Player Movement Thread (Was Free Agency Thread)

[tk76-]

I would want Gordon and Jordan back- doubt they would bite.  I would also need to be certain the Sixers could get back a top level SG with the trade exception.  Overall, it gets really risky now that the team is in win now mode with Brand.  Unfortunately, keeping Iguodala may translate into cap problems- but that is the case for most playoff teams.  Doesn't mean the team can't make further moves, just they might be up against the tax like when they had AI and CWebb.

[TheGuiltyParty]

Can Thornton play the 4? I know he's small but I thought he played the position a little bit for them, no? Doesn't the following lineup seem very reminiscent of the '08 Warriors team that won 48 games?

'09 Clippers/'08 Warriors

Davis/Davis
Gordon/Ellis
Iguodala/Jackson
Thornton/Harrington
Kaman/Biedrins

[TheGuiltyParty]

I would want Gordon and Jordan back- doubt they would bite.  I would also need to be certain the Sixers could get back a top level SG with the trade exception.  Overall, it gets really risky now that the team is in win now mode with Brand.  Unfortunately, keeping Iguodala may translate into cap problems- but that is the case for most playoff teams.  Doesn't mean the team can't make further moves, just they might be up against the tax like when they had AI and CWebb.

In Ed I Trust.

First of all, let me say this... I think Ed will match anything the Clippers offer Iguodala so I think there's less than a 5% chance Iguodala isn't a Sixer next season. That said, let's say that Ed does with Iggy as he did with Martin. He trades him and gets back 2 first round picks and a trade exception. Based on what's he done with this team thus far, I have no reason to think that Ed can't find a legitimate shooting guard for this team when armed with a $12MIL exception and 2 first round picks.

Again, I think I would rather have an inferior all-around player like Ben Gordon for $8MIL/year than Iguodala for $12MIL/year.

[jemagee]

Again, I think I would rather have an inferior all-around player like Ben Gordon for $8MIL/year than Iguodala for $12MIL/year.

Ben Gordon probably wouldn't settle for 40 million over 5 years after he turned down 50, he'd probably take the one year tender and hope that with the new coach and a new system he can play back up - a risk but i wouldnt' be surprised if he can't get an offer close to the 50 million.

Personally, I'd rather have the better player at 12 than the inferior player at 8 - i'd like the sixers to be a 'big time' team in the league...

[anklebreaker]

Again, I think I would rather have an inferior all-around player like Ben Gordon for $8MIL/year than Iguodala for $12MIL/year.

Ben Gordon probably wouldn't settle for 40 million over 5 years after he turned down 50, he'd probably take the one year tender and hope that with the new coach and a new system he can play back up - a risk but i wouldnt' be surprised if he can't get an offer close to the 50 million.

Personally, I'd rather have the better player at 12 than the inferior player at 8 - i'd like the sixers to be a 'big time' team in the league...

I agree although I hope it doesn't get to 12. 

[The Sixer Fixer]

Again, I think I would rather have an inferior all-around player like Ben Gordon for $8MIL/year than Iguodala for $12MIL/year.

Ben Gordon probably wouldn't settle for 40 million over 5 years after he turned down 50, he'd probably take the one year tender and hope that with the new coach and a new system he can play back up - a risk but i wouldnt' be surprised if he can't get an offer close to the 50 million.

Personally, I'd rather have the better player at 12 than the inferior player at 8 - i'd like the sixers to be a 'big time' team in the league...

I think the comment of having Gordon at 8 mil was in reference to his first yr salary (not his average salary).  He compared Andre at 12 to Gordon at 8.  The 12 for Andre I think is based on a first year salary with the Clips, not an average of 12.  The Sixers would most definitely match an average of 12/yr (would they match an average of over 14 mil if the Clips offer that?).  That would mean Gordon's 8 mil starting salary is about equal to the 5 yr/50 he turned down.  He may be willing to take it here if he's guarantee starting (something he was not guaranteed in Chicago obviously).

