USA Mens Team: Beijing 2008

[Skandery]

The Roster

PG: Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Chris Paul
SG: Kobe Bryant, Michael Redd, Dwayne Wade
SF: LeBron James, Tayshaun Prince, Carmelo Anthony
PF: Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh
 C: Dwight Howard

There you have it, guys.  So . . . you think we'll bring home the Gold Medal in Beijing.

Likes:  Obviously I love that you have some sort of cohesion to the team with players like Tayshaun Prince, Michael Redd, and Jason Kidd.  Players with specifically defined roles that excel in those roles.  I love the fact that Kidd is on the team to provide the leadership that somehow eludes guys like LeBron, Carmelo, Wade, etc.  You have creators that can turn any offensive possesion into a good one, the primary one being Kobe.  Though LeBron, Wade, Paul, and Deron Williams are no slouches in that department.  The speed and athleticism on this team is unreal.  When you're two slowest guys are Carlos Boozer and Dwight Howard, you are FAST! 

Dislikes:  The team still lacks shooters.  Michael Redd and Deron Williams are the only, truly, bona-fide three point shooters.  After those two, you've dropped down to Kobe Bryant as your next best three-point shooter.  That's shaky.  Defense is another area I question.  Dwight Howard gets a lot of blocks but probably isn't fundamentally sound defensively the way Tyson Chandler is, same with Paul (and steals).  You have Tayshaun Prince, you have Deron Williams, and you have Kobe Bryant (who has been known to play inspired defense when up to the challenge), and that's about it!  LeBron, Wade, Anthony, Bosh, Redd, defense isn't exactly their forte.  Kidd's defense has taken a substantial hit with age.  While Boozer plain just can't defend, period.  Size, this isn't as much of an issue because we have BIG shooting guards and small forwards, but Dwight Howard is the only player you can remotely make a case for being a real Center . . . a little unsettling for me. 

Prediction:  I think Team USA wins the Gold Medal.  Probably because they're might be rioting in the streets if we don't.   Mostly because the leadership of Kidd and the refusal of Kobe to let a game go if it gets close.  Basically I think if we lose its going to be a blow-out, and I don't see that happening.  So we'll pull out the close ones because I think every person will defer to Kobe Bryant (and rightly so) to seal the deal--perhaps maybe with the exception of Carmelo Anthony and I hope Krzyzewski benches him if he starts playing selfish or stupid. 

On the off-chance that Kobe reverts to selfish and quits making the right decisions, this team will struggle.

On the off-chance that Michael Redd and Tayshaun Prince play out of their minds and figure prominently (this is where Krzyzewski might screw up) while Boozer and Howard have a banner Olympic season.  This team will coast as easily as the 92 Dream Team did. 

             

[Reality]

Don't know enough about the other teams.
Disagree about Kidd, i think his being a step slow now just makes him not the same.
Paul will do great tho.
Agree with everything else.
Except they will be nowhere near the '92 cruise to gold, other teams are so much better.

[rickortreat]

I really think that Kidd is a weak link on the team and should not be on it, let alone starting.  But with CP3 there along with Deron that position is covered.  AI would have been a better choice than Kidd by far!

I also think that Ray Allen deserves a shot at the 2 guard, even though Kobe is the obvious and correct choice.  I would also rather have Paul Pierce than Tayshaun Prince, but since LeBron has that spot again no real complaints.

Boozer and Bosch are fine at PF, but I'd really, really rather have KG, and Howard although a good choice at Center, is pretty much all alone.  Who is his backup, and who is he going up against? 

I don't know what the rest of the world will come at us with, but I'm a little concerned about the lack of rebounding and the lack of depth at the 4 and 5 spots. Everyone has good players at the 1,2 and 3, even though I feel very good about ours.  But at the big spots I'm just not confident enough.

Let me ask you this, how do you think this team would do against Boston?

[Skandery]

Rick, I sometimes wonder what planet you are on.  Jeezo crow I'm overwhelmed at exactly where to start here.

