Bob Horry, Hall of Famer

[Lurker]

Where do you find playoff minutes for a player?

Try the NBA.com player page.  It even will break it down year by year.


And Reality didn't mislead in any way.  He stated what his stats were covering...YOU didn't like his stats so YOU brought out some more that HAD to be right since YOU were the one posting them.  However YOUR stats are just as misleading as his.  Horry's reputation has nothing to do with his regular season performance but is based on his clutch 3s in the playoffs.  So in that case I would argue that Reality's stats are more on point than yours, Randy.


BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

[Randy]

When in doubt, fabricate?
Bobs minutes played in Championship years.
618 LAL '00
382 LAL '01

619 SAS '05
361 SAS '07
1000 in LA
980 in San Antone

Houston he did play a bit more, not all that much.
778 Hou '94
841 Hou '95

Please show me in this quote where you mentioned that these minutes are based on playoffs?

Okay, here are better stats because they take in the entirety of Horry's playoff experience under the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs -- not just a couple of years you want to pick and choose because they fit your stats better.

Houston - averaged 35 minutes and started 65 games
Lakers - averaged  29 minutes and started 55 games
Spurs - averaged 19 minutes and started 5 games

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

[Ted]

Here is the one fact that stands out most about his career: He played with Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, and Tim Duncan in their primes. That's 3 of the top 10 big men OF ALL TIME. Horry gets way too much credit for his championships. His skill set is closer to Toni Kukoc than to a real hall of famer.

While I agree Horry is not a HOFer, your assesment of his contributions and what has defined his carreer are so off that I cannot believe you are a fan of the NBA.

Okay WoW, put the gun away and stop Googling my address and re-read what I said literally.

Better yet, here is a visual representation of the above statement:

Toni Kukoc                                Robert Horry                                           Hall of Famer

See how I have Robert Horry marginally closer to Toni Kukoc than the Hall of Famer? Of course Robert Horry is better than Toni Kukoc. What a ridiculous thing to say.                       

[Skandery]

Horry's mpg in San Antonio in the regular season get skewed because they've always tried to save him for the championship run as he has gotten more and more ancient. 

Still the guy's propensity to be a part of and significantly contribute (whether you want to believe it or not) to winning basketball-championships means his candidacy for Hall of Fame is debatable and could go either way.  I mean the guy is older than dirt and still had very key moments in the closing seconds of games THIS YEAR, steal on Steve Nash being the big one.  Which that should lead you to ask yourself what the heck is Robert Horry doing at the end of close playoff games if he is about to die of old age and can barely run up and down the court. 

If we're going to let 12 pt, 7 reb K.C. Jones, why is Robert Horry completely out of the dicussion. 

You want to know what gets lost in the conversation.  Everybody talks about Horry's pedestrian numbers never realizing how much he sacrificed his own numbers throughout his career to be a better team player and doing everything his coach asked him to do at an impressive level.  Rudy--Robert stand around Hakeem and be a 3-point shooter even though that wasn't your game in Alabama and you're playing Forward--okay coach.  Phil--Robert guard 2 through 5, crash the offensive boards and spread the floor--okay coach.  Pop--body up bigger guys, spread the floor, and rebound--okay coach.  The guy is a human engine cog--if you have good coach with a good system in place with good inside-outside scoring, sign Robert Horry and you'll have a shot at the championship or will win the championship and that's been the stone cold truth for over a decade and a half. 

Excuse me if I pause and consider . . .     

[Laker Fan]

Horry's mpg in San Antonio in the regular season get skewed because they've always tried to save him for the championship run as he has gotten more and more ancient. 

Still the guy's propensity to be a part of and significantly contribute (whether you want to believe it or not) to winning basketball-championships means his candidacy for Hall of Fame is debatable and could go either way.  I mean the guy is older than dirt and still had very key moments in the closing seconds of games THIS YEAR, steal on Steve Nash being the big one.  Which that should lead you to ask yourself what the heck is Robert Horry doing at the end of close playoff games if he is about to die of old age and can barely run up and down the court. 

If we're going to let 12 pt, 7 reb K.C. Jones, why is Robert Horry completely out of the dicussion. 

You want to know what gets lost in the conversation.  Everybody talks about Horry's pedestrian numbers never realizing how much he sacrificed his own numbers throughout his career to be a better team player and doing everything his coach asked him to do at an impressive level.  Rudy--Robert stand around Hakeem and be a 3-point shooter even though that wasn't your game in Alabama and you're playing Forward--okay coach.  Phil--Robert guard 2 through 5, crash the offensive boards and spread the floor--okay coach.  Pop--body up bigger guys, spread the floor, and rebound--okay coach.  The guy is a human engine cog--if you have good coach with a good system in place with good inside-outside scoring, sign Robert Horry and you'll have a shot at the championship or will win the championship and that's been the stone cold truth for over a decade and a half. 

Excuse me if I pause and consider . . .     

