Author Topic: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .  (Read 6615 times)

Offline Ted

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2008, 08:14:20 PM »
Rick, you are nuts.
"You take him Perk!" ~Kevin Garnett

"I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards in and tighten up a little bit on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." ~Bill Clinton

Offline Laker Fan

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 09:49:06 PM »

I am in a better place now.   


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Ahhh, the advantage of having a wonderfully extensive wine collection, was it a fine dry red or a sweet chilled white that took you to that better place? I for one am jealous.
Dan

Offline Skandery

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2008, 12:32:25 AM »
"When someone keeps on winning, they're not lucky ... they're cheating"

-- Malcom X.
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Offline westkoast

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2008, 01:08:44 AM »
Plenty of two story buildings in downtown Sacramento, there, Ted. I could have jumped to my dearth long ago, if that were my destiny.

As it is, turns out my destiny is to pester Laker fans into infinity and beyond, so my unobstructed view of the nearby cattle ranches from my nosebleed seat here in the Whee, Cheetem, and Howe law building will continue into the near future.

Couple of thoughts about Tim Donaghy's latest comments -

1. It is not like this is earth shattering news. Just like the revelations made by Scott McClellan in his book on the Bush adminstration, nothing new in it; just that a guy who would really, really know the truth is now saying what everyone already knows.

2. Unless the League is going to replay the fourth quarter of that game, it will matter very little up here in SacTown.

3. His timing is rather interesting, isn't it? Now the Laker/Celtic build and historic rivalry needs to take a back seat for a few days while the League wipes the egg from its face once again.

4. Not to throw more fuel on this continuously burning fire, but that game was played six years ago and yet it is still being referenced today as proof regarding the League officials efforts in bias and affecting the outcome of games. And since where there is smoke, there is fire, we can assume something happened in that game, for whatever reason, that was not fair to one of the teams.

5. At the very least, this game certainly is being used by Donaghy in his  efforts for a lighter sentence by saying other referees must have been dishonest, just look at what happened back in 2002.   

Can't really argue your take on it at all.  I think it's pretty fair for you to feel this way.  I also feel the same way you do about the intentions of him saying all this.  Not saying it did not happen.  It's hard to say it was impossible for it to happen.  At the same time he had nothing to do with the game and it's been a controversial  game for along time.  It's easy to get the media to fill in the blanks then claim you did not quite name anything specific.

The NBA really asked for this and did exactly what you said, got egg smashed on their face.   They wanted to be paid the one million dollars they spent on their "investigation" back by Donaghy.  I think that really pushed his buttons and made him go for the jugular.    Whats a million bucks to the NBA?  They kind of asked for this whether its true or not.  Donaghy has nothing to lose and the NBA has a lot.  I wouldn't put it past him to be petty especially in light of what the NBA tried to do.  His credibility is shot.  Hes a liar and a cheater.  Had this never came up the NBA would have been in the clear.   Yet the NBA couldn't just let him dig his own grave.  People always say the NBA is very smart but I don't know if that is really the case anymore.

One thing I think is lame to bring up is the Kobe foul on Bibby.  The reason I say that is it makes it sound like just one call when that wasn't the original issue Kings fans had.  The other is the fact that in Game 5 Chris Webber got away with an illegal screen on Derek Fisher that allowed Bibby a wide open jumper to win the game.  Not saying they cancel each other out but how would one be a fix and one not be a fix if the entire purpose was to extend the series like Tim Donaghy said?

My question(s) to everyone is:

Now is any game where the FT gap huge going to come into question?  How much time is going to be spent trying to cook up a ref fix story the next time the Lakers shoot 39 free throws at home?  Or if KG makes a bucket at the very end even though he could have just help thus killing the spread if people will wonder if it was a "fix" in place?   Is the media going to spend more time questioning refs then they do giving teams like the Spurs, Jazz, and Pistons credit for what they do?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 01:11:44 AM by westkoast »
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 10:18:22 AM »
[Ahhh, the advantage of having a wonderfully extensive wine collection, was it a fine dry red or a sweet chilled white that took you to that better place? I for one am jealous.

Well.....I sort of have to drink on my own for now, so it actually was a 12 year old Cael Ila from Islay.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 11:28:24 AM »

That very well may be true IF you believe Donaghy.  I don't, and it's obvious he'd throw that game out as an example simply because it was undeniably a controversially offiated game. 

What does he have to gain by lying? I just wish he never used that game six to push his own agenda.