I really think that Kidd is a weak link on the team and should not be on it, let alone starting.  But with CP3 there along with Deron that position is covered.  AI would have been a better choice than Kidd by far!  I also think that Ray Allen deserves a shot at the 2 guard, even though Kobe is the obvious and correct choice.  I would also rather have Paul Pierce than Tayshaun Prince, but since LeBron has that spot again no real complaints.

Kidd is the weak link even though the 2006 World Championship team that didn't have Kidd (and DID have Iverson) couldn't friggin' beat Greece in the semi-Finals while the 2007 America's Championship team that did have Kidd won 1st place beating opponents by an average of 40!!!  To say nothing of the fact that Kidd is 44-0 in international play . . . . and Iverson is like 12-4 which makes him one of the losingest NBA Olympians in HISTORY! ! ! . . .

. . . An honor he shares with none other than Paul Pierce.  The pre-eminent cancer on the ill-fated 2002 World Championship team that finished 6th in the tournament.  Let me repeat that -- 6TH.  Pierce was downright insubordinate and virtually poisoned the team atmosphere to the point of no return.  And you want him in place of Prince: one of the most intelligent, most coachable, most unselfish, glue guys to come out of American collegiate athletics in a generation.  You leave me at a complete loss, Rick!

And Ray Allen said he didn't want to commit to Team USA preferring to rest for the summers, I'm pretty sure Colangelo was ready and willing to give him that shot you think he deserves.   

Boozer and Bosch are fine at PF, but I'd really, really rather have KG, and Howard although a good choice at Center, is pretty much all alone.  Who is his backup, and who is he going up against?

 

Who wouldn't want Garnett!?!  Once again and like Ray Allen, the guy said no, he didn't want to commit for 3 years.  Resting his aging body for the summers in preparation for that elusive championship was his #1 commitment.  Leading the 2000 team to a Gold medal was enough for him, Garnett has repeatedly stated this.

Let me ask you this, how do you think this team would do against Boston?

They would kill Boston. 
I mean if a ragtag, second-rate bunch like Atlanta took Boston to 7 games, should this question even be asked?

[rickortreat]

Rick, I sometimes wonder what planet you are on.  Jeezo crow I'm overwhelmed at exactly where to start here.

I really think that Kidd is a weak link on the team and should not be on it, let alone starting.  But with CP3 there along with Deron that position is covered.  AI would have been a better choice than Kidd by far!  I also think that Ray Allen deserves a shot at the 2 guard, even though Kobe is the obvious and correct choice.  I would also rather have Paul Pierce than Tayshaun Prince, but since LeBron has that spot again no real complaints.

Kidd is the weak link even though the 2006 World Championship team that didn't have Kidd (and DID have Iverson) couldn't friggin' beat Greece in the semi-Finals while the 2007 America's Championship team that did have Kidd won 1st place beating opponents by an average of 40!!!  To say nothing of the fact that Kidd is 44-0 in international play . . . . and Iverson is like 12-4 which makes him one of the losingest NBA Olympians in HISTORY! ! ! . . .

Just which part of Jason Kidd is DONE, don't you get?  He was overwhelmed in the playoffs this year, didn't make Dallas better, but made them worse and hadn't accomplished anything in NJ with VC and RJ in years.  Was slow on defense and couldn't make a bucket to save his life, and genius that you are want him on the team instead of the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA!  Who would like nothing better than the opportunity to wipe that blemish from his record by winning.  You can say what else you like about AI, but he gives his all every time on the floor and has more heart than Jason Kidd can dream of.


. . . An honor he shares with none other than Paul Pierce.  The pre-eminent cancer on the ill-fated 2002 World Championship team that finished 6th in the tournament.  Let me repeat that -- 6TH.  Pierce was downright insubordinate and virtually poisoned the team atmosphere to the point of no return.  And you want him in place of Prince: one of the most intelligent, most coachable, most unselfish, glue guys to come out of American collegiate athletics in a generation.  You leave me at a complete loss, Rick!

