Player Movement Thread (Was Free Agency Thread)

[DuckyNinja]

I thought it was 8% raises for non-Bird FAs and 11% for your own full Bird FAs, but I could be wrong.

Even if it is 12.5%, the % raise is calculated from the base salary, not by the year before.  So you're looking at around 10.4 mil for the first year.  That's 2.1 mil more than Iggy's cap hold, and we had to clear 2.8 mil as it was.  So I think it's safe to say we wouldn't've had enough for Brand.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if we do S+T Iguodala without adding salary, wouldn't that cap hold essentially turn into equivalent cap space, which would then be enough to go out and get Gordon most likely?

[Skates]

So if what you all is saying is true, Iguodala actually helped the sixers by not agreeing to their low ball offer last off season, cause if he had they wouldn't have been able to get brand...now a good agent might be able to massage that into a negotiating chip
[/quote]

Iggy's unsuccessful money grab last year did indeed help us get Brand this year without having to dump any core pieces of the team.  Imagine how successful BK would have been if he had taken such a hard line against guys like WG and Kenny Thomas instead of acting like Chris Mullin and competing against himself constantly.

[jemagee]

What percentage the raise is calculated at is inconsequential to Iguodalas number for next season as it would be the first year of his contract...the percentage raise only helps determine what that salary would be next year.

If the % riase is calculated from the base salary, then wouldn't the salary a player gets be the same every year in years 2 through 5?

[jemagee]

If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer.  A maximum qualifying offer is for six seasons at the maximum salary with 10.5% annual raises.  It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed.   When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player even hits the market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).

Assuming I read the two sites right, Iguodalas cap hold is about 8.4 million, if the sixers had given him the 60 million his cap number for next season would be, 9.73 million...so it's a nice little savings they got to get brand, now let's hope it doesn't bite them in the ass

[DuckyNinja]

If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer.  A maximum qualifying offer is for six seasons at the maximum salary with 10.5% annual raises.  It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed.   When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player even hits the market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).

Assuming I read the two sites right, Iguodalas cap hold is about 8.4 million, if the sixers had given him the 60 million his cap number for next season would be, 9.73 million...so it's a nice little savings they got to get brand, now let's hope it doesn't bite them in the ass

Technically, it can only bite them in the ass if they allow it to.  If they end up having to pay Iguodala 5/65 or 5/70 instead of 5/57, but it means they got Brand, I don't think anybody's complaining other than Comcast.

[jemagee]

Except there are those here who don't think iguodala is worth that much money (hence the entire start of the discussion in the first place)
70 milliion has an about 11.5 milllion base in year one...close to that 12 million that's 'too much' for iguodala

[DuckyNinja]

I think he's worth whatever we hafta pay him.  You're not going to get a player of his caliber with 8.3 mil in cap space.  Andrew Bogut is overpaid because the Bucks were bidding against themselves.  You can't overpay market value on the open market.

[jemagee]

That depends if you agree with the market value...i believe TGPs point (if i missed it i apologize) was that if the clips are willing to go 12 mil in the first year, he'd rather work out a sign and trade and pay less for gordon with the room...the clippers are setting iguodalas market at 12 mil and TGP says he's not worth that (i think)

[southjersey]

You dont have to pay Iguodala whatever he is asking. Have we forgotten the 2008 playoffs already? There are alot of areas of his game that are inconsistant, and is probably at most an 18 ppg on this team with Brand here and Young getting more time. We're not even sure he can be a fulltime SG. The point is that bad contracts drag a team down. If Iguodala gets a huge extension and does not perform, like in the playoffs, things will get ugly with the philly fans.

[Skates]

Crap, I went looking for any real FA news to break up the string of hypothetical Iggy scenarios.  Couldn't find any.  Carry on.

[TheGuiltyParty]

That depends if you agree with the market value...i believe TGPs point (if i missed it i apologize) was that if the clips are willing to go 12 mil in the first year, he'd rather work out a sign and trade and pay less for gordon with the room...the clippers are setting iguodalas market at 12 mil and TGP says he's not worth that (i think)

That is exactly what I am saying. Just because a team is willing to overpay Iguodala significantly, it doesn't mean the Sixers have to match. I like Iguodala a lot and I think he can be an important cog towards winning a title... at the same time, signing him to such a huge deal is risky. What if he can't be the #2 guy on a title team? If that's the case, that huge contract could restrict us from getting that #2 guy.