[DuckyNinja]

Can somebody say for sure how Iggy possibly being a BYC would affect the trade exception/any possible S+T with him?

[jemagee]

Can somebody say for sure how Iggy possibly being a BYC would affect the trade exception/any possible S+T with him?

Yes

[DuckyNinja]

Can somebody say for sure how Iggy possibly being a BYC would affect the trade exception/any possible S+T with him?

Yes

So helpful.

[Skates]

I would want Gordon and Jordan back

As players you might want them, but imagine with those names and your history, if we also kept Jamont Gordon your keyboard would immediately implode unless we gave them all very disparate nick names.

Since I have no idea how the BYC could or would affect any deal, or if there are any special considerations affecting BYC players in S&T's (hell, I'm a lawyer and this CBA stuff still mystifies me), I will ignore any such constraints in saying that Gordon, Jordan and Mobley would make sense from a talent perspective.  Mobley could start the year while Gordon gets up to speed.  Eric Gordon is said to be a defensively superior version of Ben Gordon (strong, long arms, likes playing D) and long range would be a nice complement to Thad and Brand.  Taking Mobley would be the sweetener for the Clips and Jordan would be the same for us.  Then you could definitely move Jason Smith for a swing-man/PG prospect without needing to get a superior shooter back.  We would still have three experienced bigs and two inexperienced but talented bigs in Jordan and Speights.

I also don't see us not matching for Iggy and am not worried about our GM getting out-thunk by the Clips.  The Clips have no reason to hate us, we did nothing wrong, GS actually offered Brand more money and there is no evidence that Stefanski did anything but be a good GM.  If they want revenge on Brand and go to this extent to get it I think that would truly qualify as pathetic.

And Tim Thomas is the current Clippers starting PF - with Thornton at the three

There is an answer in itslef as to why they would want to move salary to get a PF.

[TheGuiltyParty]

Personally, I'd rather have the better player at 12 than the inferior player at 8 - i'd like the sixers to be a 'big time' team in the league...

If "big time" teams in the league were determined by salary, then the Knicks would have a dynasty. I like Iguodala and I have said he's a better all-around player than Gordon but when I factor in Gordon's shooting ability along with the fact that he will cost you $4MIL less per season... it leads me to believe that the better fit  for long-term success is Gordon. Maybe Iguodala can become a player who earns $14MIL (end of contract) a year and you don't question whether he's worth it or not... but I get a knot in my stomach at the thought of us being held down by bad contracts once again. $14MIL for Iguodala is a bad deal when you look at what Caron Butler and Tayshaun Prince are getting paid. $14MIL per year is what LeBron, Carmelo, and Wade are being paid and we all know better than to say that Iguodala deserves to be put into that class.

I think the comment of having Gordon at 8 mil was in reference to his first yr salary (not his average salary).  He compared Andre at 12 to Gordon at 8.  The 12 for Andre I think is based on a first year salary with the Clips, not an average of 12.  The Sixers would most definitely match an average of 12/yr (would they match an average of over 14 mil if the Clips offer that?).  That would mean Gordon's 8 mil starting salary is about equal to the 5 yr/50 he turned down.  He may be willing to take it here if he's guarantee starting (something he was not guaranteed in Chicago obviously).

Exactly! Just because he starts at $8MIL it doesn't mean he gets $8MIL for each of the 5 seasons. He turned down 5 years/$50MIL and many columnists have written that he has to regret that. I'm fairly certain that would get job done if offered at this point.

[jemagee]

Yes - the clippers need a power forward - not a SG/SF - hence their interest in Andre Iguodala is probably only secondary, or even tertiary.

If "big time" teams in the league were determined by salary, then the Knicks would have a dynasty.

Yes, but see, the word inferior, you used the word inferior, i was reiterating it, the knicks didn't get BETTER players for their extra money they just got more expensive players, you yourself said ben gordon was inferior to andre iguodala, so like i said, the BETTER player at 12 versus the inferior player at 8.

