Robbed

[WayOutWest]

I just rewatched the replay.  There is NO WAY you can objectively look at that and say Fisher went straight up and down.  He jumped into Barry.  And it definitely disrupted the play.

I don't think you can defend that "no call", just like you can't defend that 5 step "no call" travel on TD, just like you can't defend the Fisher "no call" shot clock reset on the play before.  Spurs got two obvious "no call" gifts and the Lakers got one.

I cannot believe Kobe tried to take that shot with 18 left on the shot clock two possesions before.   I wanted to strangle him and Gasol for missing those two FT's.

[westkoast]

Derek the ref explanation was not from me.  That was from a college ref so not quite sure how you thought that was my explanation.

I don't think the call needs to be defended really.  Barry made the wrong decision and you can't expect the refs to bail him out with 1 second left.

[westkoast]

No one said he jumped straight up.  The fact he did not is why the college ref said he violated Barry's space.

I think I'd agree they didn't want to make a call because it would have been them bailing out The Spurs for running a botched play and Barry for making the wrong decision.

[Reality]

I don't think you can defend that "no call", just like you can't defend that 5 step "no call" travel on TD, just like you can't defend the Fisher "no call" shot clock reset on the play before.  Spurs got two obvious "no call" gifts and the Lakers got one. 

Wanna see five steps?  Watch Kobster recieve the handoff from Sasha with about 22 seconds left.  Watch Kobsters feet for the next 5 seconds.  Do-see-do.  It's a howl.  Picks both pivot feet up like three times.  This was pointed out to me by an objective Lakers watcher.

[WayOutWest]

I don't think you can defend that "no call", just like you can't defend that 5 step "no call" travel on TD, just like you can't defend the Fisher "no call" shot clock reset on the play before.  Spurs got two obvious "no call" gifts and the Lakers got one. 

Wanna see five steps?  Watch Kobster recieve the handoff from Sasha with about 22 seconds left.  Watch Kobsters feet for the next 5 seconds.  Do-see-do.  It's a howl.  Picks both pivot feet up like three times.  This was pointed out to me by an objective Lakers watcher.

Lakers still win if they make all those calls.  NEXT!

[Derek Bodner]

I don't think the call needs to be defended really.  Barry made the wrong decision and you can't expect the refs to bail him out with 1 second left.

It's not the ref's job to decide what the right decision is.  Fisher landing on top of Barry effected Barry's ability to get into position to put up a shot.  That's the bottom line, and that's all that matters.  We need to stick to what the definition of a foul is and not "what could Barry have done to guarantee a foul would be called".  We, as fans, can sit back afterwords and say "had Barry done this, he would have gotten foul shots", but it's the refs job to call fouls based on the definition in the rule book.

[Reality]

^^ thank you.

[WayOutWest]

It's not the ref's job to decide what the right decision is.  Fisher landing on top of Barry effected Barry's ability to get into position to put up a shot.  That's the bottom line, and that's all that matters.  We need to stick to what the definition of a foul is and not "what could Barry have done to guarantee a foul would be called".  We, as fans, can sit back afterwords and say "had Barry done this, he would have gotten foul shots", but it's the refs job to call fouls based on the definition in the rule book.

Agreed.

My only complaint is there were several other calls that would have changed the outcome of the game yet they are being ignored and/or denied.  The shot clock reset and the obvious travel by TD to name a couple.  If we go back and correct all the bad calls the Lakers still win the game, probably by double digits.

[Reality]

^^ Pushy Turiaf and Gasols numerous other fouls on Duncan not called.  Duncan does not shoot airballs from 5 feet.  81-77 should any objective Lakers be lurking.

And stop whining about the shot clock.  Gasol pinning Horrys arm down so Bob cannot get the easy rebound is the only reason it bounced off Horrys knee.

Spurs by double digits if called fairly.

Still does not impact as dabods wrote what did happen.  Barry fouled, period.

[SPURSX3]

The Spurs played so horribly they did not deserve to win this game.  I don't think this was being robbed, we did this to ourselves.  Brent was on fire and yet Pop went away fro him, Manu had a THIRD horrible game in this series, nobody really hit their three's, even with Crawford there we still should have lost that game.  

[WayOutWest]

The Spurs played so horribly they did not deserve to win this game.  I don't think this was being robbed, we did this to ourselves.  Brent was on fire and yet Pop went away fro him, Manu had a THIRD horrible game in this series, nobody really hit their three's, even with Crawford there we still should have lost that game.  

One thing that really killed the Spurs were second chance points, the Lakers front line finally pulled their weight in the series by getting on the glass.

[SPURSX3]

The most I could hope for at this point is that we AT LEAST go down fighting and get 1 game in LA...

Sad to think the Spurs fought so hard to get this far to just fizzle out like this.  Not an excuse.  but our guys are not playing as good as they should be, and you can't say it was from being tired or hurt or anything, they just did not come to win it.  That's what ticks me off the most as a fan of this team.

[msc]

Fish bumped him, no doubt.  But you're not going to get that call at the end of the game, 30 feet from the basket when part of the collision is due to Barry putting the ball on the ground, taking a dribble and trying to go around Fish for the shot.  It was a foul, but you're not going to see that call made.  Popovich said, "I think it was a proper no-call from what I just saw (on replay)," he said, "What else do you want me to say? If I was the official, I wouldn't have called that foul".   Me neither.  Especially in light of the fact that the officials did everything they could to keep the game from slipping away from the Spurs.  It was ridiculous for a while there at the end of the 1st and in to the 2nd qtr.  Kobe taking 29 shots and not getting to the free throw once?  WTF?  Even our most noted Krishna on the board, Reality, knows something ain't right when Kobe shoots 1 free throw over a 2 game span.  I think the Joey Crawford thing backfired on the Lakers.  He knew everyone was watching him b/c of his history with the Spurs and he was reluctant to make a tough call, or any call against the Spurs. 

