What happenned to the Suns???

[SPURSX3]

 I am bit confused.  I picked the Spurs to win in 6, and then they go and romp all over the Suns in Phoenix!!! 

Are the Spurs playing like CHAMPIONS!  Above and beyond a level I thought they were capable of?


Or, did something happen to the Suns that made them become THAT bad in the playoffs?  could it have been the game 1 stunner???e


Man, I don't want to get too carried away after this win.  The Spurs IMO have the toughest route to the finals (Phoenix, N.O., and then L.A.)  I am worried about all of these match ups, but these Suns were suppossed to be a contender....now, I don't know what they are.  But if this is any indication of what other teams have in store for them I would have to say that S.A. is making a HUGE statement.   

Either that, or this Phoenix team REALLY went downhill REALLY fast. 

Did the Shaq trade have that big of an impact on this team?

I'm stunned, I was sure Phoenix would be a big hurdle for us....

What happened?

 

[rickortreat]

The Suns have not jelled as a team yet, or at least not as good as the Spurs.  I thought the Suns acquired all the parts when they got Shaq, but he is either too old, or the rest of the Suns and he haven't put it together yet.

The thing is, they were supposed to become a more defensive team with Shaq's arrival, but he cannot do that by himself.  He can anchor the middle (and foul out of the game if opposing players are allowed to drive the lane)  His job is to be the second line of defense, so that when say Tony Parker drives by Nash, the next player he should see should be Shaq just outside of the painted circle waiting to take a charge.

That requires a commitment from the entire team, and I don't think they've done it yet.  They are not a defensively oriented team, and their mind-set is "let's go down and score" not, "let's get a stop here".

Defense wins championships.  Teams that don't play defense don't win.  Teams like the Spurs DO play defense and that's why they win.  Detroit used to play defense like that and when they did they won.  They don't play that level of defense anymore- maybe they're too old or too lazy.

[Lurker]

It is very simple:

Pop exposed D'Antoni as being clueless on how to make adjustments.  I thought the glimpses of his coaching last night were revealing..."rah, rah let's go"; "just two stops and were back in it", "keep running". In contrast Pop actually makes adjustments.  

Parker exposed Nash/Shaq as horrible defenders.  I loved the one from the wing after Shaq switched out and Parker undressed him with the hesitation move for a layup + 1.  And Manu has shown Bell to be an average defender at best.  They need to stop mentioning Bell & Bowen in the same sentence...unless they are saying that Bell is dreaming of being Bowen.

The Spurs exposed Shaq as being washed up.  And the Suns have him for 2 more years at $40 million.  I wonder how many draft picks you have to sell to save up that kind of money.  

Seriously this Suns team is done.  The Spurs have shown how to surgically cut them apart.  Shaq ties up $20 mil a year for 2 more.  Nash is fading...you could just see in his eyes the realization that his window slammed shut.  Grant Hill is injured again.  He did play solid during the season but how many games can you really count on from him.  Stoudemire looks impressive with his dunks and has a nice 10-12 footer but when Nash doesn't gift wrap them for him he struggles.  And I doubt he could even tell you the first letter of defense.  Barbosa and Diaw are nice young role players but not starters in the NBA.

[Reality]

DAnt continued to have Grant Hill on Tony Parker.  That's whack.

Unreal shooting by Parker and the Spurs.  Great ball movement.  Loved Tims long jump shots continued.

[westkoast]

Lurker already touched on it but I'll throw in my own take...

D'Antoni is not a good coach.  I've said it for the past few years and I'll continue to say it at the next team he goes and coaches for.  He is more motivational speaker then pro basketball coach.  At least Tony Robbins would have given the Suns enough confidence coming into game 3 on their home floor to really come out swinging.  Instead they came out like the Atlanta Hawks.  It took the Suns coaching staff two whole days to come up with the adjustment "Don't let Manu and Parker get into the middle, sag off them on the pick and roll" then when Parker and Manu started to hit jumpers there was NO IN-GAME ADJUSTMENT.  When a player has 19 at the half shooting 60% you make an adjustment.  Would it have mattered?  Last night probably not with as well as TP was playing.  However at least make an attempt to try to counter.  Make it look like you are trying.   If anything it looked like the coaching staff was giving up so the players followed suit.

