Author Topic: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .  (Read 6635 times)

Offline Ted

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Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« on: June 11, 2008, 09:35:40 AM »
. . . in the last day or so?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3436401

I mean, are there any bridges or really tall buildings in Sacto? I'm just a bit worried about our Jazz DH.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 10:36:17 AM »
Plenty of two story buildings in downtown Sacramento, there, Ted. I could have jumped to my dearth long ago, if that were my destiny.

As it is, turns out my destiny is to pester Laker fans into infinity and beyond, so my unobstructed view of the nearby cattle ranches from my nosebleed seat here in the Whee, Cheetem, and Howe law building will continue into the near future.

Couple of thoughts about Tim Donaghy's latest comments -

1. It is not like this is earth shattering news. Just like the revelations made by Scott McClellan in his book on the Bush adminstration, nothing new in it; just that a guy who would really, really know the truth is now saying what everyone already knows.

2. Unless the League is going to replay the fourth quarter of that game, it will matter very little up here in SacTown.

3. His timing is rather interesting, isn't it? Now the Laker/Celtic build and historic rivalry needs to take a back seat for a few days while the League wipes the egg from its face once again.

4. Not to throw more fuel on this continuously burning fire, but that game was played six years ago and yet it is still being referenced today as proof regarding the League officials efforts in bias and affecting the outcome of games. And since where there is smoke, there is fire, we can assume something happened in that game, for whatever reason, that was not fair to one of the teams.

5. At the very least, this game certainly is being used by Donaghy in his  efforts for a lighter sentence by saying other referees must have been dishonest, just look at what happened back in 2002.   
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Lurker

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 10:52:54 AM »
I could use an example from this year's Suns/Spurs series that IMO supports Donaghy's allegations.  In game 3 (I think - maybe game 2) Shaq was called for 4 or 5 FT line violations.  This is something that is called maybe a half dozen times during the whole season and he is whistled for it repeatedly in a playoff game.  I remember Sean Elliott commenting on the FoxSW coverage that most likely the Spurs sent "evidence" to the league that Shaq was getting away with crossing the FT line before his shots hit the rim.  And then lo & behold he is called for it repeatedly...but only in that one game.  Maybe Shaq was the focus of the refs...
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Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 12:24:44 PM »
I could use an example from this year's Suns/Spurs series that IMO supports Donaghy's allegations.  In game 3 (I think - maybe game 2) Shaq was called for 4 or 5 FT line violations.  This is something that is called maybe a half dozen times during the whole season and he is whistled for it repeatedly in a playoff game.  I remember Sean Elliott commenting on the FoxSW coverage that most likely the Spurs sent "evidence" to the league that Shaq was getting away with crossing the FT line before his shots hit the rim.  And then lo & behold he is called for it repeatedly...but only in that one game.  Maybe Shaq was the focus of the refs...

What we would all very much like to know is that this all is just not true, but Stern is doing too much of a tap dance, trying to put out Donaghy's little fires by blaming him just a tad too verbally for many to buy into his argument. 
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2008, 12:32:58 PM »
Plus how would the Spurs sending in tape and thus alerting the refs to Shaqs lane violations in any way shape or form compare to 25+ purposely thrown calls in the Kings-Lakers 2002 fixaroo?  The two are galaxies apart.  Besides if Snac was gaining an unfair advantage with his lane violations then why not call it?  Fair is fair.

Are you trying to sound *open-minded* Cousin Lurker by referncing a Spurs game? 

Offline msc

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2008, 12:54:21 PM »
This makes total sense.  Now I'm just trying to figure out how the refs were able to make the Kings shoot 3/25 from 3 pt land and miss half their free throws in Game 7.  Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Offline Ted

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2008, 01:00:37 PM »
Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Actually, I believe it is likely in this case. But I also believe the best team doesn't always prevail in any series, whether it's 5 games or 7. I also believe it's possible refs tried to extend that series to 7, ending a rare, but possible chance for a lesser team to prevail in a series.
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Offline msc

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 01:12:45 PM »
Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Actually, I believe it is likely in this case. But I also believe the best team doesn't always prevail in any series, whether it's 5 games or 7. I also believe it's possible refs tried to extend that series to 7, ending a rare, but possible chance for a lesser team to prevail in a series.

I don't believe a game has ever been fixed in the NBA.  I believe there have been bad calls.  I believe the home crowd can effect the refs, just as it clearly has an effect on the players. 

If anyone here truly believes the NBA fixes games I have one question for you: why do you continue to watch and support a league that is bogus? 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 01:46:44 PM by msc »

Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 01:46:10 PM »
This makes total sense.  Now I'm just trying to figure out how the refs were able to make the Kings shoot 3/25 from 3 pt land and miss half their free throws in Game 7.  Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Since the 'better' team essentially defeated the other team in six games, but was disallowed to take the series, you can probably make a case that the players on said team had a huge let-down in game seven because they knew the League was conspiring against them at the time. So while the Kings certainly did not play well in that last game, it does in no way equate to the Lakers being the better team. No one felt they were after that series was played out.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline msc

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 01:48:42 PM »
This makes total sense.  Now I'm just trying to figure out how the refs were able to make the Kings shoot 3/25 from 3 pt land and miss half their free throws in Game 7.  Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Since the 'better' team essentially defeated the other team in six games, but was disallowed to take the series, you can probably make a case that the players on said team had a huge let-down in game seven because they knew the League was conspiring against them at the time. So while the Kings certainly did not play well in that last game, it does in no way equate to the Lakers being the better team. No one felt they were after that series was played out.

