-los-angeles-hollywood-hills-back-on-the-market-for-49985m/4213/celebrities

Well I've been looking for a house.  No time like the present to take advantage of the downturn in the housing market, and the quirks of the CBA.

[philbe311]

I believe that's all accurate except number #3...  Philly doesn't have a MLE, so they can't renounce it...  They would renounce the trade exception and combine it with their available cap space (roughly $11.5M) to have 14-15M in cap space...

Teams under the salary cap do not get the MLE...

[Skates]

I believe that's all accurate except number #3...  Philly doesn't have a MLE, so they can't renounce it...  They would renounce the trade exception and combine it with their available cap space (roughly $11.5M) to have 14-15M in cap space...

They get all of the exceptions, including the MLE, but since they have to renounce it to use it the effect is the same.

[jemagee]

I don't think that's correct, aren't there circumstances which must be met when you get the mle (no cap space or limited cap space?)

[philbe311]

Not to nit-pik, but only teams over the salary cap get the MLE...  Teams under the salary cap do not get the MLE...  The sixers are under the cap and therefore do not get the mid-level exception...

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Salary-Cap/

If they did, we could be looking at over $20M in capspace which is not the case...

[tk76-]

I don't think that's correct, aren't their circumstances which must be met when you get the mle (no cap space or limited cap space?)

Its pretty clearly laid out in t what Skates posted on the previous page.

If the Sixers are 12M under the cap they can use 6.2M + MLE(5.8M) or renounce the MLE and use the entire 12M.  Is really kust semantics because in reality they don't have the MLE.

[tk76-]

20.  How do exceptions count against the cap?  Does being under the cap always mean that a team has room to sign free agents?  Do teams ever lose their exceptions?

If a team is below the cap, then their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap.  This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts (see question numbers 29, 30, 31, 32).  A team can't act like they're under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use their Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions.  Consequently, the exceptions are added to their team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap.  If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary.  There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.
So it is not true that being under the cap necessarily means a team has room to sign free agents.  For example, assume the cap is $49.5 million, and a team has $43 million committed to salaries.  They also have a Mid-Level exception for $5 million and a Traded Player exception for $5.5 million.  Even though their salaries put them $6.5 million under the cap, their exceptions are added to their salaries, putting them at $53.5 million, or $4 million over the cap.  So they actually have no cap room to sign free agents, and must instead use their exceptions.

Teams have the option of renouncing their exceptions in order to claim the cap room.  So in the example above, if the team renounced their Traded Player and Mid-Level exceptions, then the $10.5 million is taken off their team salary, which then totals $43 million, leaving them with $6.5 million of cap room which can then be used to sign free agent(s).

 

[Derek Bodner]

Not to nit-pik, but only teams over the salary cap get the MLE...  Teams under the salary cap do not get the MLE...  The sixers are under the cap and therefore do not get the mid-level exception...

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Salary-Cap/

If they did, we could be looking at over $20M in capspace which is not the case...

The 11-12 million already that has been floating about this summer implies that the exceptions are renounced.  That # includes the renounced MLE.  As tk is saying, it's really semantics, as if you're under the cap by more than the exceptions, you're going to want to renounce it, it always happens, and it's essentially you not getting the MLE.  but it is a two step process, you get the MLE, you renounce the MLE.  This is done so you can't use your cap space then use the MLE.

[Skates]

Not to nit-pik, but only teams over the salary cap get the MLE...  Teams under the salary cap do not get the MLE...  The sixers are under the cap and therefore do not get the mid-level exception...

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Salary-Cap/

If they did, we could be looking at over $20M in capspace which is not the case...

The 11-12 million already that has been floating about this summer implies that the exceptions are renounced.  That # includes the renounced MLE.  As tk is saying, it's really semantics, as if you're under the cap by more than the exceptions, you're going to want to renounce it, it always happens, and it's essentially you not getting the MLE.  but it is a two step process, you get the MLE, you renounce the MLE.  This is done so you can't use your cap space then use the MLE.

They probably don't have to formally renounce them until they need to use them, kind of like renouncing players with cap holds for the same purpose.  But given the way the CBA is set up, that would be simply a formality.  It is all cap space, before the exceptions are renounced it is chopped up cap space, after they are renounced it is one big heaping pile of cap space.