All defensive teams named

[westkoast]

This list is nuts -- how does Bowen get listed as a guard?  I'm not aware that he played that position once this year? 

What position do these people play?

Kobe
Allen
T-Mac
Nash
Iverson
Wade

Just off the top of my head I listed 20 games (1/4 of the season) that Bowen defended guards.

So eligibility is now based on what positions you guard rather than what position you play on the court?  Kobe has guarded PG's and SF's -- I've seen Bowen guard some PG's too -- should we give him PG eligibility too?  How about Kenyon Martin -- he guarded Kobe in the Denver game -- how come he doesn't get SG status? 

I thought it was based on what position you actually played -- not who you guarded.  I'm sure there are a lot of fantasy owners who would LOVE to have their big men guard a tiny guy for a night so they could get eligibility for them at other positions.

In the past, people have lost eligibility when they don't play any games at that position.  Has Bowen ever played a game as a shooting guard this year?

And you want to replace Bowen on the team with Battier?  What position does Battier play?  So all your arguments against Bowen would also apply to Battier?  Kobe guards Bowen and Battier so how did he make it as a guard; shouldn't he be a small forward?

Talk yourself in circles but coaches voted for the players they thought fulfilled the roles.  Bowen defends as many guards as SFs.  So does Battier.  Give your Spurs-hate a rest for awhile.

Kobe also plays SF towards the end of games 

I actually think it makes more sense to place them in the spots they guard rather then the spots they score from.

You guys may return to your debate.

[Lurker]

Actually, I think we have some of the worst defensive PG's in the league currently -- who are you going to choose?  Billups?  Paul?  Parker?  Nash? 

Well, at least those other PGs played more than 61 games and started more than 31.  West couldn't get minutes on the SONICS!  Only a PG starved team like the Cavs have given him minutes.

I like Duhon and Hinrich but I've only seen Chicago play once this year and they both looked bad.  I have seen West play a couple of times and he has looked far better than most.  I actually would have chosen Fisher but I didn't want to cause you an aneurism -- you may be a Spurs fan but I don't want to be responsible for your death.

As far as choosing Fisher...that would have been great.    Two players on the all defensive team from a team that EVEN ITS OWN FANS THINK LACK DEFENSIVE METTLE.  

[WayOutWest]

I actually think it makes more sense to place them in the spots they guard rather then the spots they score from.

I was going to jump on how stupid that sounds but it does make sense.  TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.  Based on offense Dirk is a SG so that doesn't make sense. 

I guess LeBron is a small power forwad shooting point guard?

[Lurker]

I actually think it makes more sense to place them in the spots they guard rather then the spots they score from.

I was going to jump on how stupid that sounds but it does make sense.  TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.  Based on offense Dirk is a SG so that doesn't make sense. 

I guess LeBron is a small power forwad shooting point guard?

I think they should change the voting (same for all-star) to PG, Swing (SG/SF), Swing, Big man (PF/C), Big man

My votes would have gone:
Devin Harris (Rondo would be a close second)
Kobe
Bowen/Battier tossup (of course Bowen wins the tiebreaker)
KG
TD

[Lurker]

TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end. 

It is easier to fish when you don't use 4 year old bait.   

[Randy]

I actually think it makes more sense to place them in the spots they guard rather then the spots they score from.

I was going to jump on how stupid that sounds but it does make sense.  TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.  Based on offense Dirk is a SG so that doesn't make sense. 

I guess LeBron is a small power forwad shooting point guard?

I think they should change the voting (same for all-star) to PG, Swing (SG/SF), Swing, Big man (PF/C), Big man

My votes would have gone:
Devin Harris (Rondo would be a close second)
Kobe
Bowen/Battier tossup (of course Bowen wins the tiebreaker)
KG
TD

I could buy your voting criteria -- I certainly HATE the format they use now (based on when they played 2-2-1 format -- the NBA has changed a LOT since those days).  How can you vote for Harris -- how many games did he miss because of injury?  30?  Rondo is right there with Deron Williams, IMO -- Rondo just looks better because he can cheat (like Kobe did when Shaq was back behind him) with KG behind him.

I would actually agree with rest of the scenario because the center crop currently stinks.

Two players on the all defensive team from a team that EVEN ITS OWN FANS THINK LACK DEFENSIVE METTLE

We don't lack defensive mettle in the backcourt -- just the frontcourt -- let's let your best defensive big man go down (TD) and see how well the Spurs defend!  The Lakers would eat the Spurs alive and play their NBDL team in the 2nd half just to keep the score within 20 points by the end of the game!

