First to 50 in the West

[Lurker]

Those old, slow, past-their-prime, boring Spurs just keep plugging along and now happen to be the first team in the west to reach 50 victories.  They also moved into a virtual tie with the Hornets for the top seed in the west.  They might not reel off 22 in a row.  Or post fancy point spreads.  But they just keep winning.


This makes the 9th season in a row that the Spurs have reached 50 victories.  Just the 4th time for a team to accomplish this feat.  The Lakers did it for 12 straight seasons from 79/80 thru 90/91 (by some coincidence this was the years Magic played).  The Celtics have done it twice - 10 straight for the Russell years (58/59 to 67/68) and 9 straight in the Bird years (79/80 to 87/88).  So does this put Duncan on level with Magic, Russell and Bird?

[Randy]

Well, I don't know that the first to reach 50 is such a big milestone -- most of the Western Conference is right there.  The Spurs still have some tough games left between now and the end of the season -- 2 games with Utah, 1 with Phoenix and 1 with LA (hopefully a HEALTHY Laker squad).

The Lakers are really struggling with injury -- besides having Gasol, Bynum and Ariza, Odom struggled with sickness, Kobe's fingers and slightly sprained his ankle against the Warriors the other night and Fish suffered a bruised knee at the end of the Warriors game.  I'm not trying to make excuses but I am hoping that the Lakers can get healthy for the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Spurs.  It would be a GREAT game to watch.

Personally, I think TD belongs on the list with Magic, Bird and Russell because of HIS play -- not necessarily the play of his team.  He definately had a lot to do with it but there have been some great players who haven't had the supporting cast that TD, Magic, Bird and Russell had.  Hakeem is a great example -- the guy was phenomenal but didn't have the supporting cast around him to get it all done.  Some of this definately has to do with skill but there HAS been a great deal of "luck" in who the teammates these players have had.  Not discounting any of these guys accomplishments -- it's just hard to elevate some of these players above others simply because they had a better team to work with.

[Lurker]

Well, I don't know that the first to reach 50 is such a big milestone -- most of the Western Conference is right there.  The Spurs still have some tough games left between now and the end of the season -- 2 games with Utah, 1 with Phoenix and 1 with LA (hopefully a HEALTHY Laker squad).

Are you saying that the Spurs reached 50 first in the ultra competitive west because they have had an easier schedule?  A week ago after 4 straight losses were you one of them questioning whether the Spurs had enough left in the tank for another run? 

The Lakers are really struggling with injury -- besides having Gasol, Bynum and Ariza, Odom struggled with sickness, Kobe's fingers and slightly sprained his ankle against the Warriors the other night and Fish suffered a bruised knee at the end of the Warriors game.  I'm not trying to make excuses but I am hoping that the Lakers can get healthy for the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Spurs.  It would be a GREAT game to watch.

You may not be trying to make excuses but you did a FANTASTIC job of doing just that.  Keep up the good work.

Not discounting any of these guys accomplishments -- it's just hard to elevate some of these players above others simply because they had a better team to work with.

So what comes first...the good team elevates the player or the great player elevates the team?  In your words (paraphrasing) the Spurs outside of Duncan are all scrubs who are lucky to have Duncan carry them to the promised land.  Except now, of course, when they are all stars that help the Spurs luckily win consistently.  Hopefully you aren't sitting on a pointed fence.


Can Minnie Me have his own Minnie Me?  Maybe it could be Minnie, Minnie Me.

[WayOutWest]

Well, I don't know that the first to reach 50 is such a big milestone -- most of the Western Conference is right there.  The Spurs still have some tough games left between now and the end of the season -- 2 games with Utah, 1 with Phoenix and 1 with LA (hopefully a HEALTHY Laker squad).

Are you saying that the Spurs reached 50 first in the ultra competitive west because they have had an easier schedule?  A week ago after 4 straight losses were you one of them questioning whether the Spurs had enough left in the tank for another run? 

The Lakers are really struggling with injury -- besides having Gasol, Bynum and Ariza, Odom struggled with sickness, Kobe's fingers and slightly sprained his ankle against the Warriors the other night and Fish suffered a bruised knee at the end of the Warriors game.  I'm not trying to make excuses but I am hoping that the Lakers can get healthy for the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Spurs.  It would be a GREAT game to watch.

