Author Topic: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade  (Read 3876 times)

Offline ziggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1990
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - ziggythebeagle
    • View Profile
    • Email
JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« on: June 28, 2008, 01:50:42 PM »
What do you think of the trade, Mayo for Love and Mike Miller?

In the NBA draft you should always try to get difference makers, over more good but not great players.  Minny went against the conventional wisdom on the deal, but in this case I think they will be the better for it.  I really like Kevin Love, I think he will be better than many think, and Mike Miller is a very good pro.  Mayo could be a star, though.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Reality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2008, 02:34:02 PM »
good dice role IMO.
Do not know what Mayo will turn out to be, but even if he ends up being a star, Miller is an established good player and his age makes this deal fine.
Love, meh whatever.  He needs to bulk up big time but maybe with some gym time and roids he will.  Potential, but IMO wayy overated at #5.

I want to see what CDR ends up doing, the Memphis 6'7" guard.

Offline ziggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1990
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - ziggythebeagle
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2008, 06:15:08 PM »
good dice role IMO.
Do not know what Mayo will turn out to be, but even if he ends up being a star, Miller is an established good player and his age makes this deal fine.
Love, meh whatever.  He needs to bulk up big time but maybe with some gym time and roids he will.  Potential, but IMO wayy overated at #5.

I want to see what CDR ends up doing, the Memphis 6'7" guard.

Love is a great basketball player, but lets face it he is the Pillsbury Dough Boy.  Other PDB are Ostertag, Reeves, Will Perdue, Jon Koncak.  The difference is that Love can play.  He is a tremendous passer, and shooter, and rebounder.  If he was a little better athletically he would be an equal to Beasley.  He improved all through out his freshman year, and dominated many games, especially late in the season.  He is not the athlete Barkley was, but he has more skills than Barkley, and I think he will be the best "chubby" player since Sir Charles.  Not as good as Charles, but the best since 1984.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Derek Bodner

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
    • AOL Instant Messenger - dbodner22
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - dabodz
    • View Profile
    • http://www.phillyarena.com
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2008, 06:20:41 PM »
Love's got some "extra" weight, but he's pretty strong as well.

But I think Mayo's going to be the better player.  I was a Mayo doubter coming into the season, but he's impressed me in numerous ways.  His defense was worlds better than I expected, and he looks like he can not only come in and be a competent defender, but a very good one.  His court demeanor was much better than it was rumored to be in high school.  He's going to be a star, IMO, whereas I think Love's always going to be a defensive liability.

Offline ziggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1990
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - ziggythebeagle
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2008, 11:18:22 AM »
Love's got some "extra" weight, but he's pretty strong as well.

But I think Mayo's going to be the better player.  I was a Mayo doubter coming into the season, but he's impressed me in numerous ways.  His defense was worlds better than I expected, and he looks like he can not only come in and be a competent defender, but a very good one.  His court demeanor was much better than it was rumored to be in high school.  He's going to be a star, IMO, whereas I think Love's always going to be a defensive liability.

Derek,
I am interested in your thoughts overall on the draft.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Derek Bodner

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
    • AOL Instant Messenger - dbodner22
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - dabodz
    • View Profile
    • http://www.phillyarena.com
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 07:34:58 PM »
Love's got some "extra" weight, but he's pretty strong as well.

But I think Mayo's going to be the better player.  I was a Mayo doubter coming into the season, but he's impressed me in numerous ways.  His defense was worlds better than I expected, and he looks like he can not only come in and be a competent defender, but a very good one.  His court demeanor was much better than it was rumored to be in high school.  He's going to be a star, IMO, whereas I think Love's always going to be a defensive liability.