As well put as anything I have read on the pro side, indeed, THE most well worded argument for induction as I have ever read, one I cannot really dispute, especially since I am on the fence on this subject anyway, and leaning toward induction

[Randy]

They should have never put KC Jones in the HOF -- the HOF is already very watered down.  It doesn't mean that Robery Horry hasn't been a great player but I still can't see putting him in the HOF.  If we continue to put players in the HOF based on criteria like this, the HOF will continue to be a watered down version rather than only the best of the best.  None of this takes away anything from Horry.  Actually, on a side note, you forgot that when Horry came to the Lakers during the first season, that the Lakers asked him to bulk up during the off-season in order to be able to play the PF position and guard the big PF's in the league.  Horry did an amazing job for playing against guys that were bigger and taller than he was.

Horry is an important cog in a system but every championship team has always had key role players to win their championship.  That doesn't mean that you put all of them in the HOF.  Pretty soon, a HOF nomination will be about as meaningful as getting nominated to one of the All NBA Teams every year -- a statistic to add beside your name rather than the most elite the NBA ever put on the floor.

I realize when you look at somebody like KC Jones, you say "why not" -- but that's a slope that will get pretty slippery if you keep going down it -- then you have to start putting in role players who have had a good long career -- like Rasheed Wallace, Derek Fisher, the list goes on and on and on.

I'd rather see the HOF (at least the NBA portion) kept for the most elite of the NBA.  It's like the original dream team -- they were the best of the best -- then we decided to start putting anybody on it (and look what happened). 

I'd rather see the HOF kept for the top of the NBA -- that's my vote!

[Lurker]

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

There is NO NBA HALL OF FAME!

I guess that part ELUDED you...or more typically it didn't fit your preconceived thoughts so you ignored it.

[Randy]

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

There is NO NBA HALL OF FAME!

I guess that part ELUDED you...or more typically it didn't fit your preconceived thoughts so you ignored it.

Gee, duh, I thought we already had this discussion -- there is a Basketball Hall of Fame but PART of that actually refers to NBA players (which was ALL that we were discussing, wasn't it? -- I must have missed the part where we were talking about college coaches, broadcasters or mascots).  Boy, Spurs fans REALLY get cranky when they team gets blown away for the first two games of a series.  Try breathing into a paper sack -- it might help.

[Lurker]

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

There is NO NBA HALL OF FAME!

I guess that part ELUDED you...or more typically it didn't fit your preconceived thoughts so you ignored it.

Gee, duh, I thought we already had this discussion -- there is a Basketball Hall of Fame but PART of that actually refers to NBA players (which was ALL that we were discussing, wasn't it? -- I must have missed the part where we were talking about college coaches, broadcasters or mascots).  Boy, Spurs fans REALLY get cranky when they team gets blown away for the first two games of a series.  Try breathing into a paper sack -- it might help.

No your question...I'll quote it again in bold...

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?

What part of these are the same Hall don't you understand?  And no there is not a SEPARATE part that is NBA players.  The basketball hall of fame is for all basketball related contributers.

Pat Riley isn't in the Hall for his playing days.  Neither will Phil Jackson be.  Bill Walton is in the Hall more for his college work than his NBA work.  But I would guess you to say they all belong in the Hall.  See you don't want to talk about the hall as it is set up because that doen not fit YOUR notion of what it shiould be.  This is the general fault with the majority of your posts.  You believe everything should be seen through your cracked and dirty glasses.

[westkoast]

Maybe Robert Horry doesn't deserve to go in the HOF......

Would you say he is the greatest role player of all time though?

[Randy]

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

There is NO NBA HALL OF FAME!

I guess that part ELUDED you...or more typically it didn't fit your preconceived thoughts so you ignored it.

Gee, duh, I thought we already had this discussion -- there is a Basketball Hall of Fame but PART of that actually refers to NBA players (which was ALL that we were discussing, wasn't it? -- I must have missed the part where we were talking about college coaches, broadcasters or mascots).  Boy, Spurs fans REALLY get cranky when they team gets blown away for the first two games of a series.  Try breathing into a paper sack -- it might help.

No your question...I'll quote it again in bold...

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?

What part of these are the same Hall don't you understand?  And no there is not a SEPARATE part that is NBA players.  The basketball hall of fame is for all basketball related contributers.

Pat Riley isn't in the Hall for his playing days.  Neither will Phil Jackson be.  Bill Walton is in the Hall more for his college work than his NBA work.  But I would guess you to say they all belong in the Hall.  See you don't want to talk about the hall as it is set up because that doen not fit YOUR notion of what it shiould be.  This is the general fault with the majority of your posts.  You believe everything should be seen through your cracked and dirty glasses.

lol -- no, I'm just telling you where I am coming from -- our discussion was about NBA players -- not about anything else -- type in NBA Hall of Fame -- it will take you to a list of players that are now in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  I don't get stuck on semantics which is what it seems you want to debate -- I have made it clear that what I am talking about and you keep bringing up that there is no NBA Hall of Fame -- I already know that -- however, the Basketball Hall of Fame has MANY players who have retired -- if you go to NBA.com you can find a list of NBA players who are in the Hall of Fame.  What's sad is you know exactly what I'm talking about but you want to make an issue out of this.  And then you want to try to take me for task for having a "haughty know-it-all" attitude.   

[Randy]

Maybe Robert Horry doesn't deserve to go in the HOF......

Would you say he is the greatest role player of all time though?

The greatest role player?  I don't know that I would go that far -- there have been a ton of great ones in the past but I'd definately say he ranks up there among the greatest role players ever.  Horry is the type of player that you HAVE to have on your team in order to win a championship -- you can have superstars but if you don't have roleplayers like Horry, it just won't get it done.

[westkoast]

Maybe Robert Horry doesn't deserve to go in the HOF......

Would you say he is the greatest role player of all time though?

The greatest role player?  I don't know that I would go that far -- there have been a ton of great ones in the past but I'd definately say he ranks up there among the greatest role players ever.  Horry is the type of player that you HAVE to have on your team in order to win a championship -- you can have superstars but if you don't have roleplayers like Horry, it just won't get it done.

I can think of a lot of great role players but I can't think of ones that hold as many rings as he does and actually earned all the ones he has.

[Lurker]

BTW I don't believe that Horry belongs in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  The hall is based on ALL basketball not just the NBA.  That is why there are non-NBA players in the hall.

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?  I didn't put basketball Hall of Fame because I don't want to talk about college hoops or coaches or broadcasters -- we were talking about NBA players -- I guess that part elluded you, huh?

There is NO NBA HALL OF FAME!

I guess that part ELUDED you...or more typically it didn't fit your preconceived thoughts so you ignored it.

Gee, duh, I thought we already had this discussion -- there is a Basketball Hall of Fame but PART of that actually refers to NBA players (which was ALL that we were discussing, wasn't it? -- I must have missed the part where we were talking about college coaches, broadcasters or mascots).  Boy, Spurs fans REALLY get cranky when they team gets blown away for the first two games of a series.  Try breathing into a paper sack -- it might help.

No your question...I'll quote it again in bold...

Hmm, were we talking about all of basketball or were we talking about the NBA Hall of Fame?

What part of these are the same Hall don't you understand?  And no there is not a SEPARATE part that is NBA players.  The basketball hall of fame is for all basketball related contributers.

Pat Riley isn't in the Hall for his playing days.  Neither will Phil Jackson be.  Bill Walton is in the Hall more for his college work than his NBA work.  But I would guess you to say they all belong in the Hall.  See you don't want to talk about the hall as it is set up because that doen not fit YOUR notion of what it shiould be.  This is the general fault with the majority of your posts.  You believe everything should be seen through your cracked and dirty glasses.

lol -- no, I'm just telling you where I am coming from -- our discussion was about NBA players -- not about anything else -- type in NBA Hall of Fame -- it will take you to a list of players that are now in the Basketball Hall of Fame.  I don't get stuck on semantics which is what it seems you want to debate -- I have made it clear that what I am talking about and you keep bringing up that there is no NBA Hall of Fame -- I already know that -- however, the Basketball Hall of Fame has MANY players who have retired -- if you go to NBA.com you can find a list of NBA players who are in the Hall of Fame.  What's sad is you know exactly what I'm talking about but you want to make an issue out of this.  And then you want to try to take me for task for having a "haughty know-it-all" attitude.   

I know the Hall of Fame has many NBA players.  It also has many people in it who NEVER PLAYED A GAME IN THE NBA...which is what you want to ignore.  The criteria for the Hall is not "what was their NBA career?" but "what have they contributed to the sport of basketball?".  And yes your haughty, know-it-all smugness comes through LOUD & CLEAR in this thread.  You were the one that derided the Hall of Fame for letting in non-NBA types.  I just pointed out that it is NOT an NBA Hall of Fame and you spin and twist like a kite in a tornado trying to back up what you said.

And I am glad that I came up with a new catch phrase that you like.  It shows that my posts at least have new original thought involved instead of using the same old retread lines post after post after post... (jeez now I am sounding like JazzMal).

[Skandery]

I can think of a lot of great role players but I can't think of ones that hold as many rings as he does and actually earned all the ones he has.

'koast brings up a great issue.  Does being the paragon of role player, the text book definition of a role player, the most successful role player (not being a Celtic in the 60s) in the history basketball, make Horry worthy of induction as a testament to all the players that do all the little things (and some big things) to achieve the biggest accomplishment in an NBA season.

Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think the induction of Robert Horry will open the floodgates to the Bowen's, Kerr's, Harper's, and Microwave's of the world because no role player will ever, EVER have that type of success, with than many different teams, with that many memorable game-altering/game-winning performances.  

If the Hall of Fame is supposed to hearken back and capture individuals that defined era's or contributed greatly to the game of basketball, wouldn't there be a piece missing if Horry is forgotten?

All of it is probably moot because the unselfish nature required to fulfill a role rather than absorb the spotlight usually goes hand in hand with not caring about accolades or ceremonies.  I'm sure Horry's astounding and consistent success is his own greatest reward.