You may not be trying to make excuses but you did a FANTASTIC job of doing just that.  Keep up the good work.

Not discounting any of these guys accomplishments -- it's just hard to elevate some of these players above others simply because they had a better team to work with.

So what comes first...the good team elevates the player or the great player elevates the team?  In your words (paraphrasing) the Spurs outside of Duncan are all scrubs who are lucky to have Duncan carry them to the promised land.  Except now, of course, when they are all stars that help the Spurs luckily win consistently.  Hopefully you aren't sitting on a pointed fence.


Can Minnie Me have his own Minnie Me?  Maybe it could be Minnie, Minnie Me.

 

Did you two sleep together and then right after Randy stopped calling?

[Lurker]

Well, I don't know that the first to reach 50 is such a big milestone -- most of the Western Conference is right there.  The Spurs still have some tough games left between now and the end of the season -- 2 games with Utah, 1 with Phoenix and 1 with LA (hopefully a HEALTHY Laker squad).

Are you saying that the Spurs reached 50 first in the ultra competitive west because they have had an easier schedule?  A week ago after 4 straight losses were you one of them questioning whether the Spurs had enough left in the tank for another run? 

The Lakers are really struggling with injury -- besides having Gasol, Bynum and Ariza, Odom struggled with sickness, Kobe's fingers and slightly sprained his ankle against the Warriors the other night and Fish suffered a bruised knee at the end of the Warriors game.  I'm not trying to make excuses but I am hoping that the Lakers can get healthy for the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Spurs.  It would be a GREAT game to watch.

You may not be trying to make excuses but you did a FANTASTIC job of doing just that.  Keep up the good work.

Not discounting any of these guys accomplishments -- it's just hard to elevate some of these players above others simply because they had a better team to work with.

So what comes first...the good team elevates the player or the great player elevates the team?  In your words (paraphrasing) the Spurs outside of Duncan are all scrubs who are lucky to have Duncan carry them to the promised land.  Except now, of course, when they are all stars that help the Spurs luckily win consistently.  Hopefully you aren't sitting on a pointed fence.


Can Minnie Me have his own Minnie Me?  Maybe it could be Minnie, Minnie Me.

 

Did you two sleep together and then right after Randy stopped calling?

Jealous?

[WayOutWest]

Well, I don't know that the first to reach 50 is such a big milestone -- most of the Western Conference is right there.  The Spurs still have some tough games left between now and the end of the season -- 2 games with Utah, 1 with Phoenix and 1 with LA (hopefully a HEALTHY Laker squad).

Are you saying that the Spurs reached 50 first in the ultra competitive west because they have had an easier schedule?  A week ago after 4 straight losses were you one of them questioning whether the Spurs had enough left in the tank for another run? 

The Lakers are really struggling with injury -- besides having Gasol, Bynum and Ariza, Odom struggled with sickness, Kobe's fingers and slightly sprained his ankle against the Warriors the other night and Fish suffered a bruised knee at the end of the Warriors game.  I'm not trying to make excuses but I am hoping that the Lakers can get healthy for the 2nd to the last game of the season against the Spurs.  It would be a GREAT game to watch.

You may not be trying to make excuses but you did a FANTASTIC job of doing just that.  Keep up the good work.

Not discounting any of these guys accomplishments -- it's just hard to elevate some of these players above others simply because they had a better team to work with.

So what comes first...the good team elevates the player or the great player elevates the team?  In your words (paraphrasing) the Spurs outside of Duncan are all scrubs who are lucky to have Duncan carry them to the promised land.  Except now, of course, when they are all stars that help the Spurs luckily win consistently.  Hopefully you aren't sitting on a pointed fence.


Can Minnie Me have his own Minnie Me?  Maybe it could be Minnie, Minnie Me.

 

Did you two sleep together and then right after Randy stopped calling?

Jealous?

Nah, Randy started getting all Charles Barkley on me, had to cut him out of my Fav 5.

[JoMal]

Did you two sleep together and then right after Randy stopped calling?

...and did you steal ziggy's 'begal' at your last <shudder> dog show together?

Ted, he needs a candle snuffer to put out his...what was the word you used?

[JoMal]

Those old, slow, past-their-prime, boring Spurs just keep plugging along and now happen to be the first team in the west to reach 50 victories.  They also moved into a virtual tie with the Hornets for the top seed in the west.  They might not reel off 22 in a row.  Or post fancy point spreads.  But they just keep winning.