Exactly! Just because he starts at $8MIL it doesn't mean he gets $8MIL for each of the 5 seasons. He turned down 5 years/$50MIL and many columnists have written that he has to regret that. I'm fairly certain that would get job done if offered at this point.

Except, what you wrote was 8mil/year versus 12mil/year, which i read to mean you would sign ben gordon for a contract that averaged 8 mil per year versus andre iguoudala at 12 million per year...just going on what you said, 8 mil/year to me is now the same as an 8 million starting salary, because that works out to more than 8 mil / year....that is to say there's a difference between 50mil/5 years (which works out to 10 mil per year) and saying 8mil/year...my apologies for misunderstanding what you meant based on what you wrote

[Skates]

Yes - the clippers need a power forward - not a SG/SF - hence their interest in Andre Iguodala is probably only secondary, or even tertiary.

With Smith, Okafor and possibly Deng ahead of him, dare we say quarternary?   

[TheGuiltyParty]

my apologies for misunderstanding what you meant based on what you wrote

NO, No, no... my apologies for believing you understood that players get pay raises. I will do my best to map out basic details from this point forth as to avoid any pain in your brain.

Yes, but see, the word inferior, you used the word inferior, i was reiterating it, the knicks didn't get BETTER players for their extra money they just got more expensive players, you yourself said ben gordon was inferior to andre iguodala, so like i said, the BETTER player at 12 versus the inferior player at 8.

This is silly. Just because a player is better, it doesn't mean that you should be willing to pay any amount to keep him. Again, a STARTING salary of $12MIL for Iguodala is vastly overpaying him and financially putting him in the class of Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, and LeBron James and not in the class with Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, and Josh Howard.

[jemagee]

NO, No, no... my apologies for believing you understood that players get pay raises. I will do my best to map out basic details from this point forth as to avoid any pain in your brain.

I understand that players get pay raises, but again, that's not what you said, you said 8 mil per year.

Elton brand didn't sign for 12 mil per year, he signed a 5 year deal with a base salary of 12 mil with raises.

When you said 8 mil per year, i assumed you mean, well, 8 mil per year, that the contracy would AVERAGE out to 8 mil per year...like when he turned down 50 mil over 5 years that averages out to 10 mil per year but his first year salary isn't 10 million...it's basic math really

This is silly. Just because a player is better, it doesn't mean that you should be willing to pay any amount to keep him. Again, a STARTING salary of $12MIL for Iguodala is vastly overpaying him and financially putting him in the class of Dwayne Wade, Carmelo Anthony, and LeBron James and not in the class with Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, and Josh Howard.

I don't like comparing contracts to the year before, or previous years, because the market is defined by this current year only, rightly or wrongly....and iguodalas agent, rightly or wrongly can point to andrew bogut and say 'are you telling me andre iguodala isn't worth as much as andrew bogut'?  I expect GMs all over the nba want to kill the new bucks GM for establishing such a ceiling for such a questionable talent...

it's similar to the NFL thing with rookie contracts, it seems every year the #1 pick gets more money than the #1 pick the year before...is it right or wrong?  That's up to you (and roger godell says it's bad, very very bad) but it's what the market bears.

If the clippers offer andre iguodala s STARTING SALARY of 12 million (see what I did there?) then the market has said he's worth 12 million dollars next season with subsequent raises, so then the sixers decide if he's worth that much, and in your mind it seems you'd rather take a risk with the inferior ben gordon than over paying the more talented andre iguodala to field a better roster...(you yourself said gordon was inferior to iguodala, so the sixers with gordon would be worse to the sixers with iguodala right?)...the numbers are stupid, i don't disagree, but i'd rather have an over paid BETTER player than the more 'properly' paid inferior player (especially since I'm still not 100% convinced of ben gordon in general)