Well stay lost then, Pierce was really the MVP of the Finals, scoring at will, and stopping Kobe Bryant from taking over the game.  And unlike Prince who is tall and gangly but absurdly skinny, Pierce can rebound and get physical.  Prince will get run over in the Olympics. You won't find anyone on this board who will say Prince is a better player than Pierce.  Especially since he outplayed him so badly when the Celtics defeated the Pistons!

And Ray Allen said he didn't want to commit to Team USA preferring to rest for the summers, I'm pretty sure Colangelo was ready and willing to give him that shot you think he deserves.   

Boozer and Bosch are fine at PF, but I'd really, really rather have KG, and Howard although a good choice at Center, is pretty much all alone.  Who is his backup, and who is he going up against?

 

Who wouldn't want Garnett!?!  Once again and like Ray Allen, the guy said no, he didn't want to commit for 3 years.  Resting his aging body for the summers in preparation for that elusive championship was his #1 commitment.  Leading the 2000 team to a Gold medal was enough for him, Garnett has repeatedly stated this.

Let me ask you this, how do you think this team would do against Boston?

They would kill Boston. 
I mean if a ragtag, second-rate bunch like Atlanta took Boston to 7 games, should this question even be asked?

Yes it does.  The Celtics defeated the Lakers, who outplayed everyone else in the West and it wasn't even close. How will Howard hold up against Kendrik Perkins, as Boozer and Bosch would get overwhelmed by KG?  LeBron and Carmello are great players, but Pierce can stay with them as well as anyone, on both ends of the floor.  Ray Allen did a fine job on Kobe at times as well, and requires constant attention.  Rondo would run Kidd right off the floor, but he's at best a toss-up against Paul and Deron.

Since Allen and Garnett didn't want to play, I can't complain to USA basketball about it, but IMO they should go, and it is in the best interest of the NBA, the Olympics and USA Basketball that they do go (not to mention their careers!).  These games come around once every 4 years, and I'm sick of the US getting embarrassed in Int'l. competition.  It pisses me off that these guys would rather take the summer off instead. They get to make millions of dollars for playing a kids game, and they can't give the world a summer or two out of their careers?  What happened to the idea of giving back?

[Skandery]

To sum up: 

2007 USA Team (Kidd on the roster, AI NOT on the roster) = Record  of 7-0 (Gold)(margin of victory = 40)
2006 USA Team (Kidd NOT on the roster, AI on the roster) = Record of 7-1 (Bronze)
2004 USA Team (Kidd NOT on the roster, AI on the roster) = Record of 5-3 (Bronze)
2002 USA Team (Kidd NOT on the roster, Pierce on the roster) = Record of 5-3 (6th place)
2000 USA Team (Kidd on the roster, AI + Pierce NOT on the roster) = Record of 8-0 (Gold)

You want AI and Pierce on the roster, and Kidd OFF the roster. 

Concerning NBA Basketball -- before being handed Garnett and Ray Allen, Pierce was one of the losingest Boston Celtics players in the long history of the franchise.  Tayshaun has NEVER ONCE IN HIS 6 YEAR CAREER NOT BEEN IN AT LEAST THE EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS!!!!!! 

You think Pierce is more of a winner than Prince!

And the cherry on top is wondering how Dwight Howard will hold up against Kendrick Perkins, not questioning what LeBron will do to Pierce (on a stacked roster) and Kobe will do to Ray Allen (on a stacked roster), and Rajon Rondo/Deron Williams/Chris Paul being a toss up!!


 
 
 

Take your show on the road, Rick, this material is golden!!  I almost wish I could see whether you can say these things with a straight face.

 

[rickortreat]

All you keep showing me is old history.

Kidd can't play anymore.  Don't you know what DONE means?  He's barely a back-up guard, not an all-star.  And you want him above Pierce and AI, who have had better stats for years.  You won't find another poster who thinks that Kidd is a better player than Pierce or AI, and no one would consider a trade for either player straight up with Kidd!