This makes the 9th season in a row that the Spurs have reached 50 victories.  Just the 4th time for a team to accomplish this feat.  The Lakers did it for 12 straight seasons from 79/80 thru 90/91 (by some coincidence this was the years Magic played).  The Celtics have done it twice - 10 straight for the Russell years (58/59 to 67/68) and 9 straight in the Bird years (79/80 to 87/88).  So does this put Duncan on level with Magic, Russell and Bird?

Actually, Lurker, that is a great accomplishment. The Spurs seem like a classy organization who deserves their success, and they have the appearance of what professionalism in sports should be modelled after.

And again, thanks for the point guard. He is really good and I think much of that comes from his four years in San Antonio.

[Randy]

It is a great accomplishment -- however, as I pointed out before, I hate to just use 50 wins per season for any length of time as the only criteria for judging a top player (past or present) in this league.  TD is going to go down as one of the best players to ever play in this league -- he has been incredibly consistent on both ends of the court and without him there is no way that the Spurs would have ever continued this streak.  But there are other players who have been just as good, Hakeem comes to mind, who just didn't have the rest of the team to make that happen. 

[Lurker]

Those old, slow, past-their-prime, boring Spurs just keep plugging along and now happen to be the first team in the west to reach 50 victories.  They also moved into a virtual tie with the Hornets for the top seed in the west.  They might not reel off 22 in a row.  Or post fancy point spreads.  But they just keep winning.


This makes the 9th season in a row that the Spurs have reached 50 victories.  Just the 4th time for a team to accomplish this feat.  The Lakers did it for 12 straight seasons from 79/80 thru 90/91 (by some coincidence this was the years Magic played).  The Celtics have done it twice - 10 straight for the Russell years (58/59 to 67/68) and 9 straight in the Bird years (79/80 to 87/88).  So does this put Duncan on level with Magic, Russell and Bird?

Actually, Lurker, that is a great accomplishment. The Spurs seem like a classy organization who deserves their success, and they have the appearance of what professionalism in sports should be modelled after.

And again, thanks for the point guard. He is really good and I think much of that comes from his four years in San Antonio.

Thanks JoMal.  And Beno's "downfall" with the Spurs started inthe finals with Detroit.  Larry Brown exposed Beno's weakness by pressuring the young (2nd yr?) PG at every opportunity.  It rattled him and he never seemed to fully regain Pop's confidence.  But he always showed solid promise as a ball handler with a decent enough shot to keep defenses honest.  Hence the parade of PG vets through SA the past 3-4 seasons.

[JoMal]

Those old, slow, past-their-prime, boring Spurs just keep plugging along and now happen to be the first team in the west to reach 50 victories.  They also moved into a virtual tie with the Hornets for the top seed in the west.  They might not reel off 22 in a row.  Or post fancy point spreads.  But they just keep winning.


This makes the 9th season in a row that the Spurs have reached 50 victories.  Just the 4th time for a team to accomplish this feat.  The Lakers did it for 12 straight seasons from 79/80 thru 90/91 (by some coincidence this was the years Magic played).  The Celtics have done it twice - 10 straight for the Russell years (58/59 to 67/68) and 9 straight in the Bird years (79/80 to 87/88).  So does this put Duncan on level with Magic, Russell and Bird?

Actually, Lurker, that is a great accomplishment. The Spurs seem like a classy organization who deserves their success, and they have the appearance of what professionalism in sports should be modelled after.

And again, thanks for the point guard. He is really good and I think much of that comes from his four years in San Antonio.

Thanks JoMal.  And Beno's "downfall" with the Spurs started inthe finals with Detroit.  Larry Brown exposed Beno's weakness by pressuring the young (2nd yr?) PG at every opportunity.  It rattled him and he never seemed to fully regain Pop's confidence.  But he always showed solid promise as a ball handler with a decent enough shot to keep defenses honest.  Hence the parade of PG vets through SA the past 3-4 seasons.

Beno seems to have turned the tables on the pressure aspect, which is what makes him affective with the Kings. He puts lots of pressure on drives into the lane, then either scoring or kicking the ball out to open shooters.