Derek,
I am interested in your thoughts overall on the draft.

http://blog.derekbodner.com/2008/06/30/thoughts-on-the-nba-draft/

Quote
# I take Derrick Rose with my first pick. I?ll make another post about this shortly, but I do agree with him as the top selection.
# I don?t really like the Mayo/Love swap for either teams. Minnesota got a coup trading some bad contracts for the guy they wanted and another contributor (Mike Miller). That being said, I do think Mayo is the considerably better talent. Love?s foot speed is always going to scare me at the next level. Whereas I think Mayo will be an above average (and possibly very good) wing defender, I think Love?s always going to be a liability defensively, particularly on the pick and roll. I do think Love?s going to be a good player, I just don?t think he has great player potential because of his defense. Meanwhile, I like that Memphis got the better player, but with their already crowded backcourt, was that a position of need? Plus the bad contracts they received are going to hamper their rebuilding. Wasn?t the reason Gasol was traded to get yourselves financial flexibility? Will Mayo even want to be there in 4 years? I don?t know. Memphis could be in for a disastrous few years.
# Selecting Westbrook at 4 would scare me. Westbrook is a fine prospect, and may very well turn into one of the better players in the draft, but he has a LOT of question marks. He did increase his level of play when Collison was out earlier in the year, but that was a very small sample size. After playing very little his freshman year, he had a relatively small role in the Bruins half court offense this year, getting nearly 30% of his offense in transition. Will he have the playmaking ability to play the point full time? Will he have the size and outside shot to play the SG full time? That?s a lot of question marks for a guard drafted 4th overall.
# On Seattle, Ibaka?s a nice talent at that level in the draft, but will he even come over? Seems like a huge risk, when there were other talented players available.
# Count me as one of the few not in complete love for Danilo Gallinari. It?s not that I don?t think he can be a productive player in the NBA, he certainly can. He has a very diverse offensive skillset. But just like Love, his foot speed is going to be a huge, huge concern. Can you really build your team around a wing player with mediocre (or worse) defense? That?s what NY is going to try to accomplish. Good luck to them, but I don?t see it. That?s not even questioning whether he has the ballhandling to create opportunities for his teammates.
# I thought Eric Gordon went at the right spot in the draft. Hopefully they don?t try to pigeon hole him into playing the point, which he?s not.
# I don?t think Joe Alexander is worth his draft position. I liked Alexander as a prospect when he was in the teens, but at 8? I know he?s a great athlete, and the combine numbers were freakish. But at some point, you have to play basketball too. It?s not that Joe can?t play, he?s definitely got some skills. But we?re talking about a SF with questionable ball handling, an inconsistent jump shot, and worries about his lateral quickness defending NBA 3?s.
# DJ Augustin?s a head scratcher at 9. I do like his overall PG play, but his size is a huge, huge question mark going forward. Not only will he probably struggle defensively because of it, but he may find it harder to get his shot off in the pro?s. You don?t want to put too much into one game, but his game against Memphis has to raise at least a yellow flag about this with the struggle he had against the taller, more athletic, Derrick Rose. And when you just drafted a PG top 5 a few years ago? Head scratcher.
# I think Brook Lopez is a good value pick at 10. He?s not a superstar, but in a league starved for coordinated size, I have little doubt Brook will be a starter, and possibly even an all-star once or twice down the line.
# At what point do we admit that Kevin Pritchard is making other GM?s look foolish? Ending the season with the 13th pick, and all of a sudden ending the draft with Bayless and Batum is masterful. Not only is Bayless an incredible talent for where he went, but he fits Portland incredibly well. There?s no question Bayless has the tools to score in this league, and score he will. The questions came over whether he had the instincts to play the 1 or the size to play the 2. With Brandon Roy, it won?t matter. Brandon can take the distributing pressure off Bayless, allow him to score, and Roy can defend the SG position. Absolutely perfect.