[WayOutWest]

TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end. 

It is easier to fish when you don't use 4 year old bait.   

Would "shield" work better?  Honestly, TD is the BEST defensive center in the league right now but he doesn't play the opposing teams center very often.

[Skandery]

TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.

Dead on, man!  The Spurs hide him on those weakling, puny Power Forwards like Boozer, Jefferson, Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, Amare, Garnett to protect him from those awesome, devasting Centers like Jarron Collins, Mark Blount, Jeff Foster, Rasho Nesterovic, and Kenrick Perkins. 

 

[WayOutWest]

TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.

Dead on, man!  The Spurs hide him on those weakling, puny Power Forwards like Boozer, Jefferson, Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, Amare, Garnett to protect him from those awesome, devasting Centers like Jarron Collins, Mark Blount, Jeff Foster, Rasho Nesterovic, and Kenrick Perkins. 

 

TD would rather play any of those mostly finess all stars then have his teeth rattled by a bruising stiff who roam the 5 spot.  Exactly how do those stiffs score their points?  They are not taking 15 foot jumpers, they are bull dozing their way into the paint for a rebound and put back.

Paahleeze!  Don't go stupid on me!

[Ted]

TD scores from the center position but has always been listed as a PF because the Spurs hide TD from the other centers in the league on the defensive end.

Dead on, man!  The Spurs hide him on those weakling, puny Power Forwards like Boozer, Jefferson, Jermaine O'Neal, Bosh, Amare, Garnett to protect him from those awesome, devasting Centers like Jarron Collins, Mark Blount, Jeff Foster, Rasho Nesterovic, and Kenrick Perkins. 

 

How often does TD really guard those PFs? IMO, it's almost always Flabio and "Insert third stiff here" who guard the PFs.

[ziggy]

I would actually agree with rest of the scenario because the center crop currently stinks.

I have to disagree.  I watched a lot of Joel Pryzbilla this year and he is a very good defensive center.  Very good shot blocker, lead league for centers in charges taken, plays good d with his feet, a very very good defensive rebounder, tough as nails, and never afraid to give a hard foul, and a very good help defender.  I happen to think he is in one of the top 2-3 in the league.

Call me a homer if you want, but since you were prepared to put Bynum in the top two if he hadn't got hurt, I figure I can step up to the plate for the Vanilla Gorilla.

[Randy]

Ziggy,

Okay, I'm NOT flaming -- just asking questions.  My exposure to the Blazers hasn't been huge so I've only seen Pryzbilla play a couple of times this year (only one when it wasn't against the Lakers) and Joel just didn't do a lot.  Only one of the games that I saw did he have what I would consider better than just a decent game.  I don't think I saw him black a shot in any of those games and only one of those games (1 in 3 - one of the games against the Lakers, he didn't play in) did he have over 10 rebounds.  He doesn't really even seem to get much playing time.  How do you rate him on one of the defensive teams when he can't seem to get more than half of the playing time for his own team.  Most top defensive players make it impossible for a team to not play him starter minutes (i.e. Bowen, Battier, Camby, etc.).

I still don't think this changes that the current group of centers in the NBA sucks.  This has been a position in which dominant centers have ruled the league (Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, DRob, Ewing, etc.).  How many real centers do we have playing in the league today that could be considered dominant?  The NBA is a realm where Dampier is considered one of the best centers in the league -- that has to tell us that the center crop is horrible.  We have a bunch of PF's playing center because we have so few true centers who can play in today's NBA.

[Derek Bodner]

and only one of those games (1 in 3 - one of the games against the Lakers, he didn't play in) did he have over 10 rebounds

He had a 12 and 16 rebound game against the lakers in the same week.

[Joe Vancil]

Let me throw in some love for Delonte West as a defender.  He plays some smart, aggressive, active defense.  And someone mentioned Rondo - and I think that's a good mention.  I think Paul isn't bad as a defender, and Deron Williams - despite Skander's tirades about him leaving Fisher last game - is pretty good.  Jarret Jack is solid, as is Jacque Vaughn, Andre Miller, Chris Duhon and Kirk Hinrich.  And I've always been high on Brevin Knight.  I think defense at point guard is IMPROVING in the league, although it isn't as gaudy as it was when it was Payton and Kidd every year.

Also some love out there for Przybilla.  That guy has been a fantastic defender for years.  And let's face it - Dikembe Mutombo is *STILL* solid.

[Joe Vancil]

Oh - and by the way - it's an embarrassment that there's not room for Battier on the First Team.