I apologize as it's unlike me to rant about the officials, but I had to vent a little.  It pisses me off because I hate to see the discussion of one call take away from a great game by the Lakers.  They went in to the Spurs building and out played them for 48 minutes.  The Spurs never laid down, and kept fighting the whole time and the Lakers played solid enough on both ends of the court to never give up the lead.  I was truly impressed with their performance and anyone who understands basketball and watched the game knows that the Lakers won and deserved to win, period. 

Now they have to take care of business in game 5.  You can't give this Spurs team any hope and you don't want to be heading back to San Antone 3-2 if you're the Lakers.  The Spurs are too battle tested and mature.  If any team is going to come back from being down 3-1, it's this one. 

[westkoast]

I don't think the call needs to be defended really.  Barry made the wrong decision and you can't expect the refs to bail him out with 1 second left.

It's not the ref's job to decide what the right decision is.  Fisher landing on top of Barry effected Barry's ability to get into position to put up a shot.  That's the bottom line, and that's all that matters.  We need to stick to what the definition of a foul is and not "what could Barry have done to guarantee a foul would be called".  We, as fans, can sit back afterwords and say "had Barry done this, he would have gotten foul shots", but it's the refs job to call fouls based on the definition in the rule book.

I agree.  It is not their job to decide what the right decision is.  That tid bit I added as far as him making the wrong decision has nothing to do with the refs.  So if it came off that way I apologize.  I should have worded it better as you are correct it is not their job. 

To comment on our ability to go back and look at it that also plays a part both ways.  That call in real time is tough to make because Barry does try to go around Fisher by putting the ball on the floor.  Fisher is coming down towards Barry but Barry also moves into Fisher.  Real time I think that is very hard to make.  It is the same reason I did not get to upset at Odom's block on Parker.  It was awfully close and pretty impossible to call in real time.  Was it a missed call? Yea but only after you were able to watch it in slow mo a few times.  Derek Fisher's shot that hit the rim actually should have been a reviewable play based on league rules.  They are only allowed to watch a replay if it has to do with clock issues.  That was clearly a clock issue.  Joey Crawford told PJ and Rambis that he would not review the play though.

As for sticking to the definition of a foul.  DB I know you are a huge basketball fan and have seen plenty of basketball games in the last 15 years.  When do they make calls like that in the final seconds of a game?  Pretty much never.  The last time I remember anyone making a call in the final seconds of a game on  a shot is when Dick Bevetta gave the And1 to the 3 point shot for the Knicks in what was it...1998 or 1997?  If you really believe what's a foul in the first minute is a foul in the last minute I don't know what to say.  We all know better then that.  The league would like you to believe that, the refs would like you to believe that but it is just not the case.  They do not bail out players in that situation.  The reason I used the term bail out and questioned his decision making is that he left doubt in the referees mind on what to call because he tried to go around Derek Fisher.  Derek Fisher, based on the definition of rules, is allowed to jump up in the air and come down.  Like the college ref said since Barry turned and moved into Fisher it puts a lot of pressure on the referee because they both were in a violation.  At that point do you automatically give it to the shooter so a game can be decided at the FT line?  I say you don't.  There are times when I've seen Kobe Bryant get fouled on a last second shot in a regular season game but they don't call it.  He can pout all he wants he missed the shot but they are not going to stick him on the line so he can tie up a game.  That would be 'bailing him out' in my book.

Although I will have to say that msc's last post summed up a lot of things very nicely and once again he provided some well thought out commentary about the Lakers.  I would hope that most people on this board would look back at 2nd chance points, poor Spurs 3 point shooting, and GNob's poor game first before saying that the game was won/lost because of a missed call when Fisher's shot hit the rim and on a no call on Brenty Barry 30 feet out from the rim with 2 seconds to go.  The Spurs never took the lead the entire game so I still find it hard to understand why people want to say the game was lost because of the last play.  The Lakers deserve props whether you think the league magically cheated for them.

[Reality]

Fish bumped him, no doubt.  But you're not going to get that call at the end of the game, 30 feet from the basket when part of the collision is due to Barry putting the ball on the ground, taking a dribble and trying to go around Fish for the shot.  It was a foul, but you're not going to see that call made. 

Kobster at Staples would not have gotten that call.
A foul is a foul is a foul.  All this conditional stuff is just justification attempts.

As to the alleged numerous calls in favor of the Spurs in the 1st and 2nd qtr, i find its only by getting into specifics that any conclusion can be reached.  So if you are able to point out specific plays, i am happy to discuss.  I have DVD'd the game, plus my being owner of Reality Inc allows me to have some days whereupon i can review.  I objectively saw just as many bogus calls favoring the Lakers, specifically Duncan getting hacked by both Gasol and Turiaf.  Should have put the Lakers in serious frontline foul trouble, instead several bogus no calls, most notably the 81-77 foul by Turiaf.

Kobster was called fairly for a change.  He did have several very bogus fouls rung up on Bowen, they just were non shooting fouls.  So the "no calls for Kobe" is a misnomer.

Spurs unforced turnovers really hurt them, including GNob with several more gifts for the Lakers.  Poppycocks overplaying Manu and taking Barry out were sad but predicatable "failure to adjust" moves by Pop.  Also the O kept passing up shots and instead swinging the ball to Parker, who to me was obviously gassed.  Again, Pops failure to adjust.  Jacque Vaughn was ready for short spells to keep Parker fresh.  Go ahead and laugh, see last years playoffs JVaughn.  Or run Barry at the point, like we saw him do for about 8 minutes last night.  How did that work out?