Malarky.

See my question above.  If you truly believe that, and you obviously do, why would you continue to support the league? 


Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 01:48:53 PM »
Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Actually, I believe it is likely in this case. But I also believe the best team doesn't always prevail in any series, whether it's 5 games or 7. I also believe it's possible refs tried to extend that series to 7, ending a rare, but possible chance for a lesser team to prevail in a series.

I don't believe a game has ever been fixed in the NBA.  I believe there have been bad calls.  I believe the home crowd can effect the refs, just as it clearly has an effect on the players. 

If anyone here truly believes the NBA fixes games I have one question for you: why do you continue to watch and support a league that is bogus? 

If I were a Laker fan, that would be my attitude opinion as well.

Since it has yet to happen to the Lakers - IN A MEANINGFUL GAME SIX OR SEVEN - frankly, msc, you have no idea what you are talking about.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Skandery

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 02:01:02 PM »
Quote
Since it has yet to happen to the Lakers - IN A MEANINGFUL GAME SIX OR SEVEN - frankly, msc, you have no idea what you are talking about.


You gotta be careful here because in the pre-David Stern NBA of the 1960s, the Lakers must of felt something was awkward when they kept seeing Boston in the Finals and kept losing to them over AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.  Even the series that went to 7 (Russell's last championship) when most thought the Lakers were by far the better team.

Still, anyone with eyes and ears knew something was going on in that Game 6 of the LA-Sacto series that smelled like rotten fish and it wasn't Kobe's fro.  One play I distinctly remember was when Kobe swiped at the ball as Bibby was dribbling and gave a good elbow to the face, Bibby naturally lost the ball.  Ref makes no call standing 2 feet away. 

The damning thing about this whole story is that all Donaghy is doing is confirming what most around the country had deep suspicion about.       
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Offline msc

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 02:04:51 PM »
Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Actually, I believe it is likely in this case. But I also believe the best team doesn't always prevail in any series, whether it's 5 games or 7. I also believe it's possible refs tried to extend that series to 7, ending a rare, but possible chance for a lesser team to prevail in a series.

I don't believe a game has ever been fixed in the NBA.  I believe there have been bad calls.  I believe the home crowd can effect the refs, just as it clearly has an effect on the players. 

If anyone here truly believes the NBA fixes games I have one question for you: why do you continue to watch and support a league that is bogus? 

If I were a Laker fan, that would be my attitude opinion as well.

Since it has yet to happen to the Lakers - IN A MEANINGFUL GAME SIX OR SEVEN - frankly, msc, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Well, I was at that game, so maybe I have some idea what I'm talking about.  I've watched the NBA for approximately 25 years and I've never felt a game was fixed.  Basketball is a game of momentum.  We see teams get up by 20+ points and we know the other team is going to make a run, we just saw this the other night.  The team that is ahead rests on their lead a bit, they quite playing as aggressively and tries to maintain the lead rather than playing their normal game.  When you're on the road the home team can feed off of the energy in the building.  The home players start playing more aggressively, the rambunctious crowd fuels the home team and negatively impacts the road team.  The refs too are affected by this ... I've seen it.  I saw it in Game 2 in the 08 Finals and I saw it in Game 6 of the 2002 WCF.  There's no doubt the Lakers got some calls, the energy in the building was unlike anything I've ever experienced.  The refs made some bad calls, no doubt about it, but the Lakers also played with more energy and aggression in the last 18 minutes or so.  The Kings tensed up and got nervous, the momentum completely shifted.  It happens.  I believe all that, I was there I lived it, I breathed it, I watched it.  Never for one minute then or now do I believe the refs were mandated by the league to call phony fouls so the Lakers would win.  I don't believe this criminal Donaghy for one second.  Of course he's going to reference that game.  That's one of the most infamous games in the history of the NBA.  A real shocker a guy who's trying to lighten his sentence and bring the house down with him would reference that game.  Predictable really.  

So I have no idea what I'm talking about?  I could say the same thing for you that because you're so jaded and jilted over your team laying an egg you can't see past your rage for all thing Lakers and that's skewing your perception.  It goes both ways, doesn't it?  I would have a hard time accepting the fact that my team blew a 26 point lead on the road in Game 6 of a WCF and then came home and laid an egg in Game 7.  If they were the better team, and they felt they got jilted by the refs, then they would have come home twice as angry and with twice the motivation and they would have kicked the Lakers butts.  That's what they would have done if they were the better team.  

Again, if you truly believe the league cheats, why watch?  I wouldn't.  


Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 02:05:48 PM »
This makes total sense.  Now I'm just trying to figure out how the refs were able to make the Kings shoot 3/25 from 3 pt land and miss half their free throws in Game 7.  Is it possible the better team prevailed over the course of a 7 game series?  No, it has to be the refs, it's always the refs.  It's never the players, or the energy from the home court fans, it's the refs and the coaches. 

Since the 'better' team essentially defeated the other team in six games, but was disallowed to take the series, you can probably make a case that the players on said team had a huge let-down in game seven because they knew the League was conspiring against them at the time. So while the Kings certainly did not play well in that last game, it does in no way equate to the Lakers being the better team. No one felt they were after that series was played out.

Malarky.

See my question above.  If you truly believe that, and you obviously do, why would you continue to support the league? 



Support it how? By paying off the refs as apparently Los Angeles influences have? By not watching? I have already started to ignore many of the games, but so what? I already do not attend the games and watch only Kings' games and not all of them.

Come up with a more logical answer, msc, other then not supporting the League. What does that matter when there are plenty of others, such as yourself, who continue to support the League because your team is never on the receiving end of the bad calls in these meaningful games. Phil Jackson, once again, made a complete ass out of himself referencing a call - ONE CALL - that he felt was against the Lakers in game five of the 2002 series. ONE CALL. And replays do not support his contention that the ball went off a Kings player anyway.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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Re: Has anyone checked on JoMal . . .
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 02:24:44 PM »

Well, I was at that game, so maybe I have some idea what I'm talking about.  I've watched the NBA for approximately 25 years and I've never felt a game was fixed.  Basketball is a game of momentum.  We see teams get up by 20+ points and we know the other team is going to make a run, we just saw this the other night.  The team that is ahead rests on their lead a bit, they quite playing as aggressively and tries to maintain the lead rather than playing their normal game.  When you're on the road the home team can feed off of the energy in the building.  The home players start playing more aggressively, the rambunctious crowd fuels the home team and negatively impacts the road team.  The refs too are affected by this ... I've seen it.  I saw it in Game 2 in the 08 Finals and I saw it in Game 6 of the 2002 WCF.  There's no doubt the Lakers got some calls, the energy in the building was unlike anything I've ever experienced.  The refs made some bad calls, no doubt about it, but the Lakers also played with more energy and aggression in the last 18 minutes or so.  The Kings tensed up and got nervous, the momentum completely shifted.  It happens.  I believe all that, I was there I lived it, I breathed it, I watched it.  Never for one minute then or now do I believe the refs were mandated by the league to call phony fouls so the Lakers would win.  I don't believe this criminal Donaghy for one second.  Of course he's going to reference that game.  That's one of the most infamous games in the history of the NBA.  A real shocker a guy who's trying to lighten his sentence and bring the house down with him would reference that game.  Predictable really.  

So I have no idea what I'm talking about?  I could say the same thing for you that because you're so jaded and jilted over your team laying an egg you can't see past your rage for all thing Lakers and that's skewing your perception.  It goes both ways, doesn't it?  I would have a hard time accepting the fact that my team blew a 26 point lead on the road in Game 6 of a WCF and then came home and laid an egg in Game 7.  If they were the better team, and they felt they got jilted by the refs, then they would have come home twice as angry and with twice the motivation and they would have kicked the Lakers butts.  That's what they would have done if they were the better team.  

Again, if you truly believe the league cheats, why watch?  I wouldn't.  

Again, why on earth would you have an honest opinion about that game, whether you were watching it live or not? I am sure the big screen at Staples showed all the bad calls on replays continuously, like they did on TV, right?

No, msc, your credibility on this one can not be trusted and that is just how it is. Besides, would not bad calls rev up the crowd even more? I would not know, having never experienced bad calls that benefitted the Kings in a playoff series with the ramifications of 2002, but as you stated, you have plenty of experience on how a home (Laker) crowd would react, having the refs lead your team back into contention in a game they had clearly lost.

And no, I can not agree that any team, once it was made abundantly clear they were not wanted in the Championship Series by the League, that they would necessarily respond in a positive fashion in the next game. It would take a while for the stench of the bad game to wear off.

In that, as you state, Donaghy even made an accusation regarding this game, does that not tell you the game is STILL causing controversy, even six years later? Hardly matters if he is truthful or not, and his credibility is highly questionable, but that he CAN reference this game and claim it was influenced - why are YOU not outraged that this is being brought up and damaging the League and quit watching as well? It is out on the table once again that there is a problem with the honesty of the referees that affects all of us, not just Kings' fans.

And, again, since 2002 I have hardly had the same ardor for the NBA as I did prior to that, so yes, I guess I AM not all that involved with it any more. But as long as you have your Lakers getting to play in championship after championship series and you can live with the very clear fact that some of them will forevermore be tainted, what does it matter if a few of us who are more honest with ourselves and are paying less attention to it leave it alone to do other things.

It is YOUR support of the NBA that is continuing the problem, genius, NOT mine.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:15:53 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."