(And I do think Bayless has a chance to become a good distributor as well. The only real concern I had was a team drafting him to be their SG, as I felt he?d struggle defensively. Problem solved).
# I thought Thompson went high. I think Sacramento probably panicked when both Augustin and Bayless went 9 and 11. With Indiana just getting Ford, they probably figured at least Augustin would be there at 12, and got absolutely giddy when Bayless fell out of the top 10. I just don?t think Thompson?s going to be that productive of a pro. I don?t see his post game translating, I think he?s primarily going to be a face-up PF in the NBA. And I think his frame is going to become an issue. He might develop into a starter, but I think his potential is limited.
# Randolph and Rush went about where I expected them to. I don?t think Rush is an answer for Indy, but he?s at least a piece. Had they not just traded for Ford, I thought Bayless would have been a much better piece for them. But I don?t think Ford and Bayless could have co-existed (you know how I said Roy might be the perfect SG for Bayless to play next to? Ford might be the worst PG for him to play next to. Oil and water). Randolph just worries me as a prospect. His athleticism, length, body control and ability to handle the ball in the open court are things you drool over. His lack of consistent perimeter game makes him a questionable fit at SF, and his 197 lb frame make it hard to imagine him as a PF prospect. I guess he was drafted to make Brandan Wright feel better about his muscle development.
# I thought Robin Lopez went too high. Just too much talent left to draft a role player. I don?t see him being much more than a bench player throughout his career. A good one, but I shoot for a starter here.
# In a similar vein, I thought Hibbert went about where he should have.
# Next you have the project PF?s. I won?t spend too much time on Speights, as I?ll do that in a later post, but I did have him as the highest rated out of Speights/Hickson/Arthur/McGee/Koufos/Jordan. This is pretty much the list of ?guys who should have gone back to school? portion of the draft.
# Next on my list was Hickson. He?s a project (little face-up game, work in progress jump shot, bad team defense), but he has one one skill set that is extremely valuable in today?s NBA. His footwork in the post was as good as anyone in this draft. Had he gone back to school, he has lottery talent.
# McGee intrigues me, but he?s a guy who to me has a much higher chance of being a career backup than he does of putting all his physical tools together. He just has very little offensive game, and even his rebounding is suspect at times. Clearly there?s room in this league for a shotblocker, but I thought he went a few spots too high. He joins a long line of specialist big men at Washington, all of whom aren?t good enough to be a complete player.
# Arthur?s drop was surprising. The concerns about his Kidney I thought were overblown. The bigger concern to me was his size (6′8.5″) and weight (216 lbs). Particularly the latter. If he can put in 15-20 lbs in the next few years, he?s going to make a lot of people look foolish. Had he gone back to Kansas as the focal point of the offense I thought he could have gone a long way towards quelling some of the fears about his inconsistency. Again, he probably shouldn?t have stayed in the draft.
# Koufos probably had the least to gain by returning to school. I think he?s an interesting prospect offensively, and that jump shot is one of the prettier ones to come out in recent years for a big man, and I think he might have a fair (but not huge) amount of success in the post. But his defense and rebounding are huge question marks. And is he a good fit with Okur? I?m not sure I see it. Still, a nice value pick this late in the draft.
# I didn?t like Donte Green as a prospect in the teens. His shot selection and defense were too big of question marks that I didn?t think had a great chance of being corrected. At 28? Great value, as he clearly has talent. I do think Memphis is a bad fit for him though, and he may be forced to try to play out of position at PF to get some minutes.
# Another player I hated in the teens (or even higher as he was considered top 5 at one point) is DeAndre Jordan, who was the epitome of project and had no business being in this draft. He didn?t have the basketball skills, basketball IQ, or fundamentals to be considered a top prospect. And he found this out the hard way. That being said, someone with his size, length, and athleticism is a great find at the un-guaranteed contract of 35.
# One last player comment, put me on the Alexis Ajinca fan club. I got a chance to watch a lot of tape on him, and he?s not a 7′ stiff. His jump shot is consistent, and should be a weapon in the NBA, and his potential as a shot blocker with that wingspan is obvious. He even has some ballhandling, and a little bit of post moves (although he?s going to have a devil of a time establishing and holding post position, with that high center of gravity and very slight frame). He?s the type that if he goes top 10, he has a high chance of being a bust in a few years. But at 20? Very little ?bustability?.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 07:47:55 PM by Derek Bodner »

Offline ziggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1990
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - ziggythebeagle
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 12:33:14 AM »