Now to the Shaq factor.  Looks like the 'haters' around here were right.  Having a big body to play post defense is awesome if that is the only thing the other squad can do.  Who was giving the Suns game tape from the Spurs losses to the Lakers in 2002?  THIS IS NOT THE SAME TEAM!   I am still confused on this trade.  I honestly feel like Steve Kerr gave it 15 seconds worth of thought before pulling the trigger.  My mom could have told him that Shaq's defense is suspect.  Again...who is in charge of getting game tape for the Suns coaching staff and front office?  Is the guy in charge only allowed to have access to tapes from 2002?  Even though Shaq moved better then....HE STILL SUCKED AT GUARDING THE PICK AND ROLL!!!  And Reality before you pipe in and say 'Shaq did well hater he had 19 and 6' i'll have to remind you that my argument for being against the trade was the fact that Shaq wouldn't be able to surpass what Marion was already bringing to the team.  So while newly found Shaq fans can rejoice at him scoring 19 points...you would have got that from Marion anyways and probably wouldn't have been exposed on the defensive end badly.    The Shaq experiment was a major bust and the 6th seed, first round playoff exit, and how badly they are getting beat proves that beyond a doubt .  I crack up thinking about him being in the box with the owner pointing to his ring as if they were going to win the title.  Talk about counting chickens before they hatch.  I don't think they are even going to win a playoff game.   You know what feels good?  Knowing the Lakers got rid of Shaq and kept Kobe.  I couldn't imagine what the Lakers would look like right now had Shaq been the main focus of our squad with a bunch of players less talented then Steve Nash and Amare Stoudamire.

Also, Tony Parker gets his props but sometimes it still feels as if he gets pushed aside by the media for either Duncan or Manu.  You always hear about Duncan and this year you always heard about Manu taking over.  TP is still the second best player on this squad behind Tim Duncan.  He is better then Manu at everything except shooting 3s.  When it comes to the playoffs in the past 2 seasons he has been a FORCE.  If you look at the Finals and this series he's probably been the best player in the playoffs bar none.

[Laker Fan]

I told you so, I told you so, I told you so!!!!!

Hey WOW, how's that trade look now? Shaq has definately been a difference maker, huh? The difference is that they are WORSE with him, JUST LIKE I SAID.

Hey Minnie Me, Shaq sure put them over the top huh? Over the top of the hill and moving at breakneck speed down the other side, JUST LIKE I SAID.

He has been in foul trouble this whole series (5,4,4), has been humiliated by Parker, and the Suns defense is worse, not better, with him. Kerr brought Shaq in to challenge SA and all he did was prove he is no Jerry West, Marion was THE ONLY ANSWER they had for Parker, and he gave you exactly what Shaq gave you in points and boards with 3 times the defensive ability, JUST LIKE I SAID.

Everyone here is right, D'Antoni sucks as a coach, his wired for sound comments were laughable, MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT YOU MORON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How shweet is it that Shaq came in to save this franchise and they may very well get swept in the 1st round! How shweet is it that all of us on this board that said this was a HORRIBLE move by Phoenix can now gloat! How shweet is it this fat slob is not wearing Laker colors!!!!! The only thing I regret is that it is not LA administering this thumping.

Oh and uhm, congrats SA on your suberb play so far, see ya in the WC Finals!

[SPURSX3]

I have seen posts on different sites by the Laker folk stating the exact same thing LF, "Thank God Shaq is not a Laker now!" 

I was laughing when I heard D'Ant trying to coach his squad, I was like, "That's why they pay him the big bucks.."

I think he is toast after this loss.

[Reality]

What can you do if you're a Suns fan?

[Reality]

[WayOutWest]

I know some of you are hyped about the down fall of the Big Pretender, but these loses are not on Shaq.  The Suns had a legit shot at winning both games in SA, it was the Suns lack of execution that killed them.  The Spurs have gotten away with not playing consistently for 48 minutes, they had mental lapses that allowed the Suns to get ahead or back into a game.  Game 3 was different, the Spurs played Spurs ball for the entire game.  You cannot put this 0-3 hole on Shaq, IMO he has done a terrific job on TD in games 2 and 3, TD did not dominate the way he has in the past vs the Suns.  The problem is the Suns cannot handle TP, he is disrupting the entire game plan of the Suns.  To put this all on Shaq is retarded.

[Reality]

^^ concur.

Any remote logic in putting Grant Hill, an 85% Grant Hill at that on Tony Parker?
Some reason an adjustment of Barbosa on Parker could not have been made by DAnt?
No to both.

