ALL TIME NBA DREAM TEAM- <dibs>

[JoMal]

Point guard - Majic Johnson
Shooting guard - Michael Jordan
Center - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Power forward - Tim Duncan
Small forward - Larry Bird

You guys can fight over the remnants left in the Hall of Fame who you "think" could compete with my well-coached team. My assistant coaches would be Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and Red Auerbach. With Pete Carill on call for sentimental reasons.

[WayOutWest]

PG - Stockton (I was thinking I could get Magic but I figured you were talking about the same guy running your team)
SG- Kobe
C - Shaq
PF - McHale (or Dream if it were allowed since he's only 6'10)
SF - Pippen

Coaches - While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own, I will throw the following guys a coaching bone: Tex Winters, Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown.  The Wizard of Westwood would be on call to just wave his hand like a wand at us before every practice and game.  Mr. Wooden has already suggested to me that having Bobby Knight hand out the Gatorade at games would be a good idea.

[JoMal]

PG - Stockton (I was thinking I could get Magic but I figured you were talking about the same guy running your team)
SG- Kobe
C - Shaq
PF - McHale (or Dream if it were allowed since he's only 6'10)
SF - Pippen

Coaches - While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own, I will throw the following guys a coaching bone: Tex Winters, Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown.  The Wizard of Westwood would be on call to just wave his hand like a wand at us before every practice and game.  Mr. Wooden has already suggested to me that having Bobby Knight hand out the Gatorade at games would be a good idea.

While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own

<kerBLOWME; kerBLOWME>

Sorry, must be these allergies.

And speaking of Mr. Wooden, not fair stealing coaching tactics from my main assistant.

[westkoast]

Ill throw one out there that doesn't use the players you have....

PG - Oscar Robertson
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Bill Russell

Coaches Greg Popavich, Don Nelson, and Larry Brown.

[WayOutWest]

PG - Stockton (I was thinking I could get Magic but I figured you were talking about the same guy running your team)
SG- Kobe
C - Shaq
PF - McHale (or Dream if it were allowed since he's only 6'10)
SF - Pippen

Coaches - While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own, I will throw the following guys a coaching bone: Tex Winters, Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown.  The Wizard of Westwood would be on call to just wave his hand like a wand at us before every practice and game.  Mr. Wooden has already suggested to me that having Bobby Knight hand out the Gatorade at games would be a good idea.

While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own

<kerBLOWME; kerBLOWME>

Sorry, must be these allergies.

And speaking of Mr. Wooden, not fair stealing coaching tactics from my main assistant.

Now that I think about it, I would take Kidd over Stockton.  The defense would be UNREAL, your players will be sooooo locked down on defense they would think their name is Doug Christie.

[JoMal]

PG - Stockton (I was thinking I could get Magic but I figured you were talking about the same guy running your team)
SG- Kobe
C - Shaq
PF - McHale (or Dream if it were allowed since he's only 6'10)
SF - Pippen

Coaches - While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own, I will throw the following guys a coaching bone: Tex Winters, Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan and Larry Brown.  The Wizard of Westwood would be on call to just wave his hand like a wand at us before every practice and game.  Mr. Wooden has already suggested to me that having Bobby Knight hand out the Gatorade at games would be a good idea.

While I should be enough to outclass your coaching staff on my own

<kerBLOWME; kerBLOWME>

Sorry, must be these allergies.

And speaking of Mr. Wooden, not fair stealing coaching tactics from my main assistant.

Now that I think about it, I would take Kidd over Stockton.  The defense would be UNREAL, your players will be sooooo locked down on defense they would think their name is Doug Christie.

OOOOh, only if you promise that Swish Fox is your star bench player. Give Doug something to aim for.

And about that lock down D .....hmmm......Jason on Magic, Kidd versus Johnson.         
Wouldn't you be worried that Kidd develops a terrible crink in his neck trying to follow the flight of the ball off Magic's fingers?

Who you trading with to get him anyway?

[JoMal]

Ill throw one out there that doesn't use the players you have....

PG - Oscar Robertson
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Bill Russell

Coaches Greg Popavich, Don Nelson, and Larry Brown.

Okay, this one begs the question.

Who would win the skyhook versus body D contest between Kareem and Russell?

[Joe Vancil]

I don't think there's any question in that, JoMal.  Kareem's sky-hook would be deadly-effective, because Russell wouldn't try to stop Kareem one-on-one.  That was never his game.  Chamberlain put up big numbers against Russell because the idea wasn't to stop Chamberlain, but to stop his team.  So my guess is that Kareem would have had big numbers.

Also, the thing that people often forget about Kareem is that there were so few folks who fared well against him.  Only Cowens really had sustained success against him - according to what I've read.

[westkoast]

Ill throw one out there that doesn't use the players you have....

PG - Oscar Robertson
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Bill Russell

Coaches Greg Popavich, Don Nelson, and Larry Brown.

Okay, this one begs the question.

Who would win the skyhook versus body D contest between Kareem and Russell?

The shot is pretty tough to defend in general with out getting a foul.  Everything about the shot from bringing it up from the ground to where it is released makes it the perfect weapon.  No way that Russell 'stops' it. 

I'd say it would all depend on how far out Kareem could hit the sky hook because pulling Russell out of the paint would be the most important thing to do against any squad with him in the line up.    The reason I put him on my squad was for his shot blocking ability more then anything. 