A good example of this to me is the '01 Sixers. We had Iverson (clearly a #1 at the time) and we had Mutumbo who was being paid like the #2 guy but he wasn't that person. We had a chance to get out from Mutumbo and his demands the following summer but we gave him an even worse contract. Even though Mutumbo was being paid like a #2 on a championship team but was more of a #3 guy, we made a bunch of desperate moves (Mutumbo became KVH, KVH became Glenn Robinson, Robinson became Mashburn).

I have no doubts that we could have won a title with Iverson and Mutumbo if we had a #2 guy on that team. I just don't want us to find ourselves falling short this season and next and then making panic moves that lead us to a similar situation. Again... maybe Iguodala is a #2 on a title contender and therefore it doesn't matter what he gets paid, but I'm just not 100% he is right now which is why I'm a tad nervous.

[jemagee]

You dont have to pay Iguodala whatever he is asking. Have we forgotten the 2008 playoffs already? There are alot of areas of his game that are inconsistant, and is probably at most an 18 ppg on this team with Brand here and Young getting more time. We're not even sure he can be a fulltime SG. The point is that bad contracts drag a team down. If Iguodala gets a huge extension and does not perform, like in the playoffs, things will get ugly with the philly fans.

Have you forgotten the rest of his career or that there's more to basketball than points per game or what players of equal iguodala skill make around the league....

Dear god people Iguodala is NOT willie green, he's not fungible, he's not easily replaced, he's a key high level piece of a team that wants to win a title...if you let him walk and sign an inferior person than that 'full step' you took forward by signing  brand not has a pretty substantiali partial step backwards...

And lest we forget the folly of looking at 'six games' - look at what sam dalembert got for 'six games' when detroit really didn't give a damn what he did (as opposed to this year when one of the best defenders in the league was covering Andre Iguodala)

But yeah, ignore the first four regular seasons and the progression, focus only on the small sample size of the first playoff appearance without iverson, i think that's a stronger indicator of what andre iguodala can do and not do, not the close to 350 games he played before those playoffs

[jemagee]

That is exactly what I am saying. Just because a team is willing to overpay Iguodala significantly, it doesn't mean the Sixers have to match. I like Iguodala a lot and I think he can be an important cog towards winning a title... at the same time, signing him to such a huge deal is risky. What if he can't be the #2 guy on a title team? If that's the case, that huge contract could restrict us from getting that #2 guy.

You wanna play the what if game, we could play the what if game...let's play the what if game with eltons brands knees and achilles?


Lamar Odom ain't a #2, he's a #3, he's a sickly valuable #3 and I think Andre Iguodala is better than Lamar Odom.

Lamar Odom is playing on a 6 year 71.7 million dollar deal.

You want to not 'over pay' igoudala, that's fine, don't think he's worth 70 million dollars?  That's fine...tell you what though, if they let iguodala walk and take back a less talented less all around complete player, they'll be farther farther from the title than you think...

There's only one person I'd be willing to consider an equal replacement for andre iguodala and it's not ben gordon, though he does play for the bulls

[jemagee]

I don't get it, trading away jason smith would be a 'disaster' to some cause he's so valuable...a flabby out of shape, slow 7 footer who has limited outside range and is probably already being outplayed by the rookie speights.

yet Iguodala is disposable so much more easily

[DuckyNinja]

Jem seems to be an awesome job saying everything I would say, so I'll let him handle that while I bring up another hypothetical.  Say we hafta trade Iguodala and get Gordon and 2 firsts.  Would you turn around and trade Smith, a first, and Minny's 2nd or something like that to Sacto for Artest and give him a sizeable extension?  He's way more injury prone and 4 years older, but he's 28, so he matches with Brand, and he's more of a headcase, but he's also a defensive stud, can at least averagely hit the 3, and is about equal with Iggy when it comes to scoring.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying I would do this, just curious what other people think about Artest.