Plan B: Shooting Guard

[bebopdeluxe]

OK...I give.

I respect that Gordon is a good player...and I understand that - should we add him to the Sixers, he would be an upgrade.  I guess that I put an upgrade at SG behind figuring out what to do after Miller and before Speights...that's all.

[TheGuiltyParty]

OK...I give.

I respect that Gordon is a good player...and I understand that - should we add him to the Sixers, he would be an upgrade.  I guess that I put an upgrade at SG behind figuring out what to do after Miller and before Speights...that's all.

LOL! You give in to easily. :-)

Actually, I understand what you're saying completely. My posts about Gordon are based on the report that SF76 gave in which he said that the Sixers will look to get a SG. If we're doing that, I'm just saying that I think Gordon is a better fit than Childress. If Childress were cheap than it would be different but Childress is going to cost a good chunk of money as well.

Right now, I'm all for using the space and Miller/Evans to try and pry Hinrich and Gooden away from Chicago. Why blow the space on someone who don't really love? Again... maybe someone demands a trade during the season or maybe a team looks to blow this up after a bad start, I'd want our team to have the ability to get those players.

[bebopdeluxe]

TGP:

As long as we have been around, you should know me better than that...

 

Look...Derek is making some good point, and I don't think I've ever been a poster who continues to argue a position when logical, substantive data refutes it.  I would still rather have Hinrich than Gordon - for me, figuring out who is going to be the PG after Miller is way up there on my "Sixers to-do" list (especially now that they may have drafted their PF of the future).  But I would be silly to argue that we don't need help scoring the ball in the half-court...and Gordon would certainly help there.

I would still choose to spend my money elsewhere - unless we are going to renounce or S&T Iguodala.

[tk76-]

I guess I concede that Gordon has a decent eFG% (although several primarily 3pt shooters have much higher eFG% than 50%.)  My point is more that he is a chucker that doesn't bring that much else to the table.  i don't have his usage stats, but I'm pretty sure his shot/assist rate bears this out.  I could be wrong, but I feel like he more often shoots jumpers than breaks down the offense, and creates for himself more than opening things up for teammates.

I value that he can score, and create offense for himself.  He would be a nice piece to have on a team.  I just don't see him as a prime building block.  I am more than happy to go with a cheaper, more versatile LouW- even if he is not nearly the shooter that Gordon is.

[jemagee]

A chucker is a guy who takes a lot of shots and shoots a bad percentage
you know - allen iverson is a chucker
if a guy makes his shots at a good percentage, as gordon does, he isn't a chucker
besides, 14 shots per games isn't out of the ordinary

Everyone is bitching that there's no 'go to guy' on the sixers, gordon would be that go to guy at the end of the game, has been since he was a rookie for the bulls, he wants the ball he's aggressive to the basket.

Gordon has all those things that iguodala detractors say he's missing

And yet no one wants him on this team for those exact reasons.

So now I'm just confused

[jemagee]

TGP - notice how no one is talking trades right now?  That's because free agency comes first, when all the faces have new residences, then the trade market will warm up - people are just panicinig a bit to early.

[bebopdeluxe]

jem:

Are you suggesting that we should replace Iggy with Gordon at SG?

Because if you are...I'm listening...

[jemagee]

No, what I'm saying is that all the things people are criticizing gordon for having are the things they criticize Iguodala for lacking.

Gordon brings to the sixers EXACTLY what everyone here says that Iguodala lacks (since you all seem to be obsessed with only one end of the court, let's ignore all the things iguodala does very well that gordon won't do) and those traits he's being criticized for.

It's just funny to read.

[bebopdeluxe]

I hear you, bro.

To be clear, I do not want Gordon - but I certainly can acknowledge that the thing he does well is something the Sixers lack.  The solution is to add a PG who can fill in the things that Iggy does not do well - namely outside shooting and stretching the defense (something that Miller simply does not do), which is why - if we cannot materially upgrade the PF position with our cap-room - that going after Hinrich makes so much sense to me.  You not only get our PG or the future, but you also make Iggy and Thad more productive by opening up the floor. 

Simply get whatever expiring contract you can for Miller and move forward.