If you can't learn from what others do against you in the League, you never will amount to anything, and I suspect the best players in the NBA all had a learning curve of some kind where they took what was being done to them and used it to their own benefit.

But Pop should know that. Udruh really is better then most of the guys he goes up against.

[westkoast]

So what your saying is the Spurs age is being reflected in the win column?  I agree!

Around here I am pretty sure everyone expected the Spurs to still be a top team by now.  How many years in a row do the Spurs need to do this before people just start assuming and getting use to it?  Lucky for me <W.O.W> my supreme basketball knowledge </W.O.W> told me the championship still runs through SA and they are still scary for anyone the entire season.  It takes a special level of supreme basketball knowledge to state the obvious.

And really is there such thing as an easier schedule?  This has been brought up by a lot of people now of all teams and I think it's almost pointless to say.  Yes, there are times when squads  play easier teams for stretches or they are at home for a long period of time.  Obviously.  Are the games scheduled  on the fly so one team would get an advantage? No.  Contrary to what one poster believes Sternfish doesn't decide "Hmm, the Spurs took a small skid right now let's make sure they play at home more then the Hornets do"   Doesn't everyone pretty much play the same teams the same amount of times?  Doesn't everyone play the same amount of home games? (Yes Reality the Lakers have extra home games because of the Clippers, don't get too excited lil scrappy)   Who is to say that having more home games at the begging of the season is any less important then having a stretch towards the end of the year?  One could argue that having more home games at the start of the year could benefit certain teams who need to build momentum heading towards the end of the year to make the playoffs right?

[Lurker]

It is a great accomplishment -- however, as I pointed out before, I hate to just use 50 wins per season for any length of time as the only criteria for judging a top player (past or present) in this league.  TD is going to go down as one of the best players to ever play in this league -- he has been incredibly consistent on both ends of the court and without him there is no way that the Spurs would have ever continued this streak.  But there are other players who have been just as good, Hakeem comes to mind, who just didn't have the rest of the team to make that happen. 

You are right, Randy.  There was nothing special about Magic, Bird or Russell.  There have been several players just as good.  It was just the fact that they (Russell/Bird/Magic) had better teams around them.  In fact I think I will start a crusade to stop referring to those teams as Russell's Celtics or Bird's Celtics or Magic's Lakers.  It is obvious that players like Oscar Robertson would have led their team to much higher accomplishments if they had the same advantage of superior teammates.

BTW Hakeem in his 17 years with Houston led them to only 5 seasons of 50+ wins and the best streak was two years in a row.  They didn't even win 50 in their second championship season.

[WayOutWest]

You are right, Randy.  There was nothing special about Magic, Bird or Russell.  There have been several players just as good.  It was just the fact that they (Russell/Bird/Magic) had better teams around them.  In fact I think I will start a crusade to stop referring to those teams as Russell's Celtics or Bird's Celtics or Magic's Lakers.  It is obvious that players like Oscar Robertson would have led their team to much higher accomplishments if they had the same advantage of superior teammates.

In the case of Russell he had a big advantage over the rest of the league.  It was a credit to Wilt that he made Philly competitive without have the supporting cast that Russell had on the team.  Magic and Bird definately had great team mates but the league was alot tougher back in the 80's.  There was alot more talent in the league and it took players like Bird and Magic to give their teams and advantage cause alot of teams were stacked.  The 90's was the most watered down talent pool I have ever seen, the 00's has been a recovery decade but you can see that two stars can dominate the league so there is still some progress to be made.

BTW Hakeem in his 17 years with Houston led them to only 5 seasons of 50+ wins and the best streak was two years in a row.  They didn't even win 50 in their second championship season.

It is a tribute to Hakeem that the Rockets accomplished what they did with him being the sole all-star on their first title run.  At 6'10 Hakeem could be considered a PF or C, in either case I take him ahead of TD.

[Reality]

The 90's was the most watered down talent pool I have ever seen,

It is a tribute to Hakeem that the Rockets accomplished what they did with him being the sole all-star on their first title run.

If you watched this series, it was post one or two guys while the other three-four stood around the arc.  The most trey attempts in NBA playoff history at 410?  Vernon Maxwell and Boby Horry alone had 228.

In addition to a young Bob Horry doing 30 mpg, Otis Thorpe averaged a double double for the playoffs.

Hakeem was great, but he had help.