http://blog.derekbodner.com/2008/06/30/thoughts-on-the-nba-draft/

Quote
# I take Derrick Rose with my first pick. I?ll make another post about this shortly, but I do agree with him as the top selection.
# I don?t really like the Mayo/Love swap for either teams. Minnesota got a coup trading some bad contracts for the guy they wanted and another contributor (Mike Miller). That being said, I do think Mayo is the considerably better talent. Love?s foot speed is always going to scare me at the next level. Whereas I think Mayo will be an above average (and possibly very good) wing defender, I think Love?s always going to be a liability defensively, particularly on the pick and roll. I do think Love?s going to be a good player, I just don?t think he has great player potential because of his defense. Meanwhile, I like that Memphis got the better player, but with their already crowded backcourt, was that a position of need? Plus the bad contracts they received are going to hamper their rebuilding. Wasn?t the reason Gasol was traded to get yourselves financial flexibility? Will Mayo even want to be there in 4 years? I don?t know. Memphis could be in for a disastrous few years.
# Selecting Westbrook at 4 would scare me. Westbrook is a fine prospect, and may very well turn into one of the better players in the draft, but he has a LOT of question marks. He did increase his level of play when Collison was out earlier in the year, but that was a very small sample size. After playing very little his freshman year, he had a relatively small role in the Bruins half court offense this year, getting nearly 30% of his offense in transition. Will he have the playmaking ability to play the point full time? Will he have the size and outside shot to play the SG full time? That?s a lot of question marks for a guard drafted 4th overall.
# On Seattle, Ibaka?s a nice talent at that level in the draft, but will he even come over? Seems like a huge risk, when there were other talented players available.
# Count me as one of the few not in complete love for Danilo Gallinari. It?s not that I don?t think he can be a productive player in the NBA, he certainly can. He has a very diverse offensive skillset. But just like Love, his foot speed is going to be a huge, huge concern. Can you really build your team around a wing player with mediocre (or worse) defense? That?s what NY is going to try to accomplish. Good luck to them, but I don?t see it. That?s not even questioning whether he has the ballhandling to create opportunities for his teammates.
# I thought Eric Gordon went at the right spot in the draft. Hopefully they don?t try to pigeon hole him into playing the point, which he?s not.
# I don?t think Joe Alexander is worth his draft position. I liked Alexander as a prospect when he was in the teens, but at 8? I know he?s a great athlete, and the combine numbers were freakish. But at some point, you have to play basketball too. It?s not that Joe can?t play, he?s definitely got some skills. But we?re talking about a SF with questionable ball handling, an inconsistent jump shot, and worries about his lateral quickness defending NBA 3?s.
# DJ Augustin?s a head scratcher at 9. I do like his overall PG play, but his size is a huge, huge question mark going forward. Not only will he probably struggle defensively because of it, but he may find it harder to get his shot off in the pro?s. You don?t want to put too much into one game, but his game against Memphis has to raise at least a yellow flag about this with the struggle he had against the taller, more athletic, Derrick Rose. And when you just drafted a PG top 5 a few years ago? Head scratcher.
# I think Brook Lopez is a good value pick at 10. He?s not a superstar, but in a league starved for coordinated size, I have little doubt Brook will be a starter, and possibly even an all-star once or twice down the line.
# At what point do we admit that Kevin Pritchard is making other GM?s look foolish? Ending the season with the 13th pick, and all of a sudden ending the draft with Bayless and Batum is masterful. Not only is Bayless an incredible talent for where he went, but he fits Portland incredibly well. There?s no question Bayless has the tools to score in this league, and score he will. The questions came over whether he had the instincts to play the 1 or the size to play the 2. With Brandon Roy, it won?t matter. Brandon can take the distributing pressure off Bayless, allow him to score, and Roy can defend the SG position. Absolutely perfect.