[jemagee]

A.  I know you don't want gordon , even presented with evidence that your reasons for disliking gordon are wrong, you still don't like gordon...i admire that kind of tenacity.

B.  Trading Miller (who expires) for expiring is a silly waste of assets, if ALL you can get is an expiring deal for miller this off season, you keep him and play him and hope his value increases until the deadline or workout a sign and trade in the next offseason...i advocate trading miller, but expiring for expiring makes very little sense to me because it doesn't improve your team long term.

It's a long term game folks, not a quick fix one season thing, billy king messed this team up good and it's up to stefanski to turn it around but it ain't happening over night and probably won't, if you can't have patience you are in for disappointment most likely

[bebopdeluxe]

jem:

If you can move Miller for another expiring, you give yourself another shot at a PF (like, say, Millsap) next summer, while making room for upgrading the PG position now (should Hinrich become available, for example).  Obviously, these two things need to be done together...and I would probably only advocate this if Hinrich actually does become available...as no other PG that I see out there is worth moving Miller before the trade deadline.

[jemagee]

If you keep miller and let him expire you ALSO have a shot at another PF (like say milsap, how much money do you think milsap will get) but also have a PG this year to help the players develop some more.

I'm not sure why a DIFFERENT expiring deal is better than millers expiring deal, and in my opinion, it ain't, cause you need a point guard to play basketball and trading miller for someone elses expiring deal just widens that hole...it's a zero sum illogical move...expiring deals are expiring deals, trading miller for one to create cap room next season isn't a move that makes ANY sense to me what so ever.

And if you DONT use the cap room this off season (which i advocate if you can't get the right deal done) how much more cap room do you think the sixers need for paul freakign milsap?  They will have this 11 mil plus miller - do you somehow think milsap or his ilk is worth 20 mil a year?

[bebopdeluxe]

The point is you would probably need to use most of the $11.5 million to get Hinrich from the Bulls this summer (assuming they resign Gordon, of course)...so you would have your PG in place for the future - making Miller's continued attendance unnecessary.  So...if you trade Miller (THIS summer), you want to do it for another expiring contract, so that you can take another swing next summer...either for Millsap or whatever player makes sense.  If you can get a one-year stop-gap PF to bridge the gap to Speights (or Millsap or whoever), then all the better.

[TheGuiltyParty]

In regard to the Chicago situation, I think it's probably best to just sit back and let things play out over there rather than get involved right now. Unless Gordon agrees to a 1 year deal, Chicago is going to have to move either Hinrich or Gordon. By being a lazy GM, Ed is in a sense playing this perfectly. He can target the RFA now and if he gets him, great. If not, then perhaps some of the dust will have settled in places like Chicago, Golden State, Washington, and Los Angeles. From there, he can work the trade route out and land us a nice piece for the future.

My fear is that we strike out with Smith, Arenas re-signs in Washington, Brand re-signs with the Clippers and then we find ourselves still being a runner-up in most teams minds to Golden State in any/all deals. Eh... this thing will work itself out.

[jemagee]

The point is you would probably need to use most of the $11.5 million to get Hinrich from the Bulls this summer

I disagree whole heartedly and have said so in other places, if you think you are getting hinrich JUST for a trade exception you are deluding yourself and falling into the trap of under valuing players from other teams and over valuing the sixers assets.

My fear is that we strike out with Smith, Arenas re-signs in Washington, Brand re-signs with the Clippers and then we find ourselves still being a runner-up in most teams minds to Golden State in any/all deals. Eh... this thing will work itself out.

So your fear is that things  will work out exactly how people thought it would work out in regards to the two primary free agent targets and the sixers will have to get something done via trade (I'm ignoring arenas cause in my mind he never should have been a target of the sixers) which is what probably was going to happen anyway.

YES the warriors might have more cap space, but they have more guys who are restricted who are probably more sought after than either andre iguodala or louis williams...they have to defend their own front, they don't really NEED more power forwards, and the sixers do, so from a trade point of view, they'd be going after different targets.  Point guard might be a conflict but I think the warriors need a 'different kind' of point guard than the sixers (i don't think the warriors would be interested in kirk hinrich)

I don't think the warriors cap room interferes with the sixers once brand returns to the clippers - because i don't think the two teams would be after the same assets.