[Randy]

I'm not sure that Wilt could have stopped the sky hook -- Kareem was so tall, his arms were so long and the ball was released right off of the top of his outstretched fingertips.  I don't think anyone stops that shot -- the only defense is to body him up and put a hand in his face hoping that he can't see the basket and that you have intimidated him. 

I think some on the board remember Kareem's final days in the league when Magic took over the show.  Kareem was at the end of his career and Magic and the rest of the Showtime Lakers helped Kareem extend his career by not needing him on the defensive end of the court.  How many times did we see Kareem not even run the court and just wait at the other end for Magic to reward him with an easy dunk?  However, Kareem was dominant in the league and goes down as one of the best centers to ever play the game. 

If we are talking prime, I would choose him over every other center -- but I'm willing to admit that I'm not real objective in my choice there.  I loved watching this guy play -- he was dominant in college as well as the NBA.  I believe he is one of the reasons why Bynum has really developed and flourished.

[WayOutWest]

I'm not sure that Wilt could have stopped the sky hook -- Kareem was so tall, his arms were so long and the ball was released right off of the top of his outstretched fingertips.  I don't think anyone stops that shot -- the only defense is to body him up and put a hand in his face hoping that he can't see the basket and that you have intimidated him. 

When was the "goal tending" rule implemented?  I've seen Wilt block Kareem's sky hook.  Wilt actually blocked it after the release as it was going over his head.  He looked like a cat jumping up and swating down a bird as it flew over him.  Wilt was talking about how to defend Kareem, he said IF you could take away the sky hook he was defendable, otherwise you were toast.  Wilt said Kareem was the ONLY player he ever faced where he felt he needed help to guard the guy.

[JoMal]

I don't think there's any question in that, JoMal.  Kareem's sky-hook would be deadly-effective, because Russell wouldn't try to stop Kareem one-on-one.  That was never his game.  Chamberlain put up big numbers against Russell because the idea wasn't to stop Chamberlain, but to stop his team.  So my guess is that Kareem would have had big numbers.

Also, the thing that people often forget about Kareem is that there were so few folks who fared well against him.  Only Cowens really had sustained success against him - according to what I've read.

Since both of these outstanding centers tended to have good teams around them, Joe, how much drop off help could they afford to give Russell? If Kareem was the only option, then it would make sense, but if Russell was forced to play him straight up....I see your point.

There is another interesting point you allude to. How did guys like Cowens and Unseld (6'9" and 6"7" respectively) manage to fare so affectively on defense playing much taller guys in the paint?   

[JoMal]

When was the "goal tending" rule implemented?  I've seen Wilt block Kareem's sky hook.  Wilt actually blocked it after the release as it was going over his head.  He looked like a cat jumping up and swating down a bird as it flew over him.  Wilt was talking about how to defend Kareem, he said IF you could take away the sky hook he was defendable, otherwise you were toast.  Wilt said Kareem was the ONLY player he ever faced where he felt he needed help to guard the guy.

Not sure, but you can bet it was because of somebody named Russell, Chamberlain, or Jabbar that the rule was created.

The skyhook by Kareem was once voted as being the most difficult shot in all of basketball to defend. If Chamberlain got to even one of his skyhooks, that to me would be amazing. The only way it was stopped was if Kareem missed it, or you somehow could prevent him from getting it off. Once in a while, I remember back side guards coming under Kareem and stealing the ball before he could lift off, but even that was risky. 

[WayOutWest]

The skyhook by Kareem was once voted as being the most difficult shot in all of basketball to defend. If Chamberlain got to even one of his skyhooks, that to me would be amazing. The only way it was stopped was if Kareem missed it, or you somehow could prevent him from getting it off. Once in a while, I remember back side guards coming under Kareem and stealing the ball before he could lift off, but even that was risky. 

You should try and see footage of Wilt vs Kareem.  The shot I saw was of Kareem shooting a skyhook, he released it, it flew over his own head then as it was going over Wilt's head he jumped up and blocked it.  I've seen Ewing pull back his arm as he was about to block a hook in the same manner as Wilt but the angle showed that it would have been goal tending, the angle of Wilt vs Kareem you couldn't really tell if it was goal tending.

[Skandery]

I thought the only way for anybody to stop Kareem's shot was to block it in his hand.  Especially in his early days, Kareem would jump so high on the sky hook he would be shooting DOWN at the basket.  So if goaltending was in effect, unless you got the ball before he released it, you'd be whistled for goaltending.  Also I've heard anecdotes and actually caught a game on NBA Classic that showed Artis Gilmore played Kareem as effectively as anybody, and he even blocked a Kareem sky hook every once in a blue moon. 

Russell against Kareem would be good since I would imagine Russell would have at least as much success against Kareem as Gilmore did.  Joe is right, though, Kareem would still get huge numbers but Russell would play him tough and change all shots coming through the lane. 

As for all-time team; a lot of players are missing with this 'dibs' policy, apparently, but I'll throw one out there for fun:

PG: Walt "Clyde" Frazier
SG: Jerry West
SF: LeBron James
PF: Nate Thurmond
 C: Hakeem Olajuwon

With Clyde running the show there is going to be team unity and singular synergy amongst the starters.  1-4 are excellent passers and unselfish.  I think my rebounding is monstrous with guys like West at SG and Thurmond at PF.  Olajuwon and Thurmond anchor the paint, while LeBron re-inforces the team's size and strength advantage.  Mr. Logo is in there for the clutch while "Dream" is there for the half-court game.  What do you guys think?  Not bad for not using any of WOW, westkoast, or JoMal's players.