(And I do think Bayless has a chance to become a good distributor as well. The only real concern I had was a team drafting him to be their SG, as I felt he?d struggle defensively. Problem solved).
# I thought Thompson went high. I think Sacramento probably panicked when both Augustin and Bayless went 9 and 11. With Indiana just getting Ford, they probably figured at least Augustin would be there at 12, and got absolutely giddy when Bayless fell out of the top 10. I just don?t think Thompson?s going to be that productive of a pro. I don?t see his post game translating, I think he?s primarily going to be a face-up PF in the NBA. And I think his frame is going to become an issue. He might develop into a starter, but I think his potential is limited.
# Randolph and Rush went about where I expected them to. I don?t think Rush is an answer for Indy, but he?s at least a piece. Had they not just traded for Ford, I thought Bayless would have been a much better piece for them. But I don?t think Ford and Bayless could have co-existed (you know how I said Roy might be the perfect SG for Bayless to play next to? Ford might be the worst PG for him to play next to. Oil and water). Randolph just worries me as a prospect. His athleticism, length, body control and ability to handle the ball in the open court are things you drool over. His lack of consistent perimeter game makes him a questionable fit at SF, and his 197 lb frame make it hard to imagine him as a PF prospect. I guess he was drafted to make Brandan Wright feel better about his muscle development.
# I thought Robin Lopez went too high. Just too much talent left to draft a role player. I don?t see him being much more than a bench player throughout his career. A good one, but I shoot for a starter here.
# In a similar vein, I thought Hibbert went about where he should have.
# Next you have the project PF?s. I won?t spend too much time on Speights, as I?ll do that in a later post, but I did have him as the highest rated out of Speights/Hickson/Arthur/McGee/Koufos/Jordan. This is pretty much the list of ?guys who should have gone back to school? portion of the draft.
# Next on my list was Hickson. He?s a project (little face-up game, work in progress jump shot, bad team defense), but he has one one skill set that is extremely valuable in today?s NBA. His footwork in the post was as good as anyone in this draft. Had he gone back to school, he has lottery talent.
# McGee intrigues me, but he?s a guy who to me has a much higher chance of being a career backup than he does of putting all his physical tools together. He just has very little offensive game, and even his rebounding is suspect at times. Clearly there?s room in this league for a shotblocker, but I thought he went a few spots too high. He joins a long line of specialist big men at Washington, all of whom aren?t good enough to be a complete player.
# Arthur?s drop was surprising. The concerns about his Kidney I thought were overblown. The bigger concern to me was his size (6′8.5″) and weight (216 lbs). Particularly the latter. If he can put in 15-20 lbs in the next few years, he?s going to make a lot of people look foolish. Had he gone back to Kansas as the focal point of the offense I thought he could have gone a long way towards quelling some of the fears about his inconsistency. Again, he probably shouldn?t have stayed in the draft.
# Koufos probably had the least to gain by returning to school. I think he?s an interesting prospect offensively, and that jump shot is one of the prettier ones to come out in recent years for a big man, and I think he might have a fair (but not huge) amount of success in the post. But his defense and rebounding are huge question marks. And is he a good fit with Okur? I?m not sure I see it. Still, a nice value pick this late in the draft.
# I didn?t like Donte Green as a prospect in the teens. His shot selection and defense were too big of question marks that I didn?t think had a great chance of being corrected. At 28? Great value, as he clearly has talent. I do think Memphis is a bad fit for him though, and he may be forced to try to play out of position at PF to get some minutes.
# Another player I hated in the teens (or even higher as he was considered top 5 at one point) is DeAndre Jordan, who was the epitome of project and had no business being in this draft. He didn?t have the basketball skills, basketball IQ, or fundamentals to be considered a top prospect. And he found this out the hard way. That being said, someone with his size, length, and athleticism is a great find at the un-guaranteed contract of 35.
# One last player comment, put me on the Alexis Ajinca fan club. I got a chance to watch a lot of tape on him, and he?s not a 7′ stiff. His jump shot is consistent, and should be a weapon in the NBA, and his potential as a shot blocker with that wingspan is obvious. He even has some ballhandling, and a little bit of post moves (although he?s going to have a devil of a time establishing and holding post position, with that high center of gravity and very slight frame). He?s the type that if he goes top 10, he has a high chance of being a bust in a few years. But at 20? Very little ?bustability?.

Thanks Derek, I always appreciate hearing your thoughts.

I understand your point on Mayo, I think he could be great.  I just think many people are undervaluing Love.  He has his flaws, but he is a surprisingly good athlete.  He went 35" in vertical leap at the combine, which was well into the top 1/2 of the players, same as Beasley.  He doesn't have a huge reach, but it is more than acceptable.  I understand your concerns about D, but there have been a lot of players who were not quick nor particularly good defenders who were great players, including his new GM, and his teammate in Boston the GM at Indy.  I think he will be a very good pro, but Mayo has a higher ceiling.