Msc, I see no reason the feds would ask that his sentence be reduced for this information; why would they consider that since he has already pled guilty? But to embarrass the League? THAT, I can see him doing. Lying in a federal court is why Barry Bonds faces federal prison. Since the idea is for Donaghy to ask for a REDUCTION in his sentence, lying to the feds would probably at this point do the opposite. 

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If it was mandated by the league to "force" a game 7, I think the refs would have spread the "fake" calls out over the course of the game to make it less obvious.  Most of the calls were in the 4th quarter.  As I said before, I honestly believe the refs were influenced by the crowd.  I believe this happens a lot.  If it's commonly agreed that players can be motivated or conversly intimidated by the crowd, why wouldn't refs be as well.  It's human nature, no one can completely ignore and be immune to it.
 

If that were the case, you are arguing that every NBA game could be tainted because they all are played at someone's home court. What is much more likely is that the refs, by the fourth quarter of that game, decided to make the game more competitive and thereby watchable. I can see them doing that, even if the League did not directly sanction it. But I highly doubt they felt they would actually change the outcome; it just worked out that way. In my opinion, they probably were shocked themselves when they saw the disparity of fouls and the calls/non-calls they made that last quarter that benefitted only the Lakers when reviewing the game later.

So, yes, I agree with you that they got caught up in the momentum, but it had nothing to do with the energy of the Laker crowd. If they are not used to that sort of thing, they would have been fired by the League their first year on the job. 

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Actually I can imagine them blowing a huge lead because they have on several occassions.  Maybe not in a WCF game 6, but it happens to every team.  As I recall they blew a lead close to that size to New York earlier this year.  Basketball is a game of momentum and stuff happens.
 

Neither the Kings nor the Lakers, in 2002, would have phyically been able to give up a 26 point lead without help; I think you would agree that the 2002 Laker team is NOT similar to your 2008 version, even after the Gasol trade. That team in 2002 was much better.

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What I can't imagine is the Lakers losing Game 7 at home after blowing a 26 point lead in game 6.  I disagree that the Kings meltdown was due to their perception of being the redheaded step child of the NBA.  If they were the better team they would have come home and come out with a vengeance.
   

There was tremendous pressure on the Kings that year that the Lakers did not have. So when things fell apart in the fourth quarter of game six, the residual could very easily have affected the Kings squad for game seven as it would never would have to the Lakers, because the Lakers always would have the easier playoff path in subsequent years. That is just how it is.

It was common knowledge THAT King's team, in 2002, would probably be the only one to get that far. The Lakers are never going to have that problem, as you well know. Sure, a down year or two, maybe a bit longer, but the Kings team cannot attract free agents the same, other teams won't "magically" forget all business sense with Petrie, and the fan base will never match the size of the LA market so the League might, on occasion, look the other way if things fall into place for the Lakers to play far into the playoffs each year.

Money is money.

Having good luck is how the Spurs got Tim Duncan. Once. Since then, San Antonio has been gambling successfully on drafting foreign players and coaching great defense. This is how a well managed team in a small market competes.

But the LA Lakers? The Shaq trade? The Kobe trade? The Gasol trade? Even the second Shaq trade? Free agents agreeing to well below their market value to play for the Lakers? Calls "magically" going the Lakers way time and time again just when things look grim for your team? After a while, you have to see what the perception to outsiders to the LA experience might think. That type of "luck" could not happen of its own accord.   

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I don't recall having a problem with the officiating in that series.  I did have a problem with Shaq getting 7 rebounds in a game against a 6'8" center.  My point was that if the league wanted to maximize revenue by fixing games, why not force a game 7 at least?


You probably can blame that sixth game of the 2002 playoff series for that subsequent series, at least on how it was called. The fallout of that game sixth lasted what seemed (what SEEMS) years. It was certainly in the best interest of the League for the Lakers to disappear for a while by then, and frankly, if any of that game sixth was still stinking up the League office, you many have gotten what amounted to just a regularly called playoff series with no ref prejudices affecting games. Noticably fairly called, I would think.

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I, for one, hope you stick around.  This place wouldn't be the same without you poking your head in to stir up the pot. 

Chances are I will stick around for now.

The problem will be if and when the Kings get back into the playoffs. There will always be some doubt about how the team will fare, especially if we play the Lakers again. It will affect the players as well, even if we were to get Lebron James, Garnett, and Dwight Howard to play here. The perception for this town after that 2002 playoff game still lingers and nothing will change that, so I am not looking forward to it happening again. Jackson can insult us all he wants, but with the perception that his Lakers have the League's backing when things might tighten up in any series his team may play with the Kings, we know deep down he is covered and I think he knows it too.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 11:32:47 AM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."