I was going to see the only ones who can't see Kidd is finished as a top-level player is NBA basketball, but apparently you too still think he is a good player. He hasn't been an upper level player in 5 years, and is no longer good enough to even be a piece on an NBA championship team.

And although Prince is a well respected player, no one would take him straight up in a trade for Pierce.  The reason is simple.  The players I recommended are better, hands down! 

And Boston's defense is their strength, something a team of all-star players who have only played a few games will never be able to master or manage.  The Celtics stopped Kobe and they also stopped LeBron along the way to their championship.  IF you could allow the Celtics to represent the USA I think they would win the gold medal without any trouble, on the strength of their defense and rebounding strength.  Two areas where the USA Basketball team appears very vulnerable.

[jemagee]

I'm just impressed that they finally gave in and ignored the nonsense of the 'try outs'.

Nike sponsors USA basketball, the majority of the players on the team are nike players, and no final try out for the final 12.

The US's egotism towards basketball has to stop, they still don't know how to build an international basketball team, they still don't realize that the rules differences matter, and they still don't realize that the rest of the world is catching up/has caught up, rather quickly.  It's not fait accompli that this team will win the gold (or even medal) any more, you can't just slap a team together and hope it works...you can't slap a team together based on names instead of needed skill sets.

I'd lay even money they won't win the gold...and someone one will suffer an inury that causes them to miss half the season and their NBA team will flip out.

THe United States, out of most countries, cares so little about international competition like this it's really ridiculous.

[JoMal]

This is the most expensive and advertized summer league in existence, and personally, I could care less about summer leagues.

[Skandery]

The players I recommended are better, hands down!

Rick, can you please quote me where I stated the opposite.  Thanks.

. . . and also

Jamal Crawford is better than Ronnie Brewer.
Zach Randolph is better than Samuel Dalembert.
Mike Bibby is better than Beno Udrih.
Baron Davis is better than Tony Parker.
Jermaine O'Neal is better than Al Horford.

So which one of those teams with the lesser player makes those trades without any reservations, or makes the trade period.  Better player is not synonymous with Better team player and as jemagee eloquently pointed out.  YOU NEED A TEAM!!!

[westkoast]

Skandery I'm with you on being high on Prince.  He's EVERYTHING this squad needs in one player.  He's fast for his size, he's the 2nd best defender when it comes to changing ends and making a play (first being AK IMO), he plays hard every second, he rebounds, and while he's not a great shooter he can stretch the floor when you need it in crunch time.  If you ask me the team needs a few more Prince types then super star types.

Paul Pierce is great in green but what he brings to the floor is already something that guys like Kobe and Lebron bring.  Not a knock on him but there is no need to put him on the roster at this point.

Hopefully the strength of our players will make p for our lack of shooters.  I know the international teams play zone but there is no reason Deron and CP can't get to the middle and create.

[Skandery]

Thank you Westkoast, I agree 100% with everything you said.


. . . it still kind of wigs me out when your the voice of reason, though.

[Reality]

While I agree with the Team Kidd better in past and perhaps future then AI or Pierce (not sure with Kidds injuries, but moving on), as to Kidds team ballin abilities, what happened with Dallas this year?

[Skandery]

not sure with Kidds injuries

What injury?  You mean the micro-fracture from like 4 years ago.  What aren't you people sure about exactly. 

I mean have I completely lost my mind or are you and Rick honestly telling me that a guy getting you ~13 points, ~ 9 assists, ~8 rebounds, and ~ 2 steals across the last 4 years is dead, finished, gone, sayonara, chop sueyed, and should be buried.  On what basis is all this coming from, because it sure isn't facts!   

what happened with Dallas this year

They met up with a better (higher seeded) team.

[westkoast]

Don't worry Skandery I won't make a habit of it.

When are basketball fans going to learn its not just about throwing superstars at the games.  That 92 team had chemistry and the right complimenting players.  It was about more then just talent that year.