I liked Bayless as a pick.  I believe that between him and Roy they can be a very effective backcourt.  Read somewhere that statistically Bayless projects to be similar to Barbosa, or Ben Gordan, two players Portland tried hard to trade for before the draft.  I think Bayless will be very effective in the pick and roll, because if the guard goes under the pick he shoots over the top, and if he goes over the pick, Bayless goes to the basket, giving LMA and Oden a mismatch against a guard.  This will work very effectively as well in a pick and pop with LMA, Outlaw, Webster and Frye.  I like that he goes hard to the rim, and can finish at the basket, and I think he will be effective in an uptempo game.  When the Blazers need to become more deliberate, and have a pace for running a set offense, then I think you will see Brandon Roy initiate the offense.  He is very good in the pick and roll, and feeding the post because of his height, and he is also very good with his hesitation/change pace moves.  He uses this to create space for himself and others like LMA and Outlaw, and I think he can make Martell Webster more effective.

I know nothing of Batum, and of all the great things KP has done I am getting a little frustrated with the buy a pick and use it on a Euro who may or may not work out.  It is OK to do that once in a while, but this is the 5th time he has done it, and right now it looks like only Fernandez is even a likely rotation player.  The total cost of all these moves could well end up being $30 million for just one guy.  We went though this spending unwisely phase once before I would just as soon not do it again.  Now maybe Batum will work out great and that would be super, but personally I would have preferred Arthur.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil

Offline Skandery

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1710
    • MSN Messenger - skandery27@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 12:39:41 AM »
I'm in complete agreement with Ziggy.  Kevin Pritchard for all the good he did getting Jerryd Bayless (which was a coup), WHY Nicolas Batum (a raw wing with questionable medical ailments out of the french league) over Darrelle Arthur.  Pritchard had a good draft, it could have been an AWESOME draft. 

I'm not that psyched over Koufos for Utah.  He's like a suckier version of Mehmet Okur, maybe O'Connor wants to package him (or Okur) for a 3-point shooting two guard who can handle.  I'm actually more excited about Tomic but he's a couple of years out.  The other guy I have no idea.
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline Lurker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3705
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 08:49:15 AM »
I know the Spurs were high on Batum and probably would have taken him if Pritchard didn't the pick before thiers.  And Batum is available to come over now which means Portland should sign him...even if they assign him to the NBDL for a season.  Leaving players in Europe to develop has become extremely risky with the rookie scale contract and the drop in the dollar.
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
-Moody Blues

Offline Derek Bodner

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
    • AOL Instant Messenger - dbodner22
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - dabodz
    • View Profile
    • http://www.phillyarena.com
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 09:22:18 AM »
Batum's really not that raw.  There have been two questions on him:
- Doesn't have that "killer instinct".  You know, that same criticism of Rudy Gay (who's now averaging 20/6).
- His heart condition (which he has had tested, and shouldn't be an issue).

He's a great pick that late in the draft.  He's not all that raw, is very skilled, and athletic.  I think either Batum or Arthur would have been great picks at that stage of the draft.

Offline Ted

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
    • AOL Instant Messenger - Rustedhart
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - ruteha
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 11:14:23 AM »
I'm in complete agreement with Ziggy.  Kevin Pritchard for all the good he did getting Jerryd Bayless (which was a coup), WHY Nicolas Batum (a raw wing with questionable medical ailments out of the french league) over Darrelle Arthur.  Pritchard had a good draft, it could have been an AWESOME draft. 

I'm not that psyched over Koufos for Utah.  He's like a suckier version of Mehmet Okur, maybe O'Connor wants to package him (or Okur) for a 3-point shooting two guard who can handle.  I'm actually more excited about Tomic but he's a couple of years out.  The other guy I have no idea.

With Koufos, the Jazz picked the best talent available (in their analysis) at the time. I'm not too upset about the pick, and I am actually psyched about Tomic. The guy reportedly has some serious tools and hopefully will get better in the next couple of years in Europe. I'm actually kind of glad the Jazz didn't pick another SG. I think Brewer is going to get better, and they needed to leave room for Morris Almond. Remember him? He lit up the NBDL (led the league in scoring) and has a deadly jumper from just about anywhere. The NBDL is the NBDL, but scoring 50+ at any level means you can put the ball in the hole. The Jazz need to make room for him, and soon. I think CJ Miles may be the casualty.

Also, I think we're going to lose (not loose) Boozer. I don't know why, but I just have this gut feeling that he may be dumb enough to think he's good enough to be as good as he is without DWill. Good news: DWill will be signing a max extension soon, and he is living in Utah full-time. Something no Jazz star in recent memory has done. I mean, a freaking NBA star is living HERE in the summer. I don't get it, but I love this guy.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Wolverine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
    • AOL Instant Messenger - CardsMizzou
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 12:04:00 PM »
Not all that high on the Suns' pick of Robin Lopez.

I really wanted Brandon Rush, who would've fit into the system and complemented the other players perfectly.  Alas, it was not to be, but I still think that the 15th pick was too high to draft a back-up (or someone who won't be a starter down the road).  Lopez will be effective in his role (a high energy, good defender off the bench) and it never hurts to get a big man who fits that description, but it was a waste of a top-15 pick.

He's not a starter.
This message was brought to you by Diet Dr. Pepper.  It tastes more like regular Dr. Pepper.

Cards' 2010 regular season record: 50-41

Offline Skandery

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1710
    • MSN Messenger - skandery27@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 12:26:28 PM »
Quote
Not all that high on the Suns' pick of Robin Lopez.

I agree Wolverine.  I think they could have traded down a couple spots and still drafted him if that was the guy they wanted after Rush.  Their front office should have had a contingency plan to do that with some team as soon as Brandon Rush was gone (which ended up being the case).

One intriguing move they could've done is seen if Charlotte is stupid enough to take the 15th pick (+ like Diaw or Barbosa) for Charlotte 20th pick via Denver (+ Gerald Wallace).  Reportedly Gerald Wallace as fallen out of favor with Michael Jordan (<-- what an idiot as a GM).
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 01:58:58 PM »
# I thought Thompson went high. I think Sacramento probably panicked when both Augustin and Bayless went 9 and 11. With Indiana just getting Ford, they probably figured at least Augustin would be there at 12, and got absolutely giddy when Bayless fell out of the top 10. I just don?t think Thompson?s going to be that productive of a pro. I don?t see his post game translating, I think he?s primarily going to be a face-up PF in the NBA. And I think his frame is going to become an issue. He might develop into a starter, but I think his potential is limited.

First off, Derek, thanks for your thoughts on the draft. As always, you make interesting observations and the only real complaint I have is that you don't do it often enough around here.

That said, I think you are a bit off on your assessment of Thompson. Jason is truly an unknown basketball player coming into the NBA. Being from Rider, no one has seen much of him, though your being close by, I would guess you may have a wider look at him then many others. He started out being a point guard and grew a bit too large to play that position now. His major problem is that he has not used his body enough and needs to learn how. At 6'11" and 250 pounds, he certainly is not a weedy type, like Anthony Randolph. He also participated in every NBA pre draft workout he could make. It was at one of these he caught the eye of Petrie.

And that is where you really must stop and think about the choice. Petrie, from what we have observed here in Sacramento, has never "panicked" in his entire life. If there is someone who prepares more, reads about players more, watches tape of players more and gets a consensus from his entire staff more then Geoff - all that person could actually do is equal what Petrie does prior to drafting a player. Thompson was the Kings' choice, if they had to draft someone other then a point guard. They were prepared prior to the draft for any contingency, including not getting the point guard the team needed. Since we are short on the front line as well, once the points were gone, the entire King's think tank, as a group, decided as a consensus to draft Thompson at number 12.

Apparently the Kings were not the only team that had moved Jason up the draft board either, as the Warriors (for sure) and Phoenix had him rated at least this high.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Re: JN - Thoughts on the TWolves trade
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 02:03:15 PM »
Not all that high on the Suns' pick of Robin Lopez.

I really wanted Brandon Rush, who would've fit into the system and complemented the other players perfectly.  Alas, it was not to be, but I still think that the 15th pick was too high to draft a back-up (or someone who won't be a starter down the road).  Lopez will be effective in his role (a high energy, good defender off the bench) and it never hurts to get a big man who fits that description, but it was a waste of a top-15 pick.

He's not a starter.

Mr Wolverine -

Why must you think "starter" from a player drafted at 15? A solid backup at that position is not a negative, and if Lopez continues to be defensive-minded in the pros, he is going to be considered an excellent pick by the Suns.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."