[Lurker]

^^ concur.

Any remote logic in putting Grant Hill, an 85% Grant Hill at that on Tony Parker?
Some reason an adjustment of Barbosa on Parker could not have been made by DAnt?
No to both.

After watching the last 2 games the best defenders on Parker for the Suns are (in order): 85% Hill, Diaw, Barbosa, the guy selling popcorn, Nash.  Barbosa started on Parker last night and Tony hit his 1st 5-6 shots.  Hill actually did the best on Parker last night.  Diaw has length like Marion but not the footspeed. 

The only matchup I haven't seen is Bell on Parker.  But then he hasn't stopped Manu so I don't think he would stand a chance to stay in front of Parker. 

According to the Suns' boards they have a kid on the bench named Strawberry who is their quickest defender.  But D'Antoni never gives him any floor time.  Even in the blowout last night D'Antoni basically played 7 guys: Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Amare, Shaq, Diaw and Hill.  Giricek got 9 minutes and Skinner 2.  By contrast Pop gave all 12 guys an appearance.

[Reality]

After watching the last 2 games the best defenders on Parker for the Suns are (in order): 85% Hill, Diaw, Barbosa, the guy selling popcorn, Nash.  Barbosa started on Parker last night and Tony hit his 1st 5-6 shots.  Hill actually did the best on Parker last night.  Diaw has length like Marion but not the footspeed. 
According to the Suns' boards they have a kid on the bench named Strawberry who is their quickest defender.  But D'Antoni never gives him any floor time. 

I didn't start watching until about 20-12 Spurs. Wow, Tony scorched Barbosa too.  Nice.
Is this Strawberry small/quick enough to defend a guard?  You'd think nothing could have hurt by the time the 4th rolled around.

[westkoast]

I know some of you are hyped about the down fall of the Big Pretender, but these loses are not on Shaq.  The Suns had a legit shot at winning both games in SA, it was the Suns lack of execution that killed them.  The Spurs have gotten away with not playing consistently for 48 minutes, they had mental lapses that allowed the Suns to get ahead or back into a game.  Game 3 was different, the Spurs played Spurs ball for the entire game.  You cannot put this 0-3 hole on Shaq, IMO he has done a terrific job on TD in games 2 and 3, TD did not dominate the way he has in the past vs the Suns.  The problem is the Suns cannot handle TP, he is disrupting the entire game plan of the Suns.  To put this all on Shaq is retarded.

I don't think Dan or myself feel this is just Shaq's fault.  When I say "Shaq experiment" I don't mean for it to only include Shaq.  The experiment really has more to do with D'Antoni and Kerr then it does Shaq.  I knew Shaq wasn't going to take them to the promise land and I knew that he's been done since last year.  My comment was meant more as a side note about me being glad they kept Kobe instead of him.

This is how I see the blame for this series and pretty much the second half of the year in this order:

Mike D'Antoni - His style of basketball and coaching methods don't work.  He let his team and the organization down in this series big time.

Steve Kerr - His idea to trade Shaq and really mess with the chemistry/make up of the team was a bone head move.  There is not too much more to say.

Steve Nash - He had a very weak series especially offensively by his standards.  As the leader of the team some responsibility falls at his lap for differing to Shaq too much and not taking over the game like we've seen him do in the past.

Shaq - His inability to really put forth effort on the perimeter is what hurt the Suns quite a bit.  His post defense against Duncan was solid but overall he did not protect the paint.  The Spurs got over 70 points in the paint over the first two  and he had only 6 blocks.


As for them not executing you have to give props to the Spurs defense first and Steve Kerr/Mike D'Antoni second.  The Spurs did an excellent job of deflecting passes, closing out on shooters, and Bowen did a GREAT job on Steve Nash.  The part you can thank Steve Kerr and Mike D'Antoni for is the squad not having a clear identity or no counter punches to what the Spurs were doing.  I think when you say 'they lost because they did not execute' makes it sound like they should have beat the Spurs but beat themselves.  That's kind of a backhand to the Spurs who kept them from executing and getting into a rhythm.

[jn]

Strawberry is DJ Strawberry, the son of Darryl.  He played at Maryland and is fairly quick but I don't think he's quicker than Barbosa and as a rookie it's hard to imagine him having a big impact on D.  It's fair to say it would help if he could get a few minutes in to help rest the starters but